Steve Anderson Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 How long can a mag extension be before it is in the path of the spread? I just put a 10 rd choate mag on my 18" 870 and it sticks out pretty good. I've seen photos of open scatterguns with mag tubes that look as long. I know the 870 is a poor 3-gun scatterblaster, but it meets my expert criteria: I own it. So, am i gonna shoot my new mag tube up? I would guess the spread is non-existent at 6-9 inches from the bore... SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 How long can a mag extension be before it is in the path of the spread? I'd be surprised if you could swing a shotgun with a tube long enough to be a problem unless your barrel is less than 18 inches! My brother has a 22 inch barrel and one of his tubes allows him to get 19 rounds in the gun and there's no problem with shot spreading enough to ding it. And it's not the longest around either! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted April 30, 2003 Author Share Posted April 30, 2003 That's what I was thinking, but the 18 barrel made me wonder, as the bushmaster site warned against it. I did it anyway. Thanks for the reply. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 One problem you have with long tubes is flex under recoil and muzzle blast, putting stress on the mag tube threads or the extension tube joint. You could conceivably break the tube. The other is powder residue, but that is only a cosmetic problem. Generally, spread is an inch a yard, so you'll have to have a tube more than three feet past the muzzle before you're getting in trouble with the payload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted April 30, 2003 Author Share Posted April 30, 2003 Pat, I put the barrel clamp on the same place as the old one. Is the flex issue more with pumps or autos? Is my setup unsafe? BTW, I plan to start complaining about the need for pump friendly course design very soon. :) :) I'm going to have the only open pump gun in Ohio! Got the 3rd gen. docter after breaking gens. 1 and 2. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyaboutguns Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 Steve: I have an 870 with the same configuration, as does a friend I shoot with. In two years of monthly matches we have not had any problems. Ron Sparks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 I'm going to have the only open pump gun in Ohio! You may end up with the only shotgun in Ohio that will run for a whole match without "tuning". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted April 30, 2003 Author Share Posted April 30, 2003 That thought definitely crossed my mind as well. It fits 10 2.75 winchesters no problem. Does anybody make a 2.5 shell? I'm a scatter-newbie... SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyaboutguns Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 Steve: As I understand the ATF position concerning magazine tube capacity for post-ban shot guns, a 10 round tube is legal, more capacity than ten is not. An arguement can be made, rightly or wrongly, that using shotgun shells of a length that allows more than 10 rounds to be loaded in the tube constitutes a knowing and deliberate attempt to create a configuration of firearm and ammunition that when used together violates the terms of the 1994 crime bill basn on, "Assault Weapons". Give it some thought before proceeding. Regards, Ron Sparks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 Steve: As I understand the ATF position concerning magazine tube capacity for post-ban shot guns,a 10 round tube is legal, more capacity than ten is not. An arguement can be made, rightly or wrongly, that using shotgun shells of a length that allows more than 10 rounds to be loaded in the tube constitutes a knowing and deliberate attempt to create a configuration of firearm and ammunition that when used together violates the terms of the 1994 crime bill basn on, "Assault Weapons". Give it some thought before proceeding. Regards, Ron Sparks "Post-ban" only pertains to self-loading shotguns, not pumps, and I believe the limit there is 5 rounds if you have a pistol grip (and 10 without). For pump actions, the only thing that would be affected by the '94 ban would be the tube itself (with a 10 round limit of course). I'm not sure if that applies to the tube itself or when the shotgun was made or what. Fo course, I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV. It's always best to check the laws yourself and if in doubt, get answers to your questions in writing on BATF letterhead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted May 1, 2003 Author Share Posted May 1, 2003 The tube came with an atf letter proclaiming its legality, with no mention of which shell to use or not use. I think once a device is legal, its legal as long as it stays in its current config. I have some .40 mags that hold more than 10 rounds of 9mm, and they are legal as long as they can still shoot .40. If they can no longer be used for .40, I have constructed a high cap mag. Same deal here, right? I couldn't find any 12 gauge shells shorter than 2.75 anyway, and the aguila minis may or may not work in an 870. I will try them eventually... SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillL223 Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 I believe USPSA or IPSC prohibits shells shorter then 2 3/4". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 The tube came with an atf letter proclaiming its legality, with no mention of which shell to use or not use.I think once a device is legal, its legal as long as it stays in its current config. I have some .40 mags that hold more than 10 rounds of 9mm, and they are legal as long as they can still shoot .40. If they can no longer be used for .40, I have constructed a high cap mag. Same deal here, right? I couldn't find any 12 gauge shells shorter than 2.75 anyway, and the aguila minis may or may not work in an 870. I will try them eventually... SA Right . . . as long as it still only holds the number of rounds it's supposed to hold, you're probably okay. Most people who shoot shorty shells roll their own. You should be able to find some recipes, but from what I recall, the guys around here used to load the standard amount of powder and #4 shot, but cut the hull down to 2.XX inches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nesbitt Posted May 4, 2003 Share Posted May 4, 2003 Steve, The tube on my 1100 sticks past the end of the barrel a good bit. It has powder burns on it. It holds 10+1 of 2 3/4 shot shells. Slugs, it holds one less. I have been shooting it like that for almost 20 years. Flex, Doen't be putting a hex on my shotgun. It runs just fine. Bill Nesbitt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted May 19, 2003 Share Posted May 19, 2003 flex is hexing our scatter guns now? ..... i'll tell my benelli that your really sorry for saying that! just FYI in 2 shotgun classes i saw more pumps puke than i ever thought possible, .... Anderson you do realize you have to shuck that action between each shot right......hehehe... hope to see you at the next 3 gun. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 uspsa requires 23/4 in shells. Provisions in stage desgine for pumpguns? Sure, and flintlocks too. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted May 20, 2003 Author Share Posted May 20, 2003 I'm not worried about it... An auto shotgun is in the future, but down the list a tad. I like shucking the action. Makes me feel like a real world operator. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike45 Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 Steve, Check out the Shotgun shooting questions forum re the short shells. Gamebore make 2.5 inch shells and thats all we use in the UK for 3 gun as you rightly pointed out that you can get more in the mag. Bill is right that USPSA state that the shells have to be 70mm - 2 3/4" for 3 gun over there. As for using a pump - the last couple of British Champions in practical shotgun have been pump users, and believe me the level is high who they are competing against. They are in reality about the only two who shoot pumps out of about 150 members of the UKPSA (regular shotgun shooters) but they are incredibly good with them and often shoot them faster that an auto. It really is a pleasure to watch, I would hate to see how good they were if they transfered over to an auto, an auto that keeps working that is. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Crazyaboutguns: Where can I find Info on the ATF position on the 10 round limit on auto loading shotguns. I have looked every where I can think of including thier web sight and can only find the old definition of " auto loading with 2 or more features, Ie pistol grip AND longer tube! Can a shotgun ( autoloading ) be made with more than 10 round limit if it doesn't have the pistol grip AND the tube was made befor the ban??? Can it be made with a gun on the specifically excluded list? Where can I get a copy of the excluded list? If anybody can help with this please let me know! KURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike45 Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Kurt, You sound positively worried....that modified benelli is not now a limited is it ?? I was quite glad we are in different divisions so I didn't have to suffer complete defeat !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToddS Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 You guy's can save yourselves a lot of time and effort for $49.99 Go stay in a Holiday Inn Express tonight!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 ToddS: Play nice or no sight for you!!! By the way the Holiday Inn Express in Raton costs $99.98 per night so you best be getting close to competitor housing!! To bend this back to my post, Todd do you know any BAT boys to ask? KURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 I heard this story through the grapevine. Brian can tell us if it's true. The story goes that Robbie, Brian and John Satterwhite got together for a day of training. "You teach us how to shoot a shotgun, we'll teach you handgun." They asked Satterwhite why he shot a Remington 870 instead of an 11-87. "The auto doesn't cycle fast enough," was his response. So R & B are goin' "Uh-huh, that conceited so-and-so," or thoughts to that effect. Then they put him on a timer, and they found out Satterwhite could in fact fire his 870 pump faster than they could fire their .38 Super raceguns. Like they say, "If it's not true, it should be." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 ...they found out Satterwhite could in fact fire his 870 pump faster than they could fire their .38 Super raceguns. Not to detract from the performance, but there's a trick to going Warp 9 with and 870 - at least according to my Vietnam vet friend. There's a way to modify the trigger mechanism so that the gun fires as soon as the slide is shoved into battery. Guys used to ask my friend how in the hell he could shoot a pump gun so fast. He just replied, "On the job training..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 The most important factor in being able to cycle a pump gun really, really fast is being born with the right body geometry. Having arms just the right length (both upper and lower) makes a huge difference and you can see it when you see a lot people trying to shoot a pump gun fast. Add the right body type to a lot of practice and self-loaders can't keep up. It's kind of like how a revolver can cycle faster than a self-loading pistol . . . if the right person is shooting it! I have exactly the wrong body type for a pump gun (short, thick arms and thick torso). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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