Jon Merricks Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 I havent seen alot of data here on Universal Clays. I came across a great buy on some and need some info. I plan on reloading it in 40 using MG 180gr jhp and lead 180 gr want around 170pf. I'm doing some reoloading for a friend using LC 200gr swc pf doesnt matter. Does anyone have info on Universal Clays. Why dont I see alot of people using it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipster Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 This is the loads suggested by Hodgdon from their website for the 40 S&W and the 45acp 180 GR. HDY XTP COL: 1.125" Powder grains Vel CUP ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ UNIVERSAL 5.8 1046 33,400 PSI Hodgdon doesn't list a load for the 45 with a lead 200gr SWC but this is what the do have: 200 GR. SPR JHP COL: 1.155" Powder grains Vel CUP ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ UNIVERSAL 6.7 930 17,200 CUP According to Hodgdon these are MAX loads, so reduce your starting load by 10% to 15%. BTW let me know how it works out. I've been using clays in my 45acp for a couple of years, and it works great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Merricks Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 I guess I should have posted before Im loading to OAL in 40 is 1.200 and 1.250 in 45. Thanks for the info Ship. (Edited by Jon Merricks at 5:34 pm on July 11, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted July 11, 2002 Share Posted July 11, 2002 Universal Clays is great stuff. Very clean. I use it in my .45. I think you don't see a lot on it b/c Titegroup is cheaper and more volumetrically efficient. Wish I had .40 data to give you, but I don't. E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Merricks Posted July 12, 2002 Share Posted July 12, 2002 EricW Volumetrically efficient? What do you mean? I have been using TG but I just came across some Uni for $10.00 per lbs. One time buy only. Thats better than the $17.00 per lbs Ive been paying for TG. Whats you load for 45? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiserb Posted July 12, 2002 Share Posted July 12, 2002 Tite Group runs about $15 per 1 lb can here in TX. It takes less volume of TG to make a load compared to UC. Make note that the TG charge weight in grains is greater, however the volume in cc's is smaller than the UC load. Cartridge45 ACP Bullet ManufacturerRanier Primer Federal Bullet Weight230 Bullet MaterialCast Bullet TypeLRN Bullet Diameter0.452 OAL1.275 PowderTite Group Charge Weight4.4 Charge Volume0.37 I use this load in my S&W 625 Equivelant Load with UC: Cartridge45 ACP Bullet ManufacturerSpeer Primer Federal Bullet Weight230 Bullet MaterialCast Bullet TypeLSWC Bullet Diameter0.452 OAL1.275 PowderUniversal Clays Charge Weight4.2 Charge Volume0.46 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted July 12, 2002 Share Posted July 12, 2002 John, That is a smokin' deal! Don't look back... I meant to say that it just takes less powder to get the same fps out of Titegroup than Uni Clays. For a max load, If it takes, say, 6.0 gr of Uni Clays, it takes 4.8 gr of Titegroup. (From Hodgdon's data. By the way, their max loads are pretty spunky, so I tend to respect their numbers.) For 45 ACP, I use the data direct off Hodgdon's site: http://www.hodgdon.com/data/pistol/45acp.htm I settled on 4.8-5.0 gr of Uni Clays under a 230 gr Laser Cast as a nice, pleasant load. I didn't chrono it as I didn't have a chrono at the time. I'm guessing you might have to pump it up a bit for major. Take care, E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted July 13, 2002 Share Posted July 13, 2002 The main reason that TG gives more velocity to weight is that it is faster burning. Another helpful thing in favour of TG is that it is a ball powder and US made. Universal Clays is made in Australia, and therefore shipped at great expense to the US. TG is much dearer here in New Zealnd than the local equivalent of Univ Clays. I use TG because it is BETTER, bugger the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted July 15, 2002 Share Posted July 15, 2002 Tested some .45 ACP 165 PF loads with thick plated Westcoast 200 RNs at 1.260" OAL using either stright H. Clays or Titegroup and mixed cases, WLPs, over the weekend. Out of an STI Edge .45, the loads were indistinguishable as to pereived recoil, sight rise, or recovery from 3 shooters who tried them both. No difference in shooting performance. There seemed to be a very slighty difference in sound - the Clays producing more of a "crack" sound and TG producing more of a "boom". However, TG was MUCH dirtier than stright plain old Clays and at 165 PF in .45, the TG badly "flamed" or blacked one side of every spent case (see related thread) - though this seems more of a cosmetic concern than anything else. Accuracy for both was good. Due to cleanliness snf reliability, I am sticking to my beloved Clays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Merricks Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 Thanks Carlos for the info. But I only need info on Universal Clays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paranoid Posted July 16, 2002 Share Posted July 16, 2002 My load for .40 with universal was 5.0grns with a 180 grn berry's plated @1.135 oal This would chrono out of my 5 inch bbl at 975 fps average. Interestingly the Universal seemed to be alot hotter than the load data from hogdon suggests,maybe it was the bullet I am using,it does shoot clean and I was happy with it. I have since been trying some VV powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gil Posted July 19, 2002 Share Posted July 19, 2002 I thought I was the only one that shot this stuff!! I love it, is fairly clean, readilly available and is effiecient in all my handgun loads.. I load the .45 at 5.5 gr of powder and a 230 gr precision bullet, power factor is 169 here are some more loads I shoot: .45 cal 200 gr swc 6.0 gr univ cci primer .45 cal 5.5 gr univ 230 rainier rn bullet cci primer .40 cal 155 jacketed flat nose bullet 6.0 gr univ powder small cci magnum pistol primers .40 cal 155 lead round nose 5.5 gr univ small magnum pistol primers oal's are according to Hogdon book The .40 loads are a little less than Hogdon recommends and still seem to be a little hot for my liking The .45 loads are all good IPSC loads and are all real accurate in my STI Edge This powder does real good in the .44 mag, the .38, .357 also I am sold on it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagop Posted November 11, 2002 Share Posted November 11, 2002 Jon Merricks, I have some data for you for universal clays that I have used myself in a Para-Ordnance limited pistol. It is 5.2 grains of Hodgdon Universal Clays and once fired Remington .40 S&W brass with an overall length of 1.135 using a 180 grain Zero bullet and Winchester small rifle primers and a crimp of .421. This load gave me 175pf in my particular pistol. Knowledge is Power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus The Bum Posted February 21, 2003 Author Share Posted February 21, 2003 I'm wanting to start loading with Universal for both revolver and .45 and need a load that makes 165pf (170pf max)in both a 1911 and 625. Titegroup is just too dirty for me, even at 170pf. Since I don't have easy access to a chrono, I need to make the best of my time when I borrow one. Any suggestions? Not much posting here about Universal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrf Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 My load data. This is in a 5" CZ 97b. 230grn Plated (Berrys) at OAL 1.260 5.8grn Universal for 168 PF 200grn Plated (Berrys) SWC loaded to OAL 1.245 6.3grn Universal for 167 PF 185grn plated (Berrys) SWC loaded to OAL 1.225 6.8grn Universal for 168 PF I have 230grn FMJ load data, but not with me. I'll try to remember when I'm home. I think 4.5grn of Titegroup got me there for 230FMJ just for comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paraman1 Posted February 22, 2003 Share Posted February 22, 2003 4.4 grains of Titegroup is what the guys I shoot with as well as myself are using . 4.2 will make major in some guns but is extremely dirty . When you bump it up to 4.4 it isnt nearly as dirty . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiserb Posted February 23, 2003 Share Posted February 23, 2003 I have tried to work up a Tite Group load, but it just does not have enough umphhh for 45 ACP Revo loads to make major and stay clean. I am woring on a load now using HP-38 and 200 LSWCRN bullets. The published data says it will make 170 PF, but I have to Chrony it to see. Make sure when you build your loads you take into account the ambient air temp for where you are shooting. If you shoot where it is hot (100 deg), or cold (32 deg) you will have a PF variation from the powder efficiency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus The Bum Posted February 23, 2003 Author Share Posted February 23, 2003 I tried HP38 and liked it, it didn't really stand out from the other powders, but a nice powder for .40 I use titegroup in my .40, but prefer a cleaner powder for my .45, that's why I'm looking at Universal. I made some test loads with Universal yesterday and took them to the range for chrono. I was kind of disapointed because it was a hard-shooting powder, I didn't like the feel of it. For comparison, I took some 165-170pf titegroup loads (.45) the difference was night and day. Titegroup, as dirty as it is at a lower p/f, seems to be the powder of choice. I guess I'll start taking a can of gun scrubber and give my gun a quick spray every couple of stages, small price to pay. Thanks for you'alls input Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paraman1 Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 I take a bore snake to the match with me and use it to clean the feed ramp and bore every 2 or 3 stages . I have used this for several different 1911 style pistols in both .40 and .45 with very good results . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAL Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 That's the problem with Universal it is Hard shooting for sure in the Calibers I use. I have like 24 unopened pounds of the stuff, And can not find a use for it yet, Out of a 8 pounder I opened I gave a couple of 1 pound sets away to some of the top shooters around here to see what they can do with it. Every one said they will stick to Straight Clays and N-320 over the Universal. And it is true Clays is also a night and day difference for softness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted February 25, 2003 Share Posted February 25, 2003 Rufus and KaiserB: You really owe it to yourself to try straight Clays in .45ACP. For "soft" recoil (read: faster shooting) you want a powder that is fast burning and Clays is up there with VihtaVouri N-320 at 1/2 the cost. You could use Hodgdon HP-38 or Bullseye - they are fast enough, but they use graphite or other coatings that make a mess of your gun and are no less expensive than Straight Clays. You will not encounter pressure problems with straight Clays in .45ACP at the 165 PowerFactor. People tha claim pressure problems with Clays are usually confusing its use in .40S&W (not recommended), not .45ACP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus The Bum Posted February 25, 2003 Author Share Posted February 25, 2003 Haven't tried Clays, will get a Lb and try. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRW Posted February 26, 2003 Share Posted February 26, 2003 Straight Clays is a pretty darn fast burring powder, check out this burn rate chart... http://www.hodgdon.com/data/general/burnratechart.php (Edited by GRW at 8:57 pm on Feb. 25, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 I used Universal Clays for a while and loved it. I was using it mainly for .40 Limited Major loads but ran into a problem a few years ago when I started loading out to 1.200" OAL. My extreme spread went through the roof. The load was 5.5gr with a 180tmj at 1.200" wsp primer. The round was averaging 945fps but the ES was 130fps. I needed to resupply so I went with TG and have had really good results with it. Same observations as the previous threads. UC is definately cleaner though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilTerry Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 In my STI 40 S&W Universal Clays with 200 gr Montana Gold FMJ Vel = 184.6X-2.884 200 gr Precision vel = 230.79x- 121.52 Where x = charge weight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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