SA Friday Posted December 6, 2007 Author Share Posted December 6, 2007 Oh ya, forgot to add it was Bigbadaboom's input that he used Comp with Precisions that got me thinking about using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shay1911 Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 4.1 Ramshot Sil with 145-147 Masterblaster made Minor for me. I don't remember any noticiable difference in recoil or smoke Vs. the VV N320. Both were very nice but slightly smokey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted December 6, 2007 Author Share Posted December 6, 2007 I don't think there is any way to completely get away from smoke using a poly/moly coated bullet, but after shooting the three different powders, I believe some powders smoke LESS than others. I was shooting these round at an indoor range too, not outdoors. Indoors, the effect of smoking rounds is compounded. I Started with TG to get a baseline of smoke off of these bullets. I think wishing for a load that produces no smoke would be a pipe-dream. I'm just looking for acceptable, as I believe most others are too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 If you like TG try 3.1gr of VV310 and a 147gr berry’s at 1.160, you’ll decide an extra $.008 per round is worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted December 12, 2007 Author Share Posted December 12, 2007 OK, so I tried some more loads tonight. I picked up some SR 7625 last weekend and just had to pump a few of the rounds out to see how the Precisions would work with it. I went off of Basman's reloading data. I made some with 3.6 gr and some with 3.7 grs. They are just as accurate as all the other loads I have been testing. They smoked about like the Solo 1000 rounds. The recoil was springie. Being a slower burning powder, I has a constant push through the recoil cycle. These had the lease amount of pressure signs on the primers and brass. They may have been the least amount of pressure sign on shot brass I have ever seen. I shot some more loads of Ramshot Comp, 3.1 and 3.2 gr loads this time. These felt a LOT like TG rounds in their recoil. They had a sharp snap rearward that burned out before the slide reached it's rearward movement. The smoke was the same as the 2.9 and 3.0 gr loads, a light amount of white smoke. Very nice. I still haven't gotten the opportunity to chrono any of these loads. When I do, I will post it. I can pretty much guarantee you I will be making a butt load more of the 3.2 gr of Ramshot Comp loads. I'm pretty sure they are making pf, accurate, and minimal smoke. At the very least, they will get shot up for practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted January 7, 2008 Author Share Posted January 7, 2008 Shot the RC 3.2gr loads at a match yesterday. No issues with accuracy from the round, but smoke was an issue. There was enough that targets on a stand and shoot towards the end of the COF were slightly obscured. I could get used to the smoke, but after shooting zeros and TG for so long, I could be overly sensitive to the smoke. Going to be trying Ramshot Zip, Ramshot Sillouette, and (sigh) N320 next. I'll update this with what I come up with. Hope to get some chrono time next weekend, but it's not a definate. If I do, I'll update with that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseywales Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 (edited) ...Going to be trying Ramshot Zip, Ramshot Sillouette, and (sigh) N320 next. I'll update this with what I come up with... You inspired me to try to find a better alternative than the TG/PB choo-choo. So, I bought a pound of Ramshot Zip & gave it a try - 3.5-3.8g, Precision Bullets 147g TC, WSP, OAL 1.140. Not quite the TG choo-choo, but quite smokey nonetheless. Tested N320 and N330 last year - again, not quite the TG choo-choo, but lots of smoke. Think I'll just go back to ignoring the smoke, and then tell my hacking & wheezing shooting buds to just kiss my ... smoke and then get their fannies downrange...to tape all those A's! Edited January 7, 2008 by joseywales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted January 7, 2008 Author Share Posted January 7, 2008 ...Going to be trying Ramshot Zip, Ramshot Sillouette, and (sigh) N320 next. I'll update this with what I come up with... You inspired me to try to find a better alternative than the TG/PB choo-choo. So, I bought a pound of Ramshot Zip & gave it a try - 3.5-3.8g, Precision Bullets 147g TC, WSP, OAL 1.140. Not quite the TG choo-choo, but quite smokey nonetheless. Tested N320 and N330 last year - again, not quite the TG choo-choo, but lots of smoke. Think I'll just go back to ignoring the smoke, and then tell my hacking & wheezing shooting buds to just kiss my ... smoke and then get their fannies downrange...to tape all those A's! That's not good news. I'm thinking based on your info that smoke is inevitable with the moly coated bullets. I will try the sillouette and see how it works out. I'll use up the powders sooner or later anyway. I might give them a try in 40 and see what I can see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted January 7, 2008 Share Posted January 7, 2008 (edited) I have been using (and selling) one kind of Polymer / Moly lubed bullets or another for nearly 10years. They have always smoked a bit, they smoke a lot less these days than they used to. And they certainly smoke less than cast lead with some kind of wax lube. Ball or flake powders seem to cause a little more smoke than Vihtavouri type powders, the slower the burn rate of powder the worse it is (at minor power factor). One I have had a reasonable amount of success is TG and Clays. The clays will smoke a little less but you are litterally playing with fire. The pressures are a bit high and minor power factor with 125grainers will be at a very high pressure. TG is a little more forgiving. Major loads (high velocity) seems to create less powder smoke but more bullet smoke. I figure because the load is now running at a higher pressure the powder is burnt up better. I tested this by using the same powder charges under the same weight JHP projectiles, whilst using a JHP will reduce pressure with any given bullet weight there was noticably less smoke using more powder. But pushing some Moly coated projectiles too fast seems to cause all sorts of problems beside smoke, leading being the obvious choice. But accuracy is usually poor, not always, but usually. Edited January 7, 2008 by gm iprod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted January 12, 2008 Author Share Posted January 12, 2008 After talking to some shooting buddies, I concluded I might have been a little hasty in my assessment of Solo 1000 in the inaccuracy if it's metering. I decided to try it out again. I found that if I do 20 or so test charges, the metering smooths out and gets more consistant. I'm an oddball and use an RCBS 2000 to reload. It seems a small amount of the powder builds up at the edge inside the measuring cup where it meets with the cast exterior and smooths out the charges and they become consistant. Anyway... after the smoke problems of last weekend, I loaded up 200 rnds of 147 Precisions with 3.2gr of Solo 1000 and shot them at a match in York, PA today. I am done fiddling. There was minimal smoke on a calm day, no obscured targets, no comments about puff the magic dragon or choo-choo trains. They have a very similar feel to them compared to TG and jacketed bullets, are accurate, and no pressure problems. I haven't had the chance to chrono anything yet, but I know this is Carlos' magic formula so am very confident it makes pf. It knocked properly calibrated steel over all day. When I get a chance, I will chrono and post. As for now, I am loading my black pills as follows: 147gr Precision 3.2gr Solo 1000 WSP or Wolfe small pistol primer 1.125 OAL I still think I'm going to tinker around with WST when I get some chrono time too and see what I can see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted January 12, 2008 Share Posted January 12, 2008 I still think I'm going to tinker around with WST when I get some chrono time too and see what I can see. let me know what you find with WST.. I got some old school 135 CP Elite bullets dumped into my lap.. some shooters down under are telling me WST is pretty nice with a 125 and 145 bullet.. curious what you find..I got some test loads up..hoping to run them at the match tomorrow and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted January 12, 2008 Author Share Posted January 12, 2008 I still think I'm going to tinker around with WST when I get some chrono time too and see what I can see. let me know what you find with WST.. I got some old school 135 CP Elite bullets dumped into my lap.. some shooters down under are telling me WST is pretty nice with a 125 and 145 bullet.. curious what you find..I got some test loads up..hoping to run them at the match tomorrow and see what happens. Will do. I just cannot find really accurate data on BE on this powder enough to make me comfortable working up a load without a chrono. The charge weights are up and down the scale compared to most other powders like TG or Solo 1000 or N320. I wouldn't mind hearing what you come up with on the 135's tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR Posted January 13, 2008 Share Posted January 13, 2008 SA Friday- Seriously... I know your aversion to VV, but tell me when you're coming home next and I will gift a few pounds of n320 to you, or pm me your address and I'll have some sent to you. You are conducting a lot of experiments with 9mm minor and moly bullets, and I would really like to know how VV objectively compares to the others. I love the stuff, but have only loaded various VV powders. Cheers brother. -br Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted January 13, 2008 Author Share Posted January 13, 2008 SA Friday-Seriously... I know your aversion to VV, but tell me when you're coming home next and I will gift a few pounds of n320 to you, or pm me your address and I'll have some sent to you. You are conducting a lot of experiments with 9mm minor and moly bullets, and I would really like to know how VV objectively compares to the others. I love the stuff, but have only loaded various VV powders. Cheers brother. -br I'll see if I can acquire some of that stuff around here, or I'll pick up a pound of it my next order of powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I have a 4 lb keg of Solo 1000 on the way. I will post some chrono results when it arrives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19852 Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Where are you guys getting Masterblasters? My link won't work and I can't find them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce282 Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Masterblasters closed their doors. You can try http://www.precisionbullets.com/ I'm trying their 147 grain 9mm right now. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted January 14, 2008 Author Share Posted January 14, 2008 Ya, at the start of this thread, MB's were still being made. About half way through the thread, there are references to MB closing up shop, so I tried Precision 'Black Bullets' instead. Joe D if you chrono, I would love to see the data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirpy Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 SA Friday, try checking out the WW reloading web site. I get there by typing in Winchester Reloading Powder. Follow the links. WW, Hodgdon and IMR share this site for reloading data. You can narrow your search to WW powders and etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted January 14, 2008 Author Share Posted January 14, 2008 SA Friday, try checking out the WW reloading web site. I get there by typing in Winchester Reloading Powder. Follow the links. WW, Hodgdon and IMR share this site for reloading data. You can narrow your search to WW powders and etc. Yes, thanks. They do not provide WST loading data there. A lot of competition loads are not found on the std reloading charts. very fast powders at low charge weights, and the manufacturers get nervous of liability... It will just take some chrono time. No big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullseye Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 I am guessing Precision bullets mentioned here are different the precision delta bullets? Are the Precision bullets lead? Precision Delta make 147 Jacketed heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce282 Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 They are moly-poly coated bullets. They call them the Black Bullet, as that's the color of the coating. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 SA Friday, My dad used to use WST for 9mm and Polymer Coated projectiles. We found that as soon as you build a safety margin for chronographing we got pressure signs we were unhappy with. I have tried this data in 3 types of 9mm and all showed higher than desired pressures. The velocity was as consistant as hell, accuracy was good until the pressure got up, we could just sneak past minor and keep accuracy but would hate to use these loads at an important match. Luckily for the old man he shoots Action Pistol and Steel so we can have safe margins for chrono there but not enough for Practical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 I am picking up my keg of Solo 1000 today. I will chrono some loads this weekend. I have 147 and 160 gr bullets to test. The 147 gr bullets are plated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted January 17, 2008 Author Share Posted January 17, 2008 SA Friday,My dad used to use WST for 9mm and Polymer Coated projectiles. We found that as soon as you build a safety margin for chronographing we got pressure signs we were unhappy with. I have tried this data in 3 types of 9mm and all showed higher than desired pressures. The velocity was as consistant as hell, accuracy was good until the pressure got up, we could just sneak past minor and keep accuracy but would hate to use these loads at an important match. Luckily for the old man he shoots Action Pistol and Steel so we can have safe margins for chrono there but not enough for Practical. Looking at the data I could find on BE, that's what I was kinda concerned about. I shot some 3.3 and 3.4 grain loads with WST two days ago, and was starting to see pressure signs. They were within acceptable levels, but I don't think the 3.3 loads would have made minor, maybe the 3.4 ones. I'm also finding lead in my barrel. I have reset my dies to bell more and crimp less, but many do you have to really dial in the dies to avoid tearing the poly coating. Hopefully, I will get some chrono time on Saturday, but it doesn't look good right now. It's snowing like crazy outside my office window..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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