Hitting The Mag Release

[Singlestack]

I DQ'ed this weekend at the South Carolina match.

I don't use an extended mag release because my left hand will hit it and cause me to drop mags. Since I can't reach the mag release from my normal grip, I flip the gun in my hand to hit the release and then flip it back. Well, as I flipped it back after hitting the release at the SC match on Saturday, I fired the gun.

This brought something to my attention that I had never paid much attention to. When I practice mag changing, I always do it standing still and the gun stays high and right in front of my face and my finger does not go back in the trigger guard until I have a sight pic again. However, I noticed that when I do a moving mag change, the gun ends up around mid chest level after I reacquire my grip and turned on its side before I stick the new mag in and because I have not practiced this during dryfire, I don't have a clue what my trigger finger is doing.

In this instance, I was leaving one position real fast on a move that required me to go about 10yds. I was accelerating hard and I guess I squeezed hard to hang on to the gun during the run and the gun fired before I had the mag even close. I know exactly what happened because it was caught very clearly on video. I don't know how I developed this technique and, clearly, it needs some attention.

I'm thinking that it developed differently from a static mag change due to the need to see where I was moving to.

This was my first DQ in a pistol match (I had one other a year ago with a shotgun) and it caused me to do some serious thinking about my moving mag changes.

I hope that sharing this with you folks can prevent the same thing from happening to you.

Where is your gun when you are ready to insert a mag while running? If it high, where are you looking? Do you look the mag in and then look where you are going?

[tightloop]

sorry about the AD and the DQ.

When you talk about AD's there only two kinds of shooters, those who have had them and those who will.

[wide45]

I want to do the reload leaving a standing position. I tend to bring the gun too low if I am already moving. Probably due to wanting to see where I am going.

I try to use the same technique every time. Standing, running, going prone, whatever. Hit the reload as soon as you call the shot, while you are leaving. It should be complete before you need to look where you are going.

[mcoliver]

I had a mag change AD once but it was during practice (whew!). I noticed this was brought about by my concious effort to keep my trigger finger from the other end of the slide stop (the stop tended to work it's way out causing the mag followers to skip over it). This resulted in my finger to be held too low and close inside the trigger guard but hanging in the air. Then one brain fart moment it got inside the trigger guard and lightly tapped the trigger...BOOM! Now I keep it really high and touching the slide.

[Jon Merricks]

This maybe a little off subject but anyway. My left hand was hitting the mag button too until I switched to the Dawson low pro. This also solved the problem of the picking the gun off a table to only see the mag fall out.

[Julien Boit]

Have you ever tried to press the mag button with the middle finger ?

That's the way I do and it allows me to not change my grip.

Of course the gun grip require little modifications and also people with short fingers can find this difficult (sometimes impossible) but , for me, it's working .

About the "run and change" I always try to keep the gun at chest level and I change asap before I start to run .

[davecutts]

I got the hands, so I don't have to change my grip, but I did ad once while changing mags, and now I reload with the safety on. I hit the mag release first then as I’m rotating the pistol for the new mag I’m on the safety.

IN fact I do everything other than shooting with the safety on.

[EricW]

It's times like this when I'm happy to have stubby fingers. I virtually *can't* do a reload with my finger in the triggerguard. It automatically pops out when I shift my grip to go for the mag release.

Julien,

Are you talking about reloading while shooting left-handed? Or did you put on an ambidextrious release?

[Singlestack]

I virtually *can't* do a reload with my finger in the triggerguard. It automatically pops out when I shift my grip to go for the mag release.

Mine pops out when I hit the release as well. Where is yours when you shift back (while running)? Thats when it happened.

[EricW]

Mine pops out when I hit the release as well. Where is yours when you shift back (while running)? Thats when it happened.

SS,

(I actually had to get out the blaster and run around the living room to check this out.)

My index finger pops right into the dish for the slide stop. My hand seems to rotate up slightly as I go for the mag release, which forces the finger to shift up and out. It's the same story while moving as not moving. Now, if hypothetically, the gun should rotate in my grip while running, I could potentially AD, but it would have to be a rough ride to make it happen.

I'm fortunate that I don't have to flip the gun either coming or going. It's just a shift in hand position. Could it be that you're using a really tacky grip and that's forcing you to "flip" your gun?

I just got a really whacked-out idea too. What if you took some meat off the left side of the gun here...

...and then reduced the grip a bit on along the path to the mag release. Think you might get any extra reach out of it?

[Loves2Shoot]

Eric, BE suggests the same thing in his book

[Duane Thomas]

When I shift the gun to hit the mag release button, I move my strong hand middle through little fingers on the frontstrap to turn the gun in my hand. At this point, my index finger comes WAY out of the trigger guard, and actually points away from the gun at a 45-degree angle. After insertion, it indexes (appropriately enough for an index finger) on the frame, above the trigger guard. I guess all that comes from, early on in my shooting career, being absolutely paranoid about keeping my finger off the trigger during a speed reload. Seems like a lot of wasted motion there, but I can get my reload down to about 1.25 seconds with a singlestack - I know I can do better than that - and I've never ADed on the reload. <knock wood>

[EricW]

L2S -

I'm also talking about taking down the bottom of the metal ridge that surrounds the safety. That part of the frame is unique to the 2011.

[Julien Boit]

Ericw:

No I'm right handed, and I push the button the middle finger of my strong hand.

I read once that this technique was used by Merle Edington.

The arrows shows the modifications I did on the grip to make it easier.

[mcoliver]

Julien, if I understand you correctly, you must have one very long and flexible middle finger

[Julien Boit]

Yes I do

[gm iprod]

I have an old Para (big) and a STI ( look to the left ). I use the system that Duanne uses, I have smallish hands ( makes willy look big ) and have to move my grip to enable a mag change. Trigger finger well outside trigger guard.

I don't seem to be slowed by this. I think I am move deliberate than I need to be and this slows me. Lack of practice is also a big problem.

[ErikW]

Eric, when I stippled my grips, I cut in a shallow thumb channel to make reloads easier with less shifting of the gun. It helps a little, not much.

[BigDave]

While we're on the subject, how many here have AD'd when going for the mag button? My first and only was that way with a HK USP with the ambi mag release. I have big hands, but the grip was way too long from front to back to reach with my strong hand thumb, so I used my trigger finger. Needless to say, the USP is no longer with us.

Have you thought about hitting the button with your weak hand as it goes for the new mag? Although I don't have my blaster here at work (they frown on that here), it would seem like your weak hand thumb or index finger could hit it. I sounds wierd, but it might work. It would definately keep your stong hand from moving on the grip.

Another option (although costly) is to have a left handed mag release installed or get a left handed frame. I believe that Lisa Munson does that on her SV b/c of her small paws.

[Julien Boit]

I know a shooter that do it that way.

We never experienced the loss/gain of time by using such a technique, but he's sure one of the top European shooter, so it shouldn't be too bad !

[EricW]

Eric, when I stippled my grips, I cut in a shallow thumb channel to make reloads easier with less shifting of the gun. It helps a little, not much.

The only reason I suggest it is that if I was committed to "the flip" I'd do anything I could to get more reach - including some pretty wacky reduction around the grip safety and such. I really have to screw my hand around when reloading my Glock, so I really feel Singlestack's pain on this one. It's not a fun or secure place to be.

[BradC]

When I started shooting, a good friend showed me a quick little rhyme that helps me get my reloads spot on.

Press the Button

Regrip the gun

See It

Grip It

Stick It

Use Matt Burkett's "Pause" technique at the 'See It' step and you'll nail your loads everytime. If you are consciously thinking 'regrip the gun' then you will (hopefully) put your trigger finger along the frame and out of the trigger guard until you are back on target and ready to rock.

Helps me a lot to think of it this way, give it a shot.

BradC

[Singlestack]

I was thinking more on this today and I think "flipping" is the wrong term to apply to how I hit the mag release. I think "aggressive grip change" is a better term because I don't really move the gun as much as I move my hand. I move my hand around the gun instead of moving the gun in my hand. I think that a lot of "top" shooters do this and a lot of people think they are "flicking" the empty mag out. IMO, the "flick" is a result of the grip change. I don't "flick", but if you were to watch me on video, you would think I did. I can do it fast enough that it looks like a "flick", but its not.

I completely agree with "looking the mag in" but if I were to recite that rhyme every time I changed a mag, I'd still be in SC ........ lol I try to never do anything "consciously" during a course of fire. Thats what practice is for.

[ErikW]

I used to think I was flipping mags out until I studied some video in slo-mo. It's just the effect of shifting the grip to reach the button that makes the gun move. Like SS described, I shift my grip around the gun to reach the button; I don't shift the gun in my hand.

[Singlestack]

I guess I should add that my hands are pretty big and I can almost comfortably reach the mag release. I can reach it without moving my grip, but its not easy to press it.

I tried Julien's technique. I can do it. Don't think I like it. Might have to give it a try though. It's so different thats its hard to imagine that it could be faster. Thats what I used to think about side saddles though......

I just had another thought on the "flick".

I used to think I flicked until I started to look for my mag to fall out of the gun. Back when we were talking about J.J.'s mag change video, I tried to catch a mag after inserting a new one. While trying, unsuccessfully, I remembered BE said he sees the mag fall out and I realized I was not. When I started seeing the mag fall, I realized I could control which direction it fell and thats when I discovered J.J's technique (or at least think I did), and I was able to catch the 3rd or the 4th mag I dropped that I controlled the direction it fell. I caught 2 in a row and never tried it again but I really became much more aware at that moment. For me, it was one of those major moments. It still amazes me how much my brain can see without having to acknowledge that it sees it. If I acknowledge the fact that I see the mag leave the gun, or the fact that I see the new mag go in, its on the floor before I seat the new mag.

ok. I'll shut up now. hope I didn't ramble too much.