Smith & Wesson 627 38 Super

[rwmagnus]

I did a search and didn't find what I needed.

Can somebody fill me in on the 627 38 Super in terms of their accuracy and what is the preferred model dash number? I seem to recall there was a run of these guns (maybe the second run) that didn't shoot very well. Perhaps it's because a newer model can never be as good as an older model but then again maybe there is truth to this rumor .

The only Super I've shot was a 627-4 if I remember correctly and from memory it was fine.

I guess the 24ct question is a 627 38 Super more advantageous than a 627 38/357 (lets not start a war over this one)? It's basically a dedicated ICORE Open gun for me.

[S&WIowegan]

I think the only problem with the 8-shot 627 .38 Supers was the fact that the barrel is a .357 as you might expect from S&W. Since we all handload, that problem is easily overcome with .357" bullets. I had a 686 rechambered to .38 Super with moonclips and it shoots great.....with .357 bullets

It seems the real appeal of the .38 Super is the short brass leading to quicker reloads. You can attack this problem by using .38 Short Colt brass loaded to ICORE minor. You'll need Dave Hearth's tailor made moons for Starline brass too but that's still cheaper than a new gun But then, there's nothing wrong with a new gun either.

Have Fun, Bob

[coldchar]

I have the 6 shot 38 super so my comments may not apply.

When I slugged the barrel it confirmed what I had read somewhere else about the nature of that barrel. The Barrel slugged at a TIGHT .355 with shallow and wide rifling. This rifling is more consistent with jacketed rounds as versus lead. I shoot with some law enforcement types that said their Department could never get their Sigs to shoot lead for the same reason. My understanding is the S&W did not have the right barrel diameter for these guns and shipped them to Europe for barrel installation. I don't believe Europeans shoot much lead.

I have also read of good accuracy with a .357 bullet in the 6 shot 38 super, but I think that is the wrong solution to the problem and one is gambling with prematurely wearing out the barrel due to pressure and friction. I get decent accurancy with Ranier plated RN .356 151 grain RN behind 3.4-3.5 gr Titegroup. My gun is on its way back to S&W when I found one of my cylinder throats was way oversize. This appearently is a fairly common problem, so just for grins, you might want to mike your cylinder throats.

I don't have any experience with their later 38 supers, and maybe, and hopefully, they switched to .357 barrels as the prior respondent said. That would fit American competition shooters better.

My suggestion is you have the barrel slugged. How I handle slugging revolver barrels without taking it off is using 1/10th or 2/10th of a grain of Tight Group behind a bullet and shoot it at a safe back stop. It never clears the barrel and then I just tap it back out thru the forcing cone.

Edited December 4, 2007 by coldchar

[Bill Sahlberg]

The 38 Super is a novel idea for IPSC shooters who need a 165+ PF. USPSA will only allow a .40+ cal to make major except for the .357, this excludes the revo in .38 Super.

Since ICORE is a 125+ PF the 627 .357 makes alot more sense with the .38 Colt Shorts that was previuosly mentioned. I had originally developed the .38 Colt Shorts for my revo in 1997.

The Colt Shorts make this PF floor with no trouble, shoot accurately, and load quicker that the .38 Super or .38 Special, since they are shorter (1.100"OAL) The .38 Super is a much harder gun to resell as very few revo shooters have jumped into IPSC with this gun as the 625 dominates the field easily making major, very little muzzle rise, is very accurate, quick to load, and is a very popular caliber.

The 38 Super in a revo is a bastard caliber and I am not saying that because I do not like Super. My boys and I own several hi-cap .38 Supers and one of my boys made it to GM by his 18th BD.

BTW, I have shot many of the 627s in .38 Super, both when they first came out and just last summer with my 130 gr Montana Gold .38 Super at 1350 fps. Every gun that I have shot my Match Super ammo in grouped as good as any .357, .358 bullet I shot and these were .356 bullets. 99% of all pistol accuracy rides with the shooter and good ammo, seldom is the inaccuracy caused by the barrel or gun...usually it is the shooter yanking the trigger!

[rwmagnus]

You all make some very valid points. I own a 627-3 (pre lock) V-Comp. While I need to spend some time trying a 38 short colt load I'm not all that fond of the guns weight hence if going to a new platform my logic say why not a new gun? The 38 super is a short round and you don't have to deal with bullet jump of a 38SC in a 357.

I'm not all that interested in sellingit in the future however used 38 Supers seem to hold their value. I may sell the V-comp to help finance the project should I decide to do this.

I wanted to see if owners of 627 38Supers were happy with their guns first.

Bill.."The 38 Super is a novel idea for IPSC shooters who need a 165+ PF. USPSA will only allow a .40+ cal to make major except for the .357, this excludes the revo in .38 Super." Wonder if the new rule book gets IPSC and USPSA on the same page.

Edited December 4, 2007 by rwmagnus

[JohnRodriguez]

Bill in revo division, uspsa required no minimum bullet caliber to make major. If you can do it with 9x19, then go for it. In lim10 and limited they do require 40 max to make major.

smith used 1 button when they pulled the barrels for the supers, and if you can get one of the lower digit # supers then you barrel will measure close to the .357 that is assumed. My 2 supers SUP0174 and SUP0192 measuer .356 and .355 respectivly. Every time the button is pulled tru a new barrel you are going to loose a little bit more of the button diameter. My full lug 5" 38/357 627 barrel that smith only made 4 of them f, measures in at .354.

The only advantage that the super will have over the 38/357 will be that you are less likely to have a reload hang up on you when ejecting the moon. also if you clearene it, it will be able to run 9mm.

[1911 rookie]

If there was an advantage wouldn't Jerry M be using one?

you didn't say if the 627 was too heavy or light but if it's too heavy you might think about a Ti cylinder. I put one in my 625 when the stock one started skipping and it's a noticeable difference in many ways.

Jason

Edited December 5, 2007 by 1911 rookie

[rwmagnus]

If there was an advantage wouldn't Jerry M be using one?

you didn't say if the 627 was too heavy or light but if it's too heavy you might think about a Ti cylinder. I put one in my 625 when the stock one started skipping and it's a noticeable difference in many ways.

Jason

I meet a shooter on Sat that had a Ti cylinder in his 627 V-Comp and it made quite a difference. The weight issue is it's a bit heavy for my taste but I can live with it. Just looking into options at the moment.

***************

JohnRodriguez thanks for the info.

[Bubber]

rwmagnus, I shoot a 627-4. Serial # in the 400's. I don't know what the actual bore size is but I use 160 grain 357. It can shoot as good as I can see at 50 yards. I like the 38 Sper platform as the 38 super is capable of real soft shooting, even more than the 38 specials. I use Clays in the 8 shot super and use Solo 1000 in the 38 specials. the 627's are lighter than the V Comp and point easier for me. I have shot several 327's and 627's in 357 using the 38 short Colt and they felt nice and were accurate. Though I could not get the acceptable accuracy through my 8 shot 38 special. I had a 1 in 10 inch twist and that could of been a factor. Not much help huh?... Later rdd

[Waltermitty]

[snip]

Bill.."The 38 Super is a novel idea for IPSC shooters who need a 165+ PF. USPSA will only allow a .40+ cal to make major except for the .357, this excludes the revo in .38 Super." Wonder if the new rule book gets IPSC and USPSA on the same page.

I only see one (1) appendix (D6) for Revolver Division (page 78) in the new 2008 rule book. 165 is Major PF. Minimum caliber is 9x19 mm (0.0354" x 0.748").

Maybe we should be asking Santa for an 8(+) shot chambered in 9mm Luger?

[rwmagnus]

Maybe we should be asking Santa for an 8(+) shot chambered in 9mm Luger?

No MAYBE about it that's a hot setup...sign me up! S&W should be able to do it for $600-$700.

[revoman]

I talked to Lew Horton and to have a run of revolvers made takes some serious cash upfront. Basically if he gets a whim and he thinks it will fly he would have it done.

[Rogan]

I'm willing to prepay Lew Horton to have a 627 in 9mm.

In fact, I'd take two.

[coldchar]

rwmagnus, I shoot a 627-4. Serial # in the 400's. I don't know what the actual bore size is but I use 160 grain 357. It can shoot as good as I can see at 50 yards. I like the 38 Sper platform as the 38 super is capable of real soft shooting, even more than the 38 specials. I use Clays in the 8 shot super and use Solo 1000 in the 38 specials. the 627's are lighter than the V Comp and point easier for me. I have shot several 327's and 627's in 357 using the 38 short Colt and they felt nice and were accurate. Though I could not get the acceptable accuracy through my 8 shot 38 special. I had a 1 in 10 inch twist and that could of been a factor. Not much help huh?... Later rdd

What bullet and how much clays are you using for the 160 gr 38 super- Open or ltd gun?

[Bubber]

rwmagnus, I shoot a 627-4. Serial # in the 400's. I don't know what the actual bore size is but I use 160 grain 357. It can shoot as good as I can see at 50 yards. I like the 38 Sper platform as the 38 super is capable of real soft shooting, even more than the 38 specials. I use Clays in the 8 shot super and use Solo 1000 in the 38 specials. the 627's are lighter than the V Comp and point easier for me. I have shot several 327's and 627's in 357 using the 38 short Colt and they felt nice and were accurate. Though I could not get the acceptable accuracy through my 8 shot 38 special. I had a 1 in 10 inch twist and that could of been a factor. Not much help huh?... Later rdd

What bullet and how much clays are you using for the 160 gr 38 super- Open or ltd gun?

coldchar, I use 2.8 grains of Clays behind a 160 grain Billy Bullet, (Molycoat).

[coldchar]

rwmagnus, I shoot a 627-4. Serial # in the 400's. I don't know what the actual bore size is but I use 160 grain 357. It can shoot as good as I can see at 50 yards. I like the 38 Sper platform as the 38 super is capable of real soft shooting, even more than the 38 specials. I use Clays in the 8 shot super and use Solo 1000 in the 38 specials. the 627's are lighter than the V Comp and point easier for me. I have shot several 327's and 627's in 357 using the 38 short Colt and they felt nice and were accurate. Though I could not get the acceptable accuracy through my 8 shot 38 special. I had a 1 in 10 inch twist and that could of been a factor. Not much help huh?... Later rdd

What bullet and how much clays are you using for the 160 gr 38 super- Open or ltd gun?

coldchar, I use 2.8 grains of Clays behind a 160 grain Billy Bullet, (Molycoat).

Thanks for the information.

[Chuck Anderson]

Maybe we should be asking Santa for an 8(+) shot chambered in 9mm Luger?

No MAYBE about it that's a hot setup...sign me up! S&W should be able to do it for $600-$700.

Wouldn't do much good for USPSA. You still have to load every 6 rounds or say hello to Open class. And I say this looking at my new 627 chambered (by Pinnacle) for 9x19. Just waiting to get some clips for it then go play. I had the gun built for ICORE. If Smith would make a dedicated 9mm I think it would sell well.

[Rogan]

Hey Lawman,

Any chance we could see a photo?

[Waltermitty]

Maybe we should be asking Santa for an 8(+) shot chambered in 9mm Luger?

No MAYBE about it that's a hot setup...sign me up! S&W should be able to do it for $600-$700.

Wouldn't do much good for USPSA. You still have to load every 6 rounds or say hello to Open class. And I say this looking at my new 627 chambered (by Pinnacle) for 9x19. Just waiting to get some clips for it then go play. I had the gun built for ICORE. If Smith would make a dedicated 9mm I think it would sell well.

I would run it in Production and make bottom feeders cry.

[Chuck Anderson]

Hey Lawman,

Any chance we could see a photo?

Haven't figured out how to post photos but it looks just like a regular 627-5 PC gun. But with the chambers a little tiny bit bigger.

[Bill Sahlberg]

I would assume that 9MM in Major would act similar to the 38 Colt Short and swell so badly that the cases become harder to eject. I had these same issues when I was shooting Major in 38 Special in 1996 as these longer cases allowed more powder but were hard to eject just like the .357 cases loaded hot. I would assume 9MM in major is going to be hard to eject......I hope that Lawman keeps us all informed!

As far a 'bullet jump' from 38 Colt Short in a .357 cylinder, this is about 3/4" jump, I have never had any accuracy troubles as the forcing cone (funnel :-) is designed to help 'steer' the bullet into the barrel. A bullets accuracy is not dependent on the beginning of the barrel but is the last .005" where you may need to recrown it if you are having accuracy troubles. My 627 has over 60K down the pipe in .38 Colt Shorts and is still accurate at my 50 yd PPC loads and targets.

[Carmoney]

I had these same issues when I was shooting Major in 38 Special in 1996 as these longer cases allowed more powder but were hard to eject...

I've shot tons of 240 p.f. pin loads in mixed .38 Special brass through my old Baumannize Model 27 with no extraction stickiness. I still have what appears to be a lifetime supply of these loads in ammo cans in the basement. Not sure I want to subject my hands and arms to them all that much, but it sure was fun back in the day.....

[one-gun]

rwmagnus, I shoot a 627-4. Serial # in the 400's. I don't know what the actual bore size is but I use 160 grain 357. It can shoot as good as I can see at 50 yards. I like the 38 Sper platform as the 38 super is capable of real soft shooting, even more than the 38 specials. I use Clays in the 8 shot super and use Solo 1000 in the 38 specials. the 627's are lighter than the V Comp and point easier for me. I have shot several 327's and 627's in 357 using the 38 short Colt and they felt nice and were accurate. Though I could not get the acceptable accuracy through my 8 shot 38 special. I had a 1 in 10 inch twist and that could of been a factor. Not much help huh?... Later rdd

What bullet and how much clays are you using for the 160 gr 38 super- Open or ltd gun?

coldchar, I use 2.8 grains of Clays behind a 160 grain Billy Bullet, (Molycoat).

Bubber,

I'd like to try this load. What OAL should I try?

Thanks.

[shopgun]

I tried 115 and 124 gr. fmj through my 627-4 and had terrible accuracy, 8 to 10 " groups at 25 yds. I went to 147 fmj and tried star and MG. With tite group, PB and unique the groups went under 2" at 25 yds.I am now using 9mm cases with the same accuracy, BUT they have to go through 38 super Case Pro sizing plates. Now that makes a fast reload.

[Bubber]

rwmagnus, I shoot a 627-4. Serial # in the 400's. I don't know what the actual bore size is but I use 160 grain 357. It can shoot as good as I can see at 50 yards. I like the 38 Sper platform as the 38 super is capable of real soft shooting, even more than the 38 specials. I use Clays in the 8 shot super and use Solo 1000 in the 38 specials. the 627's are lighter than the V Comp and point easier for me. I have shot several 327's and 627's in 357 using the 38 short Colt and they felt nice and were accurate. Though I could not get the acceptable accuracy through my 8 shot 38 special. I had a 1 in 10 inch twist and that could of been a factor. Not much help huh?... Later rdd

What bullet and how much clays are you using for the 160 gr 38 super- Open or ltd gun?

coldchar, I use 2.8 grains of Clays behind a 160 grain Billy Bullet, (Molycoat).

Bubber,

I'd like to try this load. What OAL should I try?

Thanks.

onegun, mine are about 1.285 to 1.290 inches oal. I play with crimp and oal to get grouping after I get my velocities where I want them. good luck rdd