vluc Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 This is going to be one of those that will bite somebody on the buttocks. I strongly suggest that anyone with specifics on what they are wanting to do contact JA. Maybe in the general sense this is okay, but I think it will come down to specific examples. The Speedbump, in general, was okay, until it was looked at. Vanek's triggers were okay until they were looked at. Since I don't plan on doing any of these, I have to defer the specifics to those of you that are doing it. Please ask those shops that are doing it to also contact JA. Save us a season load of grief in advance if at all possible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted December 5, 2007 Author Share Posted December 5, 2007 This is going to be one of those that will bite somebody on the buttocks. I strongly suggest that anyone with specifics on what they are wanting to do contact JA. Maybe in the general sense this is okay, but I think it will come down to specific examples. The Speedbump, in general, was okay, until it was looked at. Vanek's triggers were okay until they were looked at.Since I don't plan on doing any of these, I have to defer the specifics to those of you that are doing it. Please ask those shops that are doing it to also contact JA. Save us a season load of grief in advance if at all possible! dang good advice..before doing anything extreme...grip stippling, speedway magwell, shark treatment..whatever..best to get it checked by JA and have the email/rulings in your gunbag... cuz someones going to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 This is what I asked and got back from DNROI. From: Mitch Mora To: dnroi@uspsa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 12:52 AM Subject: Production Magwell? Hello, will this be legal in Production under the new 2008 rules. It seems like it is only an internal modification, an enhancement to the grip internal beveling. Grips – Internal beveling. Checkering, stippling, and addition of grip tape or grip sleeves. No magwell attachments or external flaring of the magwell. The lateral width of the well may not be more than 1/4" wider than the lateral width of the magazine. http://southpawcustom.com/speedway.htm Thanks, Mitch Hi Mitch, Assuming it does not change the external dimensions, it appears this would comply with the new rule. John Amidon VP USPSA Director NROI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 This is what I asked and got back from DNROI.From: Mitch Mora To: dnroi@uspsa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 12:52 AM Subject: Production Magwell? Hello, will this be legal in Production under the new 2008 rules. It seems like it is only an internal modification, an enhancement to the grip internal beveling. Grips – Internal beveling. Checkering, stippling, and addition of grip tape or grip sleeves. No magwell attachments or external flaring of the magwell. The lateral width of the well may not be more than 1/4" wider than the lateral width of the magazine. http://southpawcustom.com/speedway.htm Thanks, Mitch Hi Mitch, Assuming it does not change the external dimensions, it appears this would comply with the new rule. John Amidon VP USPSA Director NROI I was just composing an email to John, worded almost exactly the same as yours. Well, do I sacrifice my G34 frame to the production gods? I guess I could always buy a G35 later and have a frame swap if JA and/or anyone else decides this is not Production legal. Then I'd have an L-10 gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 This is what I asked and got back from DNROI.From: Mitch Mora To: dnroi@uspsa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 12:52 AM Subject: Production Magwell? Hello, will this be legal in Production under the new 2008 rules. It seems like it is only an internal modification, an enhancement to the grip internal beveling. Grips – Internal beveling. Checkering, stippling, and addition of grip tape or grip sleeves. No magwell attachments or external flaring of the magwell. The lateral width of the well may not be more than 1/4" wider than the lateral width of the magazine. http://southpawcustom.com/speedway.htm Thanks, Mitch Hi Mitch, Assuming it does not change the external dimensions, it appears this would comply with the new rule. John Amidon VP USPSA Director NROI I was just composing an email to John, worded almost exactly the same as yours. Well, do I sacrifice my G34 frame to the production gods? I guess I could always buy a G35 later and have a frame swap if JA and/or anyone else decides this is not Production legal. Then I'd have an L-10 gun. I am going to do it. It's only internal beveling, nothing is being done on the outside/external part of frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonT Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 All I wanted to do is file a slight internal bevel on my Beretta mag well. I'm not adding or taking away material (externally) to change the profile. I won't be taking off more than 2oz. If it's good enough for a Glock, it's good enough for a Beretta. I'm doing it but then I don't plan on shooting production in any major matches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scirocco38s Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 I guess we are on that slippery slope we always hear about... If that slippery slope allow us to run the gun with mag capacity and not the 10 round limit, then I'll slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIIID Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Has anyone sent JA the pictures of a before and after of these beveled guns? Filling in the hole in the frame and then beveling it shouldn't be allowed. There is a rule that slugs aren't legal. If this mod is deemed legal I would say Production has just became a full blown race gun Division. To checker and/or stipple a grip does change the profile. The C-S just gives a way to extremely modify a gun. What ever happened to no external modifications? All we get from the top is read the rules, the answer to all your questions are there. With these new rules you can practically build a gun from scratch. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike cyrwus Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 If that slippery slope allow us to run the gun with mag capacity and not the 10 round limit, then I'll slide. -Sorry, cant do anything with the slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted December 6, 2007 Share Posted December 6, 2007 Has anyone sent JA the pictures of a before and after of these beveled guns? You know you are not permitted it inject common sense into this discussion. Just because there is a lack of clarity doesn't mean that confirmation should be received BEFORE doing this. What would they bitch about then if it is determined you can't do it before you do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 If that slippery slope allow us to run the gun with mag capacity and not the 10 round limit, then I'll slide. -Sorry, cant do anything with the slide. Actually, you can replace the slide with an aftermarket copy. shrug Who cares, it's justa game. wink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Has anyone sent JA the pictures of a before and after of these beveled guns? Filling in the hole in the frame and then beveling it shouldn't be allowed. There is a rule that slugs aren't legal. If this mod is deemed legal I would say Production has just became a full blown race gun Division. To checker and/or stipple a grip does change the profile. The C-S just gives a way to extremely modify a gun.What ever happened to no external modifications? All we get from the top is read the rules, the answer to all your questions are there. With these new rules you can practically build a gun from scratch. Rich It appears the email above was sent with the url that shows before and after pics. What's the matter, it's not like we're asking the OEM to add special parts or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 (edited) Has anyone sent JA the pictures of a before and after of these beveled guns? You know you are not permitted it inject common sense into this discussion. Just because there is a lack of clarity doesn't mean that confirmation should be received BEFORE doing this. What would they bitch about then if it is determined you can't do it before you do it? Just for you, I'm going to send the same thing to see what the answer is. This is what I asked and got back from DNROI.From: Mitch Mora To: dnroi@uspsa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 12:52 AM Subject: Production Magwell? Hello, will this be legal in Production under the new 2008 rules. It seems like it is only an internal modification, an enhancement to the grip internal beveling. Grips – Internal beveling. Checkering, stippling, and addition of grip tape or grip sleeves. No magwell attachments or external flaring of the magwell. The lateral width of the well may not be more than 1/4" wider than the lateral width of the magazine. http://southpawcustom.com/speedway.htm Thanks, Mitch Hi Mitch, Assuming it does not change the external dimensions, it appears this would comply with the new rule. John Amidon VP USPSA Director NROI The url shows the before and after pics. ETA: Screw it, I'm going to send it snail mail, with color pics of the before and after. Edited December 7, 2007 by GeorgeInNePa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory_k Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 There goes the spirt of production Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 (edited) Thanks, George. JA is the answer man. If the external dimensions are not changed then it seems good to go. Still not sure what additional advantage is gained, but if someone gets it done and beats me, it sure as hell is not that modification that did it. ETA: Whoa...from the site "The Sevigny Speedway is a permanent customization to the magazine well opening of the polymer pistol grip. In the case of Glock pistols, this fills in the open area behind the mag well. This area is then smoothed and contoured." This is the same area that I cannot put a removable plug into without going into Open (stated reason: you might add/hide some weight), but you can permanently fill it in (and never know what may be there) and that is okay? Edited December 7, 2007 by vluc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Okay, I think this one is pretyy much put to bed. The latest reply from JA when I asked about plugs, et. al. With the 2008 rules, the plug you refer to is OK, what you cannot add is a plug like the Seattle Slug, which extends down from the grip and acts as an extended mag well. The Sevigny set up is allowed as it does not change the outer dimensions or contour of the grip. John Amidon Director NROI -----Original Message----- From: vlucchetti@verizon.net [mailto:vlucchetti@verizon.net] Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 10:06 AM To: John Amidon Subject: beveled magwell John, i'm confused on this beveled magwell after seeing a picture. http://southpawcustom.com/images/spdwy7.jpg "The Sevigny Speedway is a permanent customization to the magazine well opening of the polymer pistol grip. In the case of Glock pistols, this fills in the open area behind the mag well. This area is then smoothed and contoured." This is the same area that I cannot put a removable plug into without going into Open (stated reason: you might add/hide some weight), but you can permanently fill it in (and never know what may be there) and that is okay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIIID Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 So the trigger guard and the dust cover are the only things on a production gun that can't be polished, throated, checkered, stippled, beveled, exchanged, or just flat out modified. Those two parts are the only things that are going to be production on a Production gun. I'd like to thank the BOD for their hard work and dedication on putting together the new rule book. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 Rich I understand your thoughts, but no one on the BOD get's everything they want. Five votes makes a majority. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory_k Posted December 7, 2007 Share Posted December 7, 2007 So the trigger guard and the dust cover are the only things on a production gun that can't be polished, throated, checkered, stippled, beveled, exchanged, or just flat out modified. Those two parts are the only things that are going to be production on a Production gun.I'd like to thank the BOD for their hard work and dedication on putting together the new rule book. Rich You can polish the inside of the dust cover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clown Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Maybe this was addressed, but wouldn't the speedway add weight? Seems to me that filling the hole would push the gun over the 2oz rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 Maybe this was addressed, but wouldn't the speedway add weight? Seems to me that filling the hole would push the gun over the 2oz rule. Nah, after the "polished, throated, checkered, stippled, beveled, exchanged, or just flat out modified" (to quote RIID) pieces are done, probably a wash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 So the trigger guard and the dust cover are the only things on a production gun that can't be polished, throated, checkered, stippled, beveled, exchanged, or just flat out modified. Those two parts are the only things that are going to be production on a Production gun.I'd like to thank the BOD for their hard work and dedication on putting together the new rule book. Rich You can polish the inside of the dust cover ROTFLMAO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted December 8, 2007 Author Share Posted December 8, 2007 Maybe this was addressed, but wouldn't the speedway add weight? Seems to me that filling the hole would push the gun over the 2oz rule. probably be even...but if they weigh it and its over..welcome to open.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clown Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 yeah, i wouldn't risk it. sounds like more work for the ro's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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