Sunuva Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Shoulder holster, did we loose absolute ban rule on this? Or am I just way off on this. I thought in the old rule book it stated no shoulder holsters at all even for Leo’s or military. In the new book (blue book) rule 5.2.7.1 competitors must not be permitted except as specified in rule 5.2.8 Thanks for any clarification on this Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Robert, not if I'm the match director. Tie down or thigh holster rigs, sure if they retain the gun safely. Shoulder holster -- not happening, since it's bound to violate the 180 rule..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 ..... amen. Especially on turn-N-draws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunuva Posted December 30, 2007 Author Share Posted December 30, 2007 ..... amen. Especially on turn-N-draws. Im with ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Man that's BS, I just bought a Ghost shoulder holster for my Super. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Baier Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Man that's BS, I just bought a Ghost shoulder holster for my Super. Only you Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Robert,not if I'm the match director. Tie down or thigh holster rigs, sure if they retain the gun safely. Shoulder holster -- not happening, since it's bound to violate the 180 rule..... ? How exactly does a shoulder holster violate the 180 rule any more than a hip holster as long as it is in compliance with 5.2.7.3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Baier Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Robert,not if I'm the match director. Tie down or thigh holster rigs, sure if they retain the gun safely. Shoulder holster -- not happening, since it's bound to violate the 180 rule..... ? How exactly does a shoulder holster violate the 180 rule any more than a hip holster as long as it is in compliance with 5.2.7.3? Well for one, you're drawing "uprange" as soon as you pull your gun of the holster you're breaking the 180. or depending the holster cant you may sweep someone.. And don't forget about equptment placement, which is a whole another issue. Really, this is a no braner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 (edited) In my book no shoulder holsters period... I don't care if you have a badge or not... I don't want to be looking at the fire breathing end of no pistola no matter who is drawing it. Edited December 30, 2007 by JThompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Robert,not if I'm the match director. Tie down or thigh holster rigs, sure if they retain the gun safely. Shoulder holster -- not happening, since it's bound to violate the 180 rule..... ? How exactly does a shoulder holster violate the 180 rule any more than a hip holster as long as it is in compliance with 5.2.7.3? 1. Most shoulder holsters I see are horizontal. Do I really need to answer that question for this type of holster? 2. You're welcome to come to our match with a vertical shoulder holster and attempt to demonstrate during the new shooter safety check how you'll avoid breaking the 180. As far as we're concerned, once the muzzle has cleared the holster the draw is complete..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjlefty51 Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 At the end of the day this is a sport and as such safety has to be our primary concern. There certainly is a practical application for a shoulder rig but i dont see its application in this arena. I may be wrong and wold be interested in seeing how safety does not become an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Go to a Cowboy match,,, lots and lots of people have been safely drawing from cross and shoulder holsters for a long time. It isnt very competitive, Its called the cross draw twostep. Assuming right handed shooter , At the buzzer turn 90 degree to right draw gun turn 90 degree back left. For a turn in draw you actually draw then turn. That being said we have alot of cocked single actions so theres less margin for era. There is also a much greater potential for dangerous gun handling. I see no problem with a ban. I also see no problem with a MD making a local safety ruling. I am pretty sure MD's can make a rule more strict for local safety issues. However the blanket statement that there is no way to be safe with a shoulder rig is pretty narrow minded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 I am pretty sure MD's can make a rule more strict for local safety issues. No...not without a specific exemption grantd by the USPSA President. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Robert,not if I'm the match director. Tie down or thigh holster rigs, sure if they retain the gun safely. Shoulder holster -- not happening, since it's bound to violate the 180 rule..... ? How exactly does a shoulder holster violate the 180 rule any more than a hip holster as long as it is in compliance with 5.2.7.3? 1. Most shoulder holsters I see are horizontal. Do I really need to answer that question for this type of holster? 2. You're welcome to come to our match with a vertical shoulder holster and attempt to demonstrate during the new shooter safety check how you'll avoid breaking the 180. As far as we're concerned, once the muzzle has cleared the holster the draw is complete..... 1. A horizontal shoulder holster would be in violation of rule 5.2.7.3 and thus would not be legal so no shoulder holster ban is necessary. 2. If a shooter can draw from a vertical shoulder holster without breaking the the 180 then there is no problem with safety. And while I appreciate the invite Nik, I'm slow enough with a strong side holster thank you very much, I have no intention of wearing my vertical shoulder holster, but I can draw the 6" S&W 629 without breaking the 180. What I would really like to see is any equipment which can be safely used be allowed in the spirit of freestyle. I believe this used to be the whole idea of freestyle; to see what works best? We pretty much figured that out some time ago, but that is no reason to make it dogma. By the same token, I do not believe public servants should be given special treatment in competition. If a tie down rig or shoulder holster is allowable for any group it should be allowable to all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 In my book no shoulder holsters period... I don't care if you have a badge or not... I don't want to be looking at the fire breathing end of no pistola no matter who is drawing it. I could not agree more. Vertical and horizontal shoulder holsters virtually gaurantee the shooter WILL sweep their arm with a loaded weapon. While it may, technically be possible (in la la land) for a shooter to NOT sweep themselves on the draw with a shoulder rig, I don't think MOST shooters will manage to draw WITHOUT sweeping themselves. Shoulder hoslters are NOT safe and they should NOT be allowed in USPSA - even if it is technically within the rules for certain LEOs. Pointing a loaded gun at any part of the body is unsafe gun handling to me - particularly when it is only for the sake of sport. Is it really too much to ask that such shooters simply use any one of the thousands of safe holsters out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sestock Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 (edited) Instead of this turning into a 10 page rant of personal opinions, I sent a message to JA for an official ruling. Edited December 31, 2007 by Sestock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Instead of this turning into a 10 page rant of personal opinions, I sent a message to JA for an official ruling. Ya, but you know how we like our 10 page rants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 In the spirit of keeping this rant going, I put on my vertical shoulder holster for a 1911 and made a few draws in front of a pair of mirrors. It is conceivably possible to make a draw without sweeping or pointing uprange but it was only 1 in 10 tries & that was about a 5 sec draw. As an RO if a match director allowed a shoulder holster for an LE, then when the shooter came to the line I would ask the Match Director to rum them because I developed a sudden urge to visit the rest facility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 In the spirit of keeping this rant going, I put on my vertical shoulder holster for a 1911 and made a few draws in front of a pair of mirrors. It is conceivably possible to make a draw without sweeping or pointing uprange but it was only 1 in 10 tries & that was about a 5 sec draw. As an RO if a match director allowed a shoulder holster for an LE, then when the shooter came to the line I would ask the Match Director to rum them because I developed a sudden urge to visit the rest facility. That's better than a sudden urge after running them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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