Why no M&P40L?

[Nemo]

They finally unveiled the M&P9L and the Pro. Why not a 40L?

No market for a 5" 40S&W gun? Like Glock hasn't sold any 35s...

Edited February 13, 2008 by Nemo

[Patrick Sweeney]

Uuuh, my guess would be production capacity. If you can only make so much, and the first three SKUs in the catalog (just as an example) fill that capacity, why announce more?

[dirtypool40]

yeah, with modern production techniques there's really no way to come out with more than one new model per year.

They can always go like Colt and just give us different grips and engraving without actually building a real gun.

[Bryan 45]

I can see the logic to this. How many of the 4" guns that have already been bought will be sold when the 5" comes out?

Introduce one model, sell 10,000 of them, then introduce a new model, so you can sell 10,000 more.

[SA Friday]

A better interpretation would be to compare how long it was from the release of the Glock 17 to the Glock 22. Anyone know?

[Bigbadaboom]

Because they like Production shooters better than Limited shooters.

[joseywales]

A better interpretation would be to compare how long it was from the release of the Glock 17 to the Glock 22. Anyone know?

If my history's correct, when Glock made the G17, the .40S&W cartridge did not yet exist.

Don't recall the "how long" between G17 & G22, but do seem to recall that the G21 was scheduled next up on the Glock production line until Winchester/Smith created the .40S&W cartridge - then Glock jumped right into G22 production.

Edited February 13, 2008 by joseywales

[J-Ho]

How many people are in USPSA? Of those, how many would shoot a M&P in Limited? How many potential buyers of a longslide 9mm are there who don't shoot USPSA? Gee, I wonder why they didn't produce a gun for limited shooters.

[pevadijk]

How many potential buyers of a longslide 9mm are there who don't shoot USPSA?

The rest of the world?

Here in Europe a M&P9L would be pretty cool (if it gets approved for production), since a Glock 34 is to long for PD..........and I might consider buying one if it gets approved.

[Cardinal]

Here in Europe a M&P9L would be pretty cool (if it gets approved for production), since a Glock 34 is to long for PD..........and I might consider buying one if it gets approved.

Its been approved per Vince Pinto on IPSC GV.

Pro is NOT approved because of the triggerpull

[Nemo]

Although my interest in the gun is definitely USPSA competition, we can't look at it as the gun being a limited gun vs the 9mm being a production gun. I understand we are a small fraction of their sales.

The longer gun could/would have other applications. Wasn't the G35 initially marketed as the TACTICAL length Glock? Laser-etch the word tactical on the slide of the 40L and every single mall ninja and his mom will want one, and while at it sell it to those that would really use it, like SWAT.

For crying out loud, isn't the 40S&W their signature caliber? Isn't the 40 (according to the gunrags) the most used LE caliber? I understand production capacity issues, but if I had my own gun factory with my own caliber (.400Nemo ), the first of everything I'd produce would be in that one. Make sense?

[ChrisStock]

Nemo, I hear you loud and clear, brother! My M&P .40 has been the single most reliable pistol out of the 3 I have used in matches over the last 8 months. Yes, it's tricked out for Limited, but I have used it in Prod with light loads.

On a side note, how about the technical specifications on the S&W site for both of the new M&P 9's, and I quote:

"SKU: 178010

Model: M&P

Caliber: 9mm "

That's all they have.... I would really like to see official S&W specs instead of the chatter through the grapevine. Mindboggling.

I think my M&P .40 can hold it's own against any of the S_I pistols at a fraction of the price. Sweet pull, very short reset, decent aftermarket sights, dead reliable. Zero match failures.... I can't say that about the FN I had or my current girlfriend, my CZ SP01 at this point.

The platform flat out rocks, and they have improved it vastly since it's initial inception 2 years ago. It'll come out eventually, and I should be righted financially when it does.

[NCShooter]

On a side note, how about the technical specifications on the S&W site for both of the new M&P 9's, and I quote:

"SKU: 178010

Model: M&P

Caliber: 9mm "

That's all they have.... I would really like to see official S&W specs instead of the chatter through the grapevine. Mindboggling.

I've attempted to attach a scan of on of the M&P pages of the 2008 product guide. There are a few specs there.

M_P001.pdf

[Madcap Magician]

My thoughts on the matter..

How many millions of rounds of 9mm are sold each year versus .40 caliber?

Sure the .40 is the choice of LE and limited shooters, but think about how many guns that may actually be. For law enforcement, how many departments are going to run out and buy new guns? While the longer slide is nicer, compared to rest of the US and world markets for handguns, the number that would buy a long slide .40 would be pretty small. For USPSA/IPSC, how many limited shooters are there? How many shoot a 1911 pattern gun? I don't think the long slide 40 is going to create a mass transition.

For Smith & Wesson, they're thinking how many guns they can sell. The fact is 9mm will sell more guns, and in the future bring out a .40 version. They just now got the 4" .357 Sig guns out. Be patient and the .40 will come.

[EricW]

I want a longslide 40 M&P too. But, I really wish the thread title was edited to *not* call out Ernest or Julie directly on the matter. They may get a vote, but I'm pretty sure that they are not the deciders on the matter. They are our friends and S&W, and we should be fair to them. Calling them out really isn't fair. How would you feel if it were you? Have a little empathy, brothers & sisters.

[raz-0]

Hey, I want an M&P40L with thumb safety personally, but I'm not going to get all pissy about it.

Lots of people look forward to the 9l, lots wil be looking forward to the 40l. Onr of them had to be first. The truth is they are both second fiddle to the variety of .45s coming out. Lots of first time gun buyers WANT a .45 no matter what you tell them about costs etc. Then they NEED a 9mm.

The 5" 9mm also should take care of them running odd barreled monstrocities in some countries, which ahs to have positive implications in producing things efficiently.

[Nemo]

I want a longslide 40 M&P too. But, I really wish the thread title was edited to *not* call out Ernest or Julie directly on the matter. They may get a vote, but I'm pretty sure that they are not the deciders on the matter. They are our friends and S&W, and we should be fair to them. Calling them out really isn't fair. How would you feel if it were you? Have a little empathy, brothers & sisters.

Eric,

My purpose was NOT to call out anyone. Becasue they are our friends it was more like paging Mr. Langdon and Ms. Julie because they are our eyes and ears within. But edited nonetheless to please ya', bro.

[dirtypool40]

A better interpretation would be to compare how long it was from the release of the Glock 17 to the Glock 22. Anyone know?

I think that was a caliber introduction issue. I heard G22's were actually the first .40 S&W pistol to market after the caliber roll out.

If Smith had any sense they'd snake some Glock sales figures and go after the ones that sell the most, and I"m betting it's something like G17, G34 / 35, and then 19 and the oddballs.

I want a longslide 40 M&P too. But, I really wish the thread title was edited to *not* call out Ernest or Julie directly on the matter. They may get a vote, but I'm pretty sure that they are not the deciders on the matter. They are our friends and S&W, and we should be fair to them. Calling them out really isn't fair. How would you feel if it were you? Have a little empathy, brothers & sisters.

Eric,

My purpose was NOT to call out anyone. Becasue they are our friends it was more like paging Mr. Langdon and Ms. Julie because they are our eyes and ears within. But edited nonetheless to please ya', bro.

I didn't intend to beat on anyone, or "call anyone out" but they do make some interesting moves. Like Colt and their $1200 WWII Milspec, shame on them. Anyway, at the risk of expressing an opinion, which has gotten me in trouble before , the .357 pistols are clearly for the "mall ninja" crowd that lets the gun rags tell them what to buy as opposed to actually shooting loads of rounds through them. Common sense says that cartridge is pure marketing and a BS answer to a non-existent problem. Someone sure does a good job of selling those things though... but I digress.

IMHO after the mid size 9, 40 and 45's the next deep market is Production, Limited, hankering for a long 9 and long .40. I guess they are hoping to capitalize on the "ready made" market with that custom shop / Elite gun, but I for one would rather have had a 40L at the same time as a 9L. We already have plenty of 'smiths and parts to make them rock.

And Nemo, I'm not pissed at Ernest or Julie, I'm pretty sure they don't control production.

Edited February 13, 2008 by dirtypool40

[EricW]

Hey Nemo! Thanks!

Sorry for the terse post. I lost my broadband connection in Atlanta immediately after hitting "send" ...

Anyway, I was going to add that if you get the opportunity to talk to Ernest sometime, he'll probably be happy to enlighten you about the business issues going on with the M&P. I know that just between the 9 & 40 that they have a HUGE # of finished goods part #'s to build and track. They're trying to be very careful about adding models because it's really a lot more complicated and expensive that you'd think at first blush.

I know that's not the answer anyone's looking for, but there you go.

E

[toddrod]

Not to high jack this thread, but, what is the difference between the 9L and the pro? I can not find any information their web site about this.

[2bigfeet]

Not to high jack this thread, but, what is the difference between the 9L and the pro? I can not find any information their web site about this.

The M&PL has a bobbed dust cover (fit the box?). The Pro is not approved by IPSC... http://www.ipsc.org/proddiv.php

The Pro looks to have comp sights and a worked trigger pull. Seems strange to have two different frames. Why not just offer both with the bobbed dust cover?

Model: M&P9 ProSeries

Product Code: 178010

FrameSize: Full

Caliber: 9mm

Capacity: 17+1 Rounds

Action: Striker Fire Action

Barrel Length: 5”

Front Sight: Fixed

Rear Sight: Dovetail Fiber Optic Green

Overall Length: 8.5”

Weight: 26.0 oz.

Grip: (3) Interchangeable Palmswell Grip Sizes

Frame Material: Polymer

Slide Material: Stainless Steel

Barrel Material: Stainless Steel

Finish: Black Melonite®, 68 HRc

Other Features: - 4-5 lb. Smooth Trigger Pull

- Novak® Fiber Optic Front Sight

- Novak® Designed Reduced Glare Rear Sight

- Increased Sight Radius

- 217-Round Magazines

Model: M&P9L

Product Code: 205301

Caliber: 9mm

Capacity: 17 Rounds

Action: Striker Fire Action

Barrel Length: 5”

Front Sight: White Dot Dovetail

Rear Sight: Steel Low Profile Carry

Overall Length: 8.25”

Weight: 25.2 oz. (Empty Mag: 3.0 oz., Full Mag: Appx.11.6 oz.)

Grip: (3) Interchangeable Palmswell Grip Sizes

Frame Material: Polymer

Slide Material: Stainless Steel

Barrel Material: Stainless Steel

Finish: Black Melonite®, 68 HRc

[Dave Gundry]

Not to high jack this thread, but, what is the difference between the 9L and the pro? I can not find any information their web site about this.

9L = Same sights and internals as the std guns.

9Pro = F/O front sight, plain black rear, and 4.5 trigger

2bigfeet - where did you see that they had different frames? I highly doubt they'll have a different frame when production time comes around...

[2bigfeet]

2bigfeet - where did you see that they had different frames? I highly doubt they'll have a different frame when production time comes around...

When I say frame... I really mean slide.

Check out the bevel cut on the end of the slide for the M&PL> http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/sto..._category=15701

There is also a "view product sheet" PDF link when you get either model's page.

[Dave Gundry]

Wow, good catch - didn't see that before. Looks like the radius cut is different too...

Wonder if they'll be the same way once the factory starts making them though...

[BNorth]

My thoughts on the matter..

How many millions of rounds of 9mm are sold each year versus .40 caliber?

Sure the .40 is the choice of LE and limited shooters, but think about how many guns that may actually be. For law enforcement, how many departments are going to run out and buy new guns? While the longer slide is nicer, compared to rest of the US and world markets for handguns, the number that would buy a long slide .40 would be pretty small. For USPSA/IPSC, how many limited shooters are there? How many shoot a 1911 pattern gun? I don't think the long slide 40 is going to create a mass transition.

For Smith & Wesson, they're thinking how many guns they can sell. The fact is 9mm will sell more guns, and in the future bring out a .40 version. They just now got the 4" .357 Sig guns out. Be patient and the .40 will come.

The US Military will be one department making a big order on new handguns. Caliber and platform hasn't been decided yet; but the new handgun will be a larger caliber than the current 9mm.