Fireant Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 I would like to see IDPA add a 15+1 round division. It would be nice to be able to run a standard capacity mag fully loaded(like I carry it) in a match. How many people would be interested in shooting it? Hell it could even be a 17+1 division as both 9mm and .40 can get there and still fit in the box. 15 would let 45 play also. Let that division follow the ESP rules as it would be open for SA or DA you choose. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemo Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 I would like to see IDPA add a 15+1 round division. It would be nice to be able to run a standard capacity mag fully loaded(like I carry it) in a match. How many people would be interested in shooting it? Hell it could even be a 17+1 division as both 9mm and .40 can get there and still fit in the box. 15 would let 45 play also. Let that division follow the ESP rules as it would be open for SA or DA you choose. Just a thought. Fireant, I'd say there's no need to stipulate mag capacity. As long as it fits the box, run it to factory capacity. Sounds good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireant Posted October 1, 2007 Author Share Posted October 1, 2007 Well, if you don't make a limit then you rule out some calibers. Kind of like IPSC production has become a 9mm game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemo Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Well, if you don't make a limit then you rule out some calibers. Kind of like IPSC production has become a 9mm game. Then again, if you limit capacity it'll be just another version of what is already there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce282 Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Not going to happen for the same reason Production and L10 are 10 rounds. There are states that don't allow hi-cap mags. The shooters in those states would have to break the law to shoot that division, not a good idea since I'm sure the penalties are pretty stiff. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberneck Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 (edited) God, I hope they don't add another division. I don't see the point of having a high cap division. IMHO it doesn't add anything of value to the sport, while at the same time it marginalizes the valuable skill of reloading on 80% of IDPA stages. If they do add one I would prefer that they recognize, true compact carry guns, with barrels 3.5 inches and shorter. Edited October 1, 2007 by rubberneck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireant Posted October 1, 2007 Author Share Posted October 1, 2007 10 round states could not shoot that division. If IDPA is suppose to test some real life skills, why would using a standard capacity mag make problems. I think being programed to reload after 10 rounds is a bad thing when I carry a 17+ round gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberneck Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 10 round states could not shoot that division. If IDPA is suppose to test some real life skills, why would using a standard capacity mag make problems. I think being programed to reload after 10 rounds is a bad thing when I carry a 17+ round gun. IDPA is indeed supposed to test real life skills. Those skills include being able to shoot quickly and accurately but it doesn't stop there. It also tests gun handling skills, and being able to reload a gun quickly clearly is a skill of immense importance. Allowing shooters to start a stage with 15+1 marginalizes that skill on 80% of IDPA stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireant Posted October 1, 2007 Author Share Posted October 1, 2007 True, but how many rounds does the average shooting involve? Way less than a magazine full is my guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDM Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 I like the idea, but wonder if it wouldn't spread the competitor pool too thin at some clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbadaboom Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 God, I hope they don't add another division. I don't see the point of having a high cap division. IMHO it doesn't add anything of value to the sport, while at the same time it marginalizes the valuable skill of reloading on 80% of IDPA stages. If they do add one I would prefer that they recognize, true compact carry guns, with barrels 3.5 inches and shorter. I believe it would add a little bit of realism to the stage since it's supposed to be "Defense of Life" situational stages. I carry an M&P compact with 13 rounds or a full size with 19 rounds (All my 17 round mags hold 18). I never "Down load" my mags for defensive carry so why would I want to "Down load" them to practice defensive use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberneck Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 God, I hope they don't add another division. I don't see the point of having a high cap division. IMHO it doesn't add anything of value to the sport, while at the same time it marginalizes the valuable skill of reloading on 80% of IDPA stages. If they do add one I would prefer that they recognize, true compact carry guns, with barrels 3.5 inches and shorter. I believe it would add a little bit of realism to the stage since it's supposed to be "Defense of Life" situational stages. I carry an M&P compact with 13 rounds or a full size with 19 rounds (All my 17 round mags hold 18). I never "Down load" my mags for defensive carry so why would I want to "Down load" them to practice defensive use? Using your logic if I carry a Wilson Carry comp should I be allowed to use it in CDP? I am sure someone out there carries a gun with a Doctor sight on it or a SVI wide body with a giant magwell and tungsten guide rod. The sport can't be all things to all people otherwise it would become an unmitigated disaster. The second you draw a line in the sand someone will come along and question the rationale for putting that line in that particular place. I don't think anyone wants to be involved in a sport where the line moves from year to year. I know I wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbadaboom Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 (edited) Using your logic if I carry a Wilson Carry comp should I be allowed to use it in CDP? I am sure someone out there carries a gun with a Doctor sight on it or a SVI wide body with a giant magwell and tungsten guide rod. The sport can't be all things to all people otherwise it would become an unmitigated disaster. The second you draw a line in the sand someone will come along and question the rationale for putting that line in that particular place. I don't think anyone wants to be involved in a sport where the line moves from year to year. I know I wouldn't. I'm sure that there are a few that carry with a Doctor sight and a few that carry a Wilson Comp and a few that carry Wide bodies with magwells but they are exceptions to the basic defense gun and not the norm when taken into consideration among all defensive carriers. I don't now anyone who "Down loads" their mags for defensive carry and if they do then 'they' are the exception to the norm. A Glock 17 loaded with 19 rounds has to be a very high % among defensive carriers. If they aren't going to allow people to shoot what they normally carry for Defensive situations then I don't believe it should be called "International Defensive Pistol Association" No more than it should be called this if they let people shoot Open guns. I'm not knocking/bashing the sport. It gets people out shooting and I have fun when I shoot it. I'm just trying to present a logical point for the opening post. Edited October 1, 2007 by Bigbadaboom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markm Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 God, I hope they don't add another division. I don't see the point of having a high cap division. IMHO it doesn't add anything of value to the sport, while at the same time it marginalizes the valuable skill of reloading on 80% of IDPA stages. If they do add one I would prefer that they recognize, true compact carry guns, with barrels 3.5 inches and shorter. They have already marginalized speed as a tactic and skill........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayonaise Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 About 2 years late for this debate. It's not going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 The Wilson comp gun was built to be a carry gun as was the Tactical Elite 5". Neither of these guns can be used for IDPA. Fireant you can start a new discipline HCDPA. I will shoot it with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doublehaul Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 It wouldn't have happened anyway. IDPA is supposed to be a test of your skill not a testament to your magazine capacity. If we added a new 15 + 1 division, nobody would shoot CDP, ESP or SSP anymore and skill levels would drop. Why not add a Custom Defensive Revolver to include 8-shooters and 5" barrels again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Fireant wrote: 10 round states could not shoot that division. If IDPA is suppose to test some real life skills, why would using a standard capacity mag make problems. I think being programed to reload after 10 rounds is a bad thing when I carry a 17+ round gun. I hope I am never put into that "$hit hit the fan" position. Whether my gun holds 10+1 or 17+1, I have this "inkling" that I'll be shooting to slide lock no matter what. "After action reports" of police involved shootings supposedly show that the cop(s) in question kept firing until the gun went to slide lock. The LEO didn't count rounds and/or targets. Just kept going until the gun was dry. And I bet was still in lemon squeezer mode until he/she realized the gun was empty/at slide lock. Fireant also wrote: True, but how many rounds does the average shooting involve? Way less than a magazine full is my guess. Ah... um... I couldn't tell you. Again supposedly, with LE involved shootings only 20% of the rounds fired by cops hit their intended targets. I don't think this new division will ever come to fruition. It's that whole "equipment" race thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 (edited) Fireant wrote:I hope I am never put into that "$hit hit the fan" position. Whether my gun holds 10+1 or 17+1, I have this "inkling" that I'll be shooting to slide lock no matter what. I think we have a winner here. Being able to shoot with 17+1 isn't going to help you count your rounds in a real life scenario. Most people I know don't actually count their rounds. They just know what target / shot they are going to go to slide lock at. It's a game until we stop keeping score and the targets don't shoot back. Heck, better preparation would be to have someone else load the gun initially for you (to varying capacity) and you not know where you are going to go to slide lock. It would make you be more in tune to realizing the gun is empty. That would be a better benefit for your "real life" scenario, IMHO. Edited October 1, 2007 by Bucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PHolsted Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 I'd rather see another class like Super BadA$$ Master or something. I'm cool with the division the way they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 God, I hope they don't add another division. I don't see the point of having a high cap division. IMHO it doesn't add anything of value to the sport, while at the same time it marginalizes the valuable skill of reloading on 80% of IDPA stages. If they do add one I would prefer that they recognize, true compact carry guns, with barrels 3.5 inches and shorter. I think a "real" compact division would be kinda cool. Besides, how many people carry a GLOCK 34? I'm sure there are some, but I betting there are many more who shoot a G34 in competition, but carry a 19 or 26 for self defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 (thread drift mode on again) Yeah, if the gun doesn't go to slide lock, I'd probably stop shooting when everthing (one?) stops moving or my brain finally registers the "Holy $hit! My ears are ringing" signal. (mode off) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 Heck, we have too many divisions already. Look at the way the scores converge, no matter the gun. Just as well divide up auto and revolver and let it go at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 (edited) Heck, we have too many divisions already. Look at the way the scores converge, no matter the gun. Just as well divide up auto and revolver and let it go at that. I agree with Jim. I've been shooting speedloader guns in IDPA since '98, and I had little enthusiasm for ESR - in which I shoot a speedloader gun. All them bottomfeeders look alike, anyway... When I want to shoot my full cap 9x19s, I shoot USPSA Limited minor. As long as it's a game, some compromises must be made. The ten round limit in SSP and ESP is one of them. A full-cap division would lead to another equipment race, and that's something IDPA has been trying to avoid since its inception. (Edited for clarity.) Edited October 1, 2007 by revchuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 the original poster and some of the supporting posts are describing TSA, basically guns are only divided by size and weight, divisions are full size, compact, subcompact,, scoring is major and minor, no distinction between caliber action or even revolver/auto, if it fits the box and makes weight. check out the "Street gun nationals thread" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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