Points

[Flexmoney]

Ok...I think most have heard that we should hit 90-95% of points on a stage.

I have been going over some past match performances...seeing what percentage of the points I hit for each stage.

I was able to make some interesting observations.

Give it a try! look over past matches and see how you did.

Oh...and don't just report back that you hit xx%, share some insight!

[Jake Di Vita]

I actually did this just recently and that is really what kicked me into gear about shooting points...Not 100% sure but I think I was shooting around 60-80% of the points (average) in the matches last year.

I had always been under the impression that it took too much time to use your sights. Then when I tried it, I was just shocked. If anything it has sped me up now that I can call shots with certainty.

[Duane Thomas]

I've been doing that for years. After every USPSA match, I calculate the percentage of points for each stage, then average that to get a percentage for the match as a whole. It's shown me where I need to improve - which is speed, because, unless I totally screw up, my points tend to fall in the 90 to 95 % range.

[Steve Anderson]

I have done this very informally recently.

I just felt like I was getting a little sloppy early this season and the knee injury sealed it for me.

Jake is right. Calling the good hits gives speed and points.

I also read the Sevigny quote in front sight and took it to heart: "any time you're following the ro around and looking for your hits that's a bad thing."

SA

[Flexmoney]

OK...you guys are getting sloppy on this challenge!!!

Steer your mouse to some past matches.

Get a pen and paper out...and a calculator.

This is homework! Do at least six matches.

[Steve Anderson]

When you win the stage you get ALL the points.

I'll get the calc out and report back....

SA

[vluc]

Are you talking hit points or stage points?

Like Duane, I get in that range, but I am slow!! Insight...hmm...I "overaim" and don't trust the sights enough, even though I know they are there...i just hold a tad longer than I need to.

Moving...i have the target in the sights, just wait until I'm a touch closer.

Insight...I take a challenging shot versus an easier one, why..cause its a challenge!

Overall I guess the percentage tells me I am too cautious, I should trust myself more, and I don't let it "go" enough.

[Skywalker]

It's about 2 years now that I compare my stage results with those of the stage winners for each match I attend.

I do it just for learning: I really want to see where is that significant difference with the best.

I have available the MSS backups from each Italian championship match, so it's quite easy for me doing the stats with a self-made excel file.

I have noticed that the best Italian shooters do not comply with the 90/95 % rule. They seem to win stages with an 80/85 % A, 15/20 % C, no D or penalties (would you believe?).

My average on, say 1'500 match rounds in a year, is 70% A, 24% C, 6% D, and a minor percentage of penalties.

I sure have to get better in scores than starting with speed search, but I believe that reaching that 90% A would slow down too much everybody. At least, looking at the best shooters, it seems they have found a good balance with speed in the 80/85 % A.

The ability and confidence to call own shots, IMO, is the real key to speeding up.

I got this revelation once I was staring at a top shooter during Italian Nationals 2002: he smoked an array of 3 poppers at 20 m, and left before the first one had hit the ground.

Damn, I would have stayed there to see them all falling for at least another 2 secs before realizing it was time to complete the stage.

[Flexmoney]

Are you talking hit points or stage points?

I am simply talking about hits...I don't even care about penalty points. Pure hit points.

[OttoBon100]

IMO there is more to it than just points or I would be in the top 10 every time as I'm sure everyone here knows. I consistently shoot better than 90% of points BUT like vluc I am slow. IPSC is about speed! You can get away with less points if you are faster. Case in point: On one stage this weekend I got 120 points of 120 available with no penalties. It took me 32 seconds! Not uncommon for me. Winner, a GM, shot the stage with 115 points in a tad over 12 seconds. In the only match that I could bring myself to say I don't care if I get all A's, I'm just hosing the targets as fast as I can I moved up in the overall rankings 5 or 6 places from where I normally finish with a few B's and several C's. I have yet to grasp this strategy in IPSC although I've been shooting IPSC two years now. "It is acceptable for the the crook to keep shooting at me?" Just have to accept that this is just a fun game and not real world AND I still enjoy shooting.

[Jake Di Vita]

That GM won the stage with 95.8% of the points...IPSC is about speed and accuracy.

Try going with a little more reckless abandon. Yes you can afford to drop a few points to be 15 seconds faster.

[L9X25]

The following are my results from last weekends match:

% points % stage

Stage 1 97 91

Stage 2 96 100

Stage 3 90(fast) 100

Stage 4 85 78

Stage 5 93 90 (1 miss)

Stage 6 94 79 (magazine jam)

Not that one match is statistially significant but it would seem that there is a "sweet spot" between 90-95% of the available points. If you are getting more than 95% you are going too slow. If you are getting fewer than 90% of the available points you are going too fast. What do you think??

Leo

[megaman]

hey flex, i haven't had the opportunity or the courage to enter a lot of big matches or the foresight to log my results during my clubs matches just yet, (yep just call me an enthusiastic FNG) . the only big match (HI state championship 2003) that i shot and was able to get numbers for are such: points shot divided by points total per stage #1-97.2, #2-95.7, #3-97.9, #4-99.4, #5-98.2, #6-89.4, #7-92.7, and #8-92.3. for a match points average (1301/1365)=95.325% i was pleasantly surprised with my performance for my first time.

[Jake Di Vita]

"Not that one match is statistially significant but it would seem that there is a "sweet spot" between 90-95% of the available points. If you are getting more than 95% you are going too slow. If you are getting fewer than 90% of the available points you are going too fast. What do you think??"

I disagree...I know people who can go SLOW and still get less than 90% and I also know people who can just fly who get more than 95%. It all depends on your skill level...the better you are the faster you can do and still get all your hits. (simple isnt it?)

[L9X25]

Jake,

For the purposes of this discussion, I think that you need to establish a few "givens" like the fact that, before any of this can be significant, the shooter must be able of reasonable skill and be able to shoot 100% of the available points if they were to take their time and go slower. And yes ... you average GM or M will certainly shoot the same points faster than your average C or D shooter will ... that is another given. The purpose of this exercise is to learn at what point you shoot the best percentage against the stage winner at your current level.

Leo

[Jake Di Vita]

I understand that, I was merely trying to point out that just because you score 96% of the points doesn't mean you are going too slow. Regardless of your skill level.

[L9X25]

Jake,

The original challenge, if my memory is correct, was to post some data and see what the data illustrates. We can hypothesize anything that we want but the data will prove us right or wrong. I believe that if you consistently shoot over 95% of the available points you would likely be better served by speeding up until you are only able to get the 90-95% of what is available. Before either of us spend much time hacking at each other's assumptions, let's see what the data shows.

Leo

[shred]

(..reminding me to go work on my article some more..) points ARE time. On typical IPSC stages, every point is worth between a tenth and a third of a second, depending on your hit factor. The lower & slower you go, the more time those points are worth to you.

[L9X25]

I just went to work and did some more calculations from a slightly different angle. I looked at the scores from the stage winners from 20 stages at our recent local matches. I am assuming that the stage winner was "in the groove" since he did win the stage. The % of total possible points ranged from a high of 96% to a low of 87% with an overall weighted average of 93%. It was interesting that none of the stage winners shot 100% of the possible points although there were several people who shot 100% of the total points. Again, this is a fairly small sample (20 stage winners) but it falls within the range proven with the even smaller sample given before.

Just completed the same analysis on the Area 6 match. There were plenty of GMs in attendance and enough competitors that each stage was closely contested. The stage winner shot from a low of 90% of the available points to a high of 97% with a weighted average of 93.78%. Once again, NOBODY shot 100% of the available on ANY of the stages and won the stage. The numbers are talking...

Leo

[Ron Ankeny]

I suppose ideally one would like to have the most points across the target faces and the fastest times. I just calculated the per centage of points (hits) from our last match. Stage One 96%, Stage Two was all steel so 100%, Stage Three 98% and Stage Four (classifier) 92% for an average of 96.5 %. This was with an Open pistol. The last match that I shot with a Limited pistol averaged 93 per cent of the available points. I guess I really don't know what to make of that...

[PaulW]

L9X25....I think you make some very valid points. Just shot a match today and shot 91% of the total stage points.

Since I've been shooting this sport I cannot remember ever shooting 100%of the points on a stage except for an all steel stage. I have never done it. I usually hover around 88-96% range. Could I shoot all the possible points, sure I could but the time it would take would not be worth it. However I am trying to shoot as many points as I can.

Now when I shoot IDPA it;s a different GAME and I try to be down as few points as possible.

[L9X25]

Paul,

I know that I don't have to tell you this because we are always trying to tune our game and balance our speed and accuracy to achieve the optimal balance. While everyone hopes to shoot all A's, we accept the fact that we are going to drop a few points here and there. After I shoot a stage, I will check to see how many points I dropped and mentally adjust my game. Some days my hits are better than what I saw through the sight and other days my hits are worse than my sight pictures. I adjust my game by forcing myself to refine the sight pictures more on bad days and loosen up my focus on days when I am hitting well. If I start consistently shooting more than 95% of the available points I feel that I am wasting too much time. If I drop below 90% I am going too fast for the conditions and need to slow down and focus more. I believe that the statistics confirm that the optimal range is 90-95% of the available points and that is my goal.

Leo

[Steve Anderson]

I might make a minor adjustment depending on who I'm shooting against and what my current strength/weakness ratio is.

I feel like I have VOLUMES to learn about this sport concerning strategery and stage analyzation.

That just takes match experience, of which I have about two years.

Having said that, I'm reminded of Brian's quote, paraphrased:

The objective is to hit the highest scoring zone as quickly as possible. Your time isn't even secondary. It is what it is.

I gotta be careful with speed. My natural speed has never failed me when I get the points. Anytime I consciously hurry, my buddy Mike reminds me to knock it off.

Alpha -charlie is 80%, and we seem to be fairly happy with that on many targets. (major, of course)

Off to the match.

SA

[L9X25]

Alpha -charlie is 80%, and we seem to be fairly happy with that on many targets. (major, of course)

Steve,

Actually, Alpha-Charlie is 90%. (major)

Leo

[eric nielsen]

Leo is right. 90-95% of the points is the best balance. It's the kind of score you see Rob, Todd, and Jerry shoot day in, day out, every year.

95% works out to a C hit every other PAPER target. Not every target, and not every 5th target either. At a local match where one guy dominates and is also pushing for speed (read: Shannon), you might not see this balance in the winning scores. But with equal skill levels (at a tournament), you need about 95%.

Like BrianE wrote down 13 years ago, a D is never an acceptable hit on an IPSC target. Some local matches, a person who is not aware of how tournaments run, that guy might set up a stage that covers the entire Azone and some of the Czone too. But that's the only exception. D's hurt a new shooter worse than a top shooter, 'cus his D's are worth more time.

Just like D's are bad, so are make-up shots on steel. This is harder to see in the posted match results, you pretty much have to see it in person. Since time is the #1 priority for A, M, and GM shooters, I would offer the opinion that ANY make-up shot on steel drags you down from the best hit factor that you are capable of. More than one make-up for every 10 or so steel targets is too sloppy. JMHO.

dvc - eric - a28026