9mm MINOR MB 147gr loads

[SA Friday]

OK, Zeros 9mm bullets are virtually nonexistant, and it looks like I will have to change bullets. If that's the case, I might as well go to Masterblasters and save some $. I will probably change out my barrels and go with Lone Wolf barrels in my G34 and G17. I've been using titegroup for the zeros, and this probably will not go very well with the moly coating on the MB's. Is anyone shooting MB 147's in 9mm Minor? What loads are out there and more importantly, what powder is everyone using? I would like to stay away from the VV powders, just too much money for them when there are other choices. Thanks.

[basman]

SA,

Just recieved my order of the MB 147's and have shot some (12) loaded with 7625. I plan on testing them with extensivly starting next week.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I shoot the Precision 147's in my G34 with the stock barrel. I have no problems at all. They are easy to clean the barrel. I have shot over 1200 rounds of these with no problems. The power factor I use is around 131 or so. Thanks, Eric

[mjbine]

Hello: I shoot the Precision 147's in my G34 with the stock barrel. I have no problems at all. They are easy to clean the barrel. I have shot over 1200 rounds of these with no problems. The power factor I use is around 131 or so. Thanks, Eric

+1 on the stock barrel with MB and precision using 4756.

[Trey]

MB user here as well.

34, stock barrel - cleans up easily, no leading

.357 (yup) 150 (that weigh 148, MB may be cheap but they can run light)

2.8 Bullseye

1.155

PF= 129 - 131

last time I chrono'd there was only 20fps spread between three shots, only 10 fps off the mean for the hi and lo. Best I've seen for mouse loads.

Most accurate load I've found with any bullet/powder.

Costs less, uses less powder, most accurate load to date, smokes a little but not enough to bother me, no leading.

YMMV, hope that helps.

[BR]

Hey Sean-

Hope your exile is treating you o.k. Coming back anytime soon? Let me know when so that we can catch a match when you visit.

Anyway, powder valley site shows that it has 147 fmjs in stock, but no hp.

I know you want to avoid VV, but I have had very good results with n320 under a precision 147 using a stock barrel. Soft and accurate, with a little smoke, but not bad at all. It really is not that much more expensive to use VV. Using the handloading calculator, I get the following:

3.3 TG [$12.50/pound] over Zero 147 [$85.00/1000, if you can find them anywhere] and primers at $20/1000, and get cost of $.111/round, or $110.89/1000.

3.3 n320 [$18.50/pound] over MB 147 [$65.00/1000] and primers at $20, costs $.094/round, or $93.72/1000.

When using only 3.3 grains at a time, the cost difference is minimal. Switching to TG with MBs, and you still pay $.091 and $90.89/1000, saving less than $3.00 per 1000. So, VV, at least in 9mm minor loadings, is not really any more expensive than TG.

I've heard of others using TG, Ramshot Competition, and WST, but I have not yet tried them. This weekend Akins was running 147 precision over TG out of a CZ, and they were consistently tumbling. Let us know what recipe you come up with and how it works.

Cheers,

-br

[ledavatar]

I've used them in my G19 w/ decent sucess. 5.0gr HS-6 @ 1.15 COAL makes 130PF.

[Kevin Kline]

Hey Sean-

Hope your exile is treating you o.k. Coming back anytime soon? Let me know when so that we can catch a match when you visit.

Anyway, powder valley site shows that it has 147 fmjs in stock, but no hp.

I know you want to avoid VV, but I have had very good results with n320 under a precision 147 using a stock barrel. Soft and accurate, with a little smoke, but not bad at all. It really is not that much more expensive to use VV. Using the handloading calculator, I get the following:

3.3 TG [$12.50/pound] over Zero 147 [$85.00/1000, if you can find them anywhere] and primers at $20/1000, and get cost of $.111/round, or $110.89/1000.

3.3 n320 [$18.50/pound] over MB 147 [$65.00/1000] and primers at $20, costs $.094/round, or $93.72/1000.

When using only 3.3 grains at a time, the cost difference is minimal. Switching to TG with MBs, and you still pay $.091 and $90.89/1000, saving less than $3.00 per 1000. So, VV, at least in 9mm minor loadings, is not really any more expensive than TG.

I've heard of others using TG, Ramshot Competition, and WST, but I have not yet tried them. This weekend Akins was running 147 precision over TG out of a CZ, and they were consistently tumbling. Let us know what recipe you come up with and how it works.

Cheers,

-br

Joker,

Yep, I had the same results last year when shooting MB or Precision black/moly/polymer bullets out of any of my CZ's. I tried Precision and MB out of 2 SP01's and 85 Combat and the CZ's just did not like them. I've been testing the last few weeks with MB and some Precisions (all 147's) with TG and had no issues at all. I was thinking about trying some of my 320 I had left, but the TG has been doing pretty well and no tumbling out of my G34 or G17, both with stock barrels. My brother in law shoots the same loads out of his G34 with KKM barrel and same results with no issues at all, pretty good accuracy and no tumbling.

I might try some of my 320, you notice any difference in smoke or accuracy between the TG and 320 with black/moly/polymer bullets?

Thanks,

Kevin

[SA Friday]

Eric, what powder have you been using and what amount?

Seems I will have an 'off-season' project. Lots of different powders.

Didn't think of trying these:

7625

4756

HS-6

Bullseye - hmmm, not too hot?

Was planning on trying these:

TG

Ramshot Comp

WST

After this thread, I think I'm going to try the factory barrel first. Seems buildup and leading isn't an issue.

Brian, I'll be back to CO for some leave 18 Oct to 1 Nov. BTW, if you look at the numbers you gave and combine the MG bullets with the TG powder, well, it looks like another 2000+ rounds for the same price. If I can get the TG to work and not smoke me out at an indoor range, I'm golden. But, I just can't see myself running around doing the Steve K. cho-cho train thing.

[gm iprod]

SA Friday

Try 3.2gr Tg under 145-147gr Poly Coated Lead (MB) I get about 920fps out of a Std G17. Start at around 3.0gr. Load to 1.130 max if flat nosed and 1.16max if Round Nose.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: My load is 3.1 grains Tite Group,147 Precision, 1.140 OAL, Winchester primers and crimp of 0.002. I use this in my G34 with a power factor of 131. This load is very soft feeling and very accurate. They do smoke a bit but I don't notice it ;-) Others do. Hope this helps. Thanks, Eric

[scheirere]

SA Friday,

I'm running 4.1 gr. of 4756 under the MB147's @ 1.135", to make a 135-ish power factor. I've also had sucess with HS-6 under precision 147's (@1.140" oal), but I can't remember the load off hand. I think it was 4.7 grains. This was out of my Glock 17.

I tried tightgroup and universal clays with the precision bullets but couldn't keep them from tumbling. I tried different overall lengths and ran the velocities up pretty high too with no improvement. I had to change powders to get the bullet to stablize.

personally I think the poly plated bullets smoke too much with any powder but it seemed really bad with TG. I still shoot it sometimes in my .40 loads and I get a lot of comments on the fog it produces.

Edited October 15, 2007 by scheirere

[basman]

an avg of 20 of the 9 mm Master Blasters weigh in at 145.55. they range from 145-146.9 with most in the 145-146 range.

Chrono'd using 7625 today

M&P, 1.150 OAL

3.7gr =128.5 PF.

3.8gr =131.7 PF

No Tumbling, smoke not an issue. Plan on using these for practice, reserving the Zero's for matches.

Next going to work up some loads using TG and Clays.

[revchuck]

I'm running 3.7 grains of Unique under 147 grain Precisions sized .358" (I originally planned to use these in my revolvers). Velocity is ~930 fps from my B92's factory barrel with good accuracy and no problems with tumbling. OAL is 1.14"; next time I may shorten it to 1.12". They won't chamber in my CZs due either to the oversize diameter or a too-long OAL.

[SA Friday]

an avg of 20 of the 9 mm Master Blasters weigh in at 145.55. they range from 145-146.9 with most in the 145-146 range.

Chrono'd using 7625 today

M&P, 1.150 OAL

3.7gr =128.5 PF.

3.8gr =131.7 PF

No Tumbling, smoke not an issue. Plan on using these for practice, reserving the Zero's for matches.

Next going to work up some loads using TG and Clays.

7625, hmmmm. I think I might have to start there, but I think I can back off the powder a little with the longer barrel. I will have to try it with Precisions though....... Man, I hate to see a good thing go away. MB web site isn't even up anymore. It's just sad to lose a manufacturer...

[Harmon]

too bad they are not making this bullet any more...

Harmon

PS. try the precision delta TC 147s, they are as good as zeros.

[Shay1911]

I use 3.3 VV N320 or 4.1 Ramshot Sil with the 145 MB. They both chrono at around 130 PF and make the cleanest round holes in the paper out of my CZ SP01. No smoke, no tumbling and soft.

[blsexton]

I have been using 5.1 Blue Dot, 147 Precisions at 1.080 for PF 132 aka 900ish FPS. FWIW my CZ75 is VERY powder sensitive with any 147gr bullet, and with other powders tested it would tumble really easily; BD seems to give me 'about' 2 1/2 inches at 25yds. Also, I have to load it short in the chamber to get enough freebore (I'm sending it back to CZ to have it opened up). Going to try TG as it uses so much less powder and seems to yield good results!

[Micah]

3.4g of VV320 behind a Precision 147 at 1.155 goes 138 out of my G34. Great load

[PJONES5]

too bad they are not making this bullet any more...

Harmon

PS. try the precision delta TC 147s, they are as good as zeros.

Harmon have you shot any Precision 124 fmj at major nine?

If so how do they preform?

pat

[SA Friday]

So, took some of my reloads to the range today (indoor range) to check out accuracy and smoke. I was shooting 147gr Precisions with an OAL of 1.125 to 1.130. I was shooting them out of my Glock 34. I loaded some up with Solo 1000, Ramshot Competition, and Tightgroup. All three were more than enough accurate for USPSA. They all shot more accurate than WWB. The tightgroup rounds were scary accurate. I shot multiple 5 shot strings with the TG and each group cloverleafed the 7 yard target. None of the reloads with these three powders grouped over an inch or two.

OK, the tightgroup rounds smoked like a coal stoked steam boiler. With that said, I could live with the amount of smoke it made but wouldn't be happy. The recoil impulse was exactly like my zero rounds with TG.

The Solo 1000 smoked, but not as bad as a cho-cho train. The recoil impulse was comparible with the TG recoil impulse, and didn't seem to have the same muzzle flash I get with TG. Very doable round. The only thing I didn't like about Solo 1000 was it was a little harder to run through the powder measure accurately. The granules of powder just didn't seem to want to consistantly give me the same weight every round. It was never more of less than .1 grains from my charge weight, but it consistantly fluxuated over a .3 grains range while loading the rounds. When I get a chance to chrono this round, that will tell if the fluxuations affected the Std Deviation.

Ramshot Competition smoked just a little bit, but it was a very thin white smoke and I doubt I would even see it outside. It's recoil impules was a little more push than TG, but hardly noticable. I believe I was shooting a bit too soft a pf on this round as these were my first rounds with this powder, so I might be able to get it a touch more snappy with .1 or .2 grains of powder. I really liked this round, and the powder goes through the charger soooooo nice. I'm really impressed with this powder, and I liked it with the Precision bullet.

I have some WST, but decided to not try it as it is reverse temp sensitive. I would like to get away from temp sensitive powders if possible. I might try it later. I might break down and try some 7625 later too. 7625 is very tempting to try, but IS a more expensive powder.

None of the powders showed signs of pressure, and they were all either proven loads from other BE shooters or mathmatically should have been around 125 pf. Unfortunately, I have not been able to chrono any of these reloads yet. When I do, I will update this with actual velocities and load data. Gotta feeling that I will be concentrating on the Ramshot Comp. rounds more than the others though.

[Shay1911]

SA Friday, what was your load with Ramshot Competition if I may ask? Did you get a chance to chrono it?

[SA Friday]

SA Friday, what was your load with Ramshot Competition if I may ask? Did you get a chance to chrono it?

I loaded some at 2.9gr and some at 3.0gr. These rounds were to initially check out smoke, accuracy, etc. All were 1.125 to 1.13 OAL. I think I would go 3.1 to 3.2 for actual match loads. The were not even close to high pressure based on case and primer inspection. I have not had an opportunity to shoot them over a chrono yet. As soon as I get a chance, I will update this thread with the acutal data.

I can say though that I really liked the powder and the comparitive lack of smoke from them with the precision bullets.

[joseywales]

SA Friday, what was your load with Ramshot Competition if I may ask? Did you get a chance to chrono it?

I loaded some at 2.9gr and some at 3.0gr. These rounds were to initially check out smoke, accuracy, etc. All were 1.125 to 1.13 OAL. I think I would go 3.1 to 3.2 for actual match loads. The were not even close to high pressure based on case and primer inspection. I have not had an opportunity to shoot them over a chrono yet. As soon as I get a chance, I will update this thread with the acutal data.

I can say though that I really liked the powder and the comparitive lack of smoke from them with the precision bullets.

Sean,

Thanks for doing the powder/load research. I've been wondering when someone would take the time to find a replacement powder for the "smoke-train" Titegroup that I've been using for Precision 147's. Ramshot sounds promising.

David Long has told me for a while now that the Titegroup was probably just too hot, hence that's probably why I experience so much smoke. BTW, I tested with N320...not much noticeable difference, so it surprises me that the Competition powder is significantly less smokey.

Couple of questions - Any reason why Ramshot Competition vs. Ramshot Zip or Silhouette? The Competition is labeled as a ShotShell powder while the others are Handgun powders - on the Ramshot website. Maybe that's just for marketing purposes?

Here's the burn rates from the Ramshot site.

10. Hodgdon Titegroup

15. Vihta Vuori N320

16. Ramshot Competition

23. Ramshot Zip

27. Vihta Vuori N330

39. Ramshot Silhouette

41. Vihta Vuori N340

47. Vihta Vuori 3N37

52. Ramshot Tru Blu

[SA Friday]

I was trying to continue to use as fast a powder as possible and yet still not produce smoke from excessive heat on the back of the bullet. The reason I tried this is to mimmic the recoil impulse of TG as much as possible. TG to me feels like a quick jab and then there is no more push in the gun. It makes split recovery very easy and fast. I use Universal Clays in my 40 cal rounds and they are a very different recoil impulse; they are more of a prolonged push with a gradual ending to the impulse. Recovery is still fairly fast, but it's different from TG and takes time to readjust to when I shoot. So, If I can keep the recoil as similar to TG as possible the change to Precisions will impact my shooting less.

I will probably end up trying some of the other Ramshot powders later along with some of the other slower burning powders and see what I can see. Zip is the one that kinda intrigues me. There is very little out there on it, it has a slower burn rate, and if it charges as nice as Comp, it could be a really good powder for Precisions in 9mm AND 40S&W, at least for me. I have never been a fan of the low charge amounts of the uber fast powders in the 40 case. The double charge is just that much harder to see while reloading.

As for it being a shotgun powder, ya, it was designed for that, but so were a lot of the powders commonly being used for our shooting. Clays and Universal Clays are without a doubt designed for shotgun shells, but damned if they are not some of the best handgun powders out there too. Essentially, the burn rates are in the same area for both shells and pistols.

Comps still smoked when I shot it, but it appeared to be much less than Solo 1000, and undoubtedly less than TG. I didn't get muzzle flash off of the Comp either. TG always flashed.