JThompson Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Okay, back in the day I used to do all the work on my cars. They have been taken over by computers and space saving engineers. You can't even get a hand in the engine compartment without some sort of special tool. I had a misfire on my Monte carlo and tracked it down to a bad plug wire. It's got 76K on it so I thought it was a good time to do the plugs too. I have a close look at my side mounted (grrr) front wheel drive beasty and see that it's next to impossible to get to the rear plug wires or plugs. Where do you think the bad wire was located? Yup, number 5 in the back of the engine. I can get a finger or two on it and that's all. I checked the book and is says to perform a, "Forward Engine Rotation Procedure" hmmm. I read on. basically YOU PULL THE BRACING STRUTS AND MOTOR MOUNTS ALONG WITH THE AIR BOX AND SEVERAL OTHER THINGS... GET A CARGO strap/come along and use a crowbar to pry the motor forward while taking up the slack with the strap. Ummm, I wanted to change the damn plugs not rebuilt the fkn engine! At this point the Chilton manual is lying on the other side of the garage and I go off to build the special tool. I got it off finally with a pint or so of blood. I needed time to cool off so I came in to type my rant before installing the new wire. I've got a "rotation procedure" for the engineer who designed this thing. Thanks for reading... sorry about the disjointed and caps lock issues... I wasn't going back to fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scribble Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 Okay, back in the day I used to do all the work on my cars. They have been taken over by computers and space saving engineers. You can't even get a hand in the engine compartment without some sort of special tool. I had a misfire on my Monte carlo and tracked it down to a bad plug wire. It's got 76K on it so I thought it was a good time to do the plugs too. I have a close look at my side mounted (grrr) front wheel drive beasty and see that it's next to impossible to get to the rear plug wires or plugs. Where do you think the bad wire was located? Yup, number 5 in the back of the engine. I can get a finger or two on it and that's all. I checked the book and is says to perform a, "Forward Engine Rotation Procedure" hmmm. I read on. basically YOU PULL THE BRACING STRUTS AND MOTOR MOUNTS ALONG WITH THE AIR BOX AND SEVERAL OTHER THINGS... GET A CARGO strap/come along and use a crowbar to pry the motor forward while taking up the slack with the strap. Ummm, I wanted to change the damn plugs not rebuilt the fkn engine! At this point the Chilton manual is lying on the other side of the garage and I go off to build the special tool. I got it off finally with a pint or so of blood. I needed time to cool off so I came in to type my rant before installing the new wire. I've got a "rotation procedure" for the engineer who designed this thing. Thanks for reading... sorry about the disjointed and caps lock issues... I wasn't going back to fix it. jim there is a black cast ring peice near the rear of the engine, take a small ratchet strap and hook it to that ring and the radiator core support. one they are attached removed the one or 2 front engine mounts(dog bones) then pull on the trap to roll the engine forward. they make special tools but most guys just do it this way. aint them fwd engines fun to work on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted November 12, 2007 Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 (edited) Okay, back in the day I used to do all the work on my cars. They have been taken over by computers and space saving engineers. You can't even get a hand in the engine compartment without some sort of special tool. I had a misfire on my Monte carlo and tracked it down to a bad plug wire. It's got 76K on it so I thought it was a good time to do the plugs too. I have a close look at my side mounted (grrr) front wheel drive beasty and see that it's next to impossible to get to the rear plug wires or plugs. Where do you think the bad wire was located? Yup, number 5 in the back of the engine. I can get a finger or two on it and that's all. I checked the book and is says to perform a, "Forward Engine Rotation Procedure" hmmm. I read on. basically YOU PULL THE BRACING STRUTS AND MOTOR MOUNTS ALONG WITH THE AIR BOX AND SEVERAL OTHER THINGS... GET A CARGO strap/come along and use a crowbar to pry the motor forward while taking up the slack with the strap. Ummm, I wanted to change the damn plugs not rebuilt the fkn engine! At this point the Chilton manual is lying on the other side of the garage and I go off to build the special tool. I got it off finally with a pint or so of blood. I needed time to cool off so I came in to type my rant before installing the new wire. I've got a "rotation procedure" for the engineer who designed this thing. Thanks for reading... sorry about the disjointed and caps lock issues... I wasn't going back to fix it. jim there is a black cast ring peice near the rear of the engine, take a small ratchet strap and hook it to that ring and the radiator core support. one they are attached removed the one or 2 front engine mounts(dog bones) then pull on the trap to roll the engine forward. they make special tools but most guys just do it this way. aint them fwd engines fun to work on. I didn't have a strap, so I just managed to change the bad 5 plug wire. I'll do the whole deal come summer. I also put a water pump in it because I, "thought" that's what was making the noise. As soon as I pulled it out I knew I had made the wrong choice. The old one was fine, but I went ahead and changed it anyway. I got a piece of lath out and set it on the other two choices, the power steering pump and air conditioner. I stuck the lath to me ear and sure enough it was the air conditioner. I guess I should have done that before. Better yet, just go buy the most expensive thing with a pulley and I would have been all set. They want about $300 for a new one.... I guess it's off to the junk yard for a $65 job. I'm thinking it can just howl it's way through the winter. Edited November 12, 2007 by JThompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 This is a prime example why I drive OLD cars. It seems most newer cars have evolved to a point where you just cant work on them. Or they are so difficult that a 15 minute job takes three hours most modern designs do not take into account any maintainence issues. New cars have all the comforts....but you sure end up paying for them sorry about your PITA Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted November 12, 2007 Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 (edited) This is a prime example why I drive OLD cars.It seems most newer cars have evolved to a point where you just cant work on them. Or they are so difficult that a 15 minute job takes three hours most modern designs do not take into account any maintainence issues. New cars have all the comforts....but you sure end up paying for them sorry about your PITA Jim Remember those old cars you could climb in the engine and stand on the ground? Now that was the shit! There was a vacuum hose for advance and that's it. Man, I loved those days... I could rebuild a whole damn motor for $400. Now I can't even buy a high pressure hose and compressor for that. Sigh/ I guess we're getting old Jim... 90% of the stuff I like was made 20 years ago. That goes for cars, music, and of course woman. Edited November 12, 2007 by JThompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvb Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 (edited) most modern designs do not take into account any maintainence issues. Have to disagree here, Jim ... they've taken maintenance into account alright... they design everything in such a way that makes even the most "do it yourselfer" have to take it to a dealer. And we all know the shop is where most dealerships make most of their profit. I can't imagine the two truths are a coincidence. -rvb edited to add: why is it when I pay someone else do the work for me, I end up going back and doing it right myself? I recently took my truck in for new brakes all around. I had let them go too long and I just didn't have time to get it done so I sucked it up and took it in. They didn't reassemble the parking brake correctly so now I have to fix that. On top of that I had them put in new tie rod ends. They didn't tighten down the lock nuts on the alignment arms so I had to go buy a 1-1/2" wrench to tighten up their work. It's only because I want to keep my criminal record clean I didn't go back and tell them what I thought of them. Man I am still pissed about it. I think the brakes and tie rod ends cost like $1200. Edited November 12, 2007 by rvb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 GM is known for doing stupid things like that. Plus, 60 or 90 degree V engines mounted transversely in a FWD car is just plain stupid. Half the plugs are next to the firewall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted November 12, 2007 Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 GM is known for doing stupid things like that. Plus, 60 or 90 degree V engines mounted transversely in a FWD car is just plain stupid. Half the plugs are next to the firewall. If the friggn engineers ever got out in the shop and either built or service some of this crap maybe they would design properly. I think all engineers should have a year in the shop building and repairing the things they are to design. It would make for better engineers and happier repair people. Remember the exploding Pinto? They also had a nice little starter design which required pulling a motor mount bolt and jacking the motor so you could get space to remove and install a starter. Lovely design that was all around. I guess what I'm saying is it's not limited to one manuf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted November 12, 2007 Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 most modern designs do not take into account any maintainence issues. Have to disagree here, Jim ... they've taken maintenance into account alright... they design everything in such a way that makes even the most "do it yourselfer" have to take it to a dealer. And we all know the shop is where most dealerships make most of their profit. I can't imagine the two truths are a coincidence. -rvb edited to add: why is it when I pay someone else do the work for me, I end up going back and doing it right myself? I recently took my truck in for new brakes all around. I had let them go too long and I just didn't have time to get it done so I sucked it up and took it in. They didn't reassemble the parking brake correctly so now I have to fix that. On top of that I had them put in new tie rod ends. They didn't tighten down the lock nuts on the alignment arms so I had to go buy a 1-1/2" wrench to tighten up their work. It's only because I want to keep my criminal record clean I didn't go back and tell them what I thought of them. Man I am still pissed about it. I think the brakes and tie rod ends cost like $1200. I'm with you on this one... it seems the work ethic has really suffered. It's getm in and out as fast as you can... somewhere along the line quality and pride in your work has went by the wayside. When I was working on motorcycles I used to fix them and ride every one of them. I made damn sure that if something happened to someone on a bike I worked on it wasn't from my work. A buddy bought a new XXX last year and he said, "It doesn't feel right." I tell him I'll take it for a ride and check it out. I didn't make it past one blocjk and I knew it was bad wrong. We pulled it in my garage and found out they didn't properly tighten the brakes or the front wheel! That's nice one a bike that will do 180mph..... The guy that sold it to him did get a fat lip out of that one. You try and kill me or mine and you get beat... case closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnhurd Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 I've got a "rotation procedure" for the engineer who designed this thing. Tweren't me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted November 12, 2007 Author Share Posted November 12, 2007 I've got a "rotation procedure" for the engineer who designed this thing. Tweren't me Sir, I never would have thought such a thing from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce282 Posted November 12, 2007 Share Posted November 12, 2007 I had a 91 Ford Taurus SHO. You needed to do a value adjustment at 60k miles. To do it you had to remove the intake manifold. $900 later it was done. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcarter Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Oh, brother, how I feel your pain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 I have been there. Lucky most newer cars dont need a lot of plug changes. My first fun car was a Chevy Monza with a V8. Quick for 1978 standards but the factory manual said "drill a hole in the fender well to change plug 8!!!" I found out a way I could do it with a few extensions and knuckles including leaving my own behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Might not be as pretty as Jim's stuff but I agree...old cars are so much easier to work on. I mean hell 3 wires 8 plugs and a couple of hoses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue edge Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 (edited) Okay, back in the day I used to do all the work on my cars. They have been taken over by computers and space saving engineers. You can't even get a hand in the engine compartment without some sort of special tool. I had a misfire on my Monte carlo and tracked it down to a bad plug wire. It's got 76K on it so I thought it was a good time to do the plugs too. I have a close look at my side mounted (grrr) front wheel drive beasty and see that it's next to impossible to get to the rear plug wires or plugs. Where do you think the bad wire was located? Yup, number 5 in the back of the engine. I can get a finger or two on it and that's all. I checked the book and is says to perform a, "Forward Engine Rotation Procedure" hmmm. I read on. basically YOU PULL THE BRACING STRUTS AND MOTOR MOUNTS ALONG WITH THE AIR BOX AND SEVERAL OTHER THINGS... GET A CARGO strap/come along and use a crowbar to pry the motor forward while taking up the slack with the strap. Ummm, I wanted to change the damn plugs not rebuilt the fkn engine! At this point the Chilton manual is lying on the other side of the garage and I go off to build the special tool. I got it off finally with a pint or so of blood. I needed time to cool off so I came in to type my rant before installing the new wire. I've got a "rotation procedure" for the engineer who designed this thing. Thanks for reading... sorry about the disjointed and caps lock issues... I wasn't going back to fix it. Okay, back in the day I used to do all the work on my cars. They have been taken over by computers and space saving engineers. You can't even get a hand in the engine compartment without some sort of special tool. I had a misfire on my Monte carlo and tracked it down to a bad plug wire. It's got 76K on it so I thought it was a good time to do the plugs too. I have a close look at my side mounted (grrr) front wheel drive beasty and see that it's next to impossible to get to the rear plug wires or plugs. Where do you think the bad wire was located? Yup, number 5 in the back of the engine. I can get a finger or two on it and that's all. I checked the book and is says to perform a, "Forward Engine Rotation Procedure" hmmm. I read on. basically YOU PULL THE BRACING STRUTS AND MOTOR MOUNTS ALONG WITH THE AIR BOX AND SEVERAL OTHER THINGS... GET A CARGO strap/come along and use a crowbar to pry the motor forward while taking up the slack with the strap. Ummm, I wanted to change the damn plugs not rebuilt the fkn engine! At this point the Chilton manual is lying on the other side of the garage and I go off to build the special tool. I got it off finally with a pint or so of blood. I needed time to cool off so I came in to type my rant before installing the new wire. I've got a "rotation procedure" for the engineer who designed this thing. Thanks for reading... sorry about the disjointed and caps lock issues... I wasn't going back to fix it. jim there is a black cast ring peice near the rear of the engine, take a small ratchet strap and hook it to that ring and the radiator core support. one they are attached removed the one or 2 front engine mounts(dog bones) then pull on the trap to roll the engine forward. they make special tools but most guys just do it this way. aint them fwd engines fun to work on. I didn't have a strap, so I just managed to change the bad 5 plug wire. I'll do the whole deal come summer. I also put a water pump in it because I, "thought" that's what was making the noise. As soon as I pulled it out I knew I had made the wrong choice. The old one was fine, but I went ahead and changed it anyway. I got a piece of lath out and set it on the other two choices, the power steering pump and air conditioner. I stuck the lath to me ear and sure enough it was the air conditioner. I guess I should have done that before. Better yet, just go buy the most expensive thing with a pulley and I would have been all set. They want about $300 for a new one.... I guess it's off to the junk yard for a $65 job. I'm thinking it can just howl it's way through the winter. O/K to start with,to replace the sparkplugs 1.1 hour. The A/C, the noise in the pulley is the bearing. This noise cause's viberation and heat both of these take the front seal out of the compressor. SO the fix is a NEW not reman, NEW A/C Delco compressor with clutch assembly The spark plug time is out of the labor book. The A/C well with out seeing & hearing, this is my best guess. Good Luck Kevin Edited November 13, 2007 by blue edge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Might not be as pretty as Jim's stuff but I agree...old cars are so much easier to work on. I mean hell 3 wires 8 plugs and a couple of hoses! Looks like a nice old muskrat...I like em...neat little cars one of my favorites to restore. Parts are plentyfull and not too over priced, and they are pretty cars!!! In all fairness...new cars are subjected to sooo many rules and have to perform to standards that are not allways reasonable. In todays world cost and ease of manufacture are the driving forces. and its not easy to put 10 pounds of crap in a two pound sock. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 (edited) Buy a deisel........No plugs or wires, just a whole lotta compression Edited November 13, 2007 by boz1911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted November 13, 2007 Share Posted November 13, 2007 Might not be as pretty as Jim's stuff but I agree...old cars are so much easier to work on. I mean hell 3 wires 8 plugs and a couple of hoses! Looks like a nice old muskrat...I like em...neat little cars one of my favorites to restore. Parts are plentyfull and not too over priced, and they are pretty cars!!! In all fairness...new cars are subjected to sooo many rules and have to perform to standards that are not allways reasonable. In todays world cost and ease of manufacture are the driving forces. and its not easy to put 10 pounds of crap in a two pound sock. Jim Yup. A buddy has a 70 chevelle ss and is always bitching to me about how I have it so easy with parts! I said hell if they made 2mill or something like that in 2 years of your car you would have them to :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBird Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 I HATE IT Got a warm day and said to mysel f" only 6 plugs - how long can that take" ---- friggin sideways mounted engines !!! I got the frony 3 plugs out and changed in about 10 minutes. THEN IT TOOK OVER THREE HOURS to change the back three plugs --- I had to lay completely across the engine , use a "combo" of extensions , swivle sockets , and a open end wrench ----- had less then 4 inches between firewall and plug wire boot -- had to "feel" by hand , use open end to crack loose , then get plug socket and "combo" extensions etc. --- was able to get about 1/2 a turn of rachet BEFORE having to pull it off on reset it as it was hitting crap around the firewall THEN , after carefully replaceing two of the rear plugs --- DAMN if I didn't get mixed up and repulled the 2nd plug AGAIN instead of the 3rd plug !!! I tried to get at them from below , jacked up car etc. etc. etc. GRRRRRRR !!!! Good thing I got more time then money I guess Oh --- to be able to have my 69 Firebird back -- now that was a car Gunfighter 123 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Okay, back in the day I used to do all the work on my cars. They have been taken over by computers and space saving engineers. You can't even get a hand in the engine compartment without some sort of special tool. I had a misfire on my Monte carlo and tracked it down to a bad plug wire. It's got 76K on it so I thought it was a good time to do the plugs too. I have a close look at my side mounted (grrr) front wheel drive beasty and see that it's next to impossible to get to the rear plug wires or plugs. Where do you think the bad wire was located? Yup, number 5 in the back of the engine. I can get a finger or two on it and that's all. I checked the book and is says to perform a, "Forward Engine Rotation Procedure" hmmm. I read on. basically YOU PULL THE BRACING STRUTS AND MOTOR MOUNTS ALONG WITH THE AIR BOX AND SEVERAL OTHER THINGS... GET A CARGO strap/come along and use a crowbar to pry the motor forward while taking up the slack with the strap. Ummm, I wanted to change the damn plugs not rebuilt the fkn engine! At this point the Chilton manual is lying on the other side of the garage and I go off to build the special tool. I got it off finally with a pint or so of blood. I needed time to cool off so I came in to type my rant before installing the new wire. I've got a "rotation procedure" for the engineer who designed this thing. Thanks for reading... sorry about the disjointed and caps lock issues... I wasn't going back to fix it. My dad used to manage a service station. They had a flat rate for changing plugs that was like $35 (back in 1969). Same price for the VW fastback models where they ahd to take half the back of the car off to get to the plugs.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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