XRe Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 I hate that I have to read endless glowing reviews about some vendors on this forum, and cannot reciprocate with my own, highly negative experiences I hate that others on this forum might take this seeming lack of negative feedback as being implicit endorsement from the forum community I hate that I still feel like the forum led me way down the wrong path (currently to the tune of $225) Don't believe everything you read - even on this fine forum.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 Bad escort service??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted April 4, 2007 Author Share Posted April 4, 2007 I wish... that would've been more fun.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear23 Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 Why not just write a glowing report and at the end, just footnote a little tone of sarcasm. Like, Yeah, I got those tuned mags really super duper fast from some guy....etc.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatepickles Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 I'm in agreement. It would be great if we had a fair way (fair to the purchaser and the seller) to post negative experiences. It may be asking too much though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustinMike Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 It would be nice to hear the good and bad both. I guess I can see from a moderation standpoint where it would be difficult to weed out genuine bad experiences vendors from the buyers that you simply can't please no matter what. It would also be cool if there were a way that members could have feedback in the classifieds. I haven't had any bad experiences yet, but with as much money as we exchange in this sport, it would be nice to have the extra assurance of seeing feedback history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted April 4, 2007 Author Share Posted April 4, 2007 Well, Brian arranged with the vendors that they could set up a customer service thread, and deal with things on the forum in that fashion - they're allowed to moderate that thread, of course. But, the intention is that those with issues can go to that vendor publicly and the vendor can choose to explain the situation, or remedy it... or not... or edit the thread and remove the negative feedback... Some vendors chose not to do so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 When I get really bothered...I go post on GlockTalk. Why not just write a glowing report and at the end, just footnote a little tone of sarcasm. Because Dave respects Brian's rules...even when they are at odds with his immediate desires. It's like he is man enough to exercise some self-control...what a f*#king concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 (edited) Because Dave respects Brian's rules...even when they are at odds with his immediate desires. It's like he is man enough to exercise some self-control...what a f*#king concept. Is it a rule that he may not publish a true account of a screwing from a vendor? I didn't know that was the case here. If he is telling the truth, I don't understand why it would be against the rules to post it. Well, Brian arranged with the vendors that they could set up a customer service thread, and deal with things on the forum in that fashion - they're allowed to moderate that thread, of course. But, the intention is that those with issues can go to that vendor publicly and the vendor can choose to explain the situation, or remedy it... or not... or edit the thread and remove the negative feedback...Some vendors chose not to do so... Speaking of the power of the Forum: I bought a para Ord 1640 LDA some time back which was an absolute TOAD and caused me lots of problems. I described some in passing in a thread on the 1911 Forum... and later received a PM from a high ranking employee of Para who regularly reads and posted there offering to give me some better parts to replace some of the crappy ones my new gun came with. IMHO, sellers are highly motivated to take action to turn angry buyers into satisfied ones when they see their misdeeds splashed across posts. Just my experience. Edited April 4, 2007 by bountyhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted April 4, 2007 Author Share Posted April 4, 2007 When I get really bothered...I go post on GlockTalk. Oh, God Don't tempt me to go register for TrashTalk... Is it a rule that he may not publish a true account of a screwing from a vendor? Yes. If he is telling the truth, I don't understand why it would be against the rules to post it. I think there's an explanation from Brian floating around, but... basically, in an Internet forum, one can easily "exagerrate", etc, and also tend to leave out "the other side of the story". So, Brian's historically avoided negative comments about the industry because of that. Mid year, last year, he altered that slightly, and allowed his vendors to decide if they wanted to deal with customer service issues in an open forum. If the vendor chooses not to, its still business as usual - no negative feedback. IMHO, sellers are highly motivated to take action to turn angry buyers into satisfied ones when they see their misdeeds splashed across posts. I agree that many vendors will respond to a politely and fairly worded post in a positive fashion - in fact, I think that's exactly why Brian instituted the new policy. In the end, it works out well for everyone - the customer gets their issue resolved, and the company gets to demonstrate their customer service skills publically (and hopefully win a repeat customer). Obviously, folks who make asses of themselves might just be laughed at by the company - but the forum in general will tend to handle those folks, as well (either by calling them out on it, or by ignoring their feedback in the future...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragon Posted April 4, 2007 Share Posted April 4, 2007 Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlockSpeed31 Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 (edited) Dave, bummer that you got burned or screwed over. Forum People & Mods: Would it be ok if someone were to ask "I am thinking of doing business with XYZ company, anyone had bad experience with XYZ? If so, please PM me with details so that I may make a better decision." This way, your not posting negative feedback on the open forum. I'm just asking if this would be ok. I have not had a bad deal with anyone on this forum what so ever and not trying to start something up negatively. Edited April 5, 2007 by GlockSpeed31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 This is from the Hate Forum Guidelines: Hate rants involving shooters, firearms, or shooting related manufacturers, such as but not limited to - IPSC, IDPA, USPSA, the NRA, or Match Directors - are NOT PERMITTED. What XRe posted above is also true-- there's no way to get both sides of the story equally well, the negativeness that goes along with it doesn't ft the forum's goals, and there are other places for it. That said, asking about experiences with a company or person, especially via PM is ok. Asking specificially for negatives is probably best avoided. Do keep in mind that not everybody on here is unbiased and some are almost certainly, owners, employees, sponsorees or friends of the various vendors anybody is likely to ask about. The competition shooting industry is just too small and the BE forums are too big for that not to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted April 5, 2007 Share Posted April 5, 2007 The only good thing is that a TURD gets found out, eventually. Sucks for those who get screwed in the meantime. A crappy vendor/gunsmith/manufacturer/etc. isn't safe from the light of day, even when some would like us to sit around, hold hands and sing kum-ba-ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted April 7, 2007 Author Share Posted April 7, 2007 (edited) After I posted this initial post yesterday, I figured I'd make one more attempt at contacting the vendor in question. I asked (politely) solely for the return of my equipment. I did not receive a direct response - however, yesterday evening, I received an email from UPS stating that a package was being shipped to me NextDay from the vendor. I received the package today, with the work completed, and the additional items I'd ordered included. Additionally, the order I'd placed would have resulted in a balance I needed to pay plus shipping - those were discounted on my order, for a net zero balance, putting me ahead some $90 - given the customer service experience I had, I'd say that puts us somewhere near square. Although I honestly still feel a little bit sour about the whole thing, I have my gear in hand, and that's a good thing. At this point, I will still use the vendor's gear, but I'm not likely to employ their services in the future - I appreciate that the vendor made good on the deal, I just wish it hadn't involved so much struggle.... Edit to fix a stupid typo Edited April 7, 2007 by XRe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 The mere threat of net action can get results. Although not gun related, I had an experience when this technique got results where previous polite requests fell on deaf ears. I needed some follow-up repair to a roofing job from a large and generally reputable local firm. I repeatedly left messages and was told to expect a call back which obviously never happened, or I wouldn't be posting this. I made a final call, which went something like this: Me: I've left several messages and promised callbacks that never happened. Operator: Someone will call you back. What is your number? Me: Got a pen ready? Operator: Yes Me: Write this down because I'm only going to say it once. My number is ...... Tell your president that I have tried for several weeks to get a call back with no response. He has exactly one hour to contact me. If I do not hear from him within that timeframe I will register a website which contains your company name, details the lack of after sale service, and will be designed so any Google search from prospective customers will find it. The time is now XX:XX and you have one hour. Got that?" Operator: I'll pass it along Three weeks of repeated calls - no callback. Dropped the I-Bomb - call from the president in under 20 minutes, repair crew on-site two days later, job done to my complete satisfaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue edge Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 I have one to share but I cant, rules!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 This is from the Hate Forum Guidelines:Hate rants involving shooters, firearms, or shooting related manufacturers, such as but not limited to - IPSC, IDPA, USPSA, the NRA, or Match Directors - are NOT PERMITTED. What XRe posted above is also true-- there's no way to get both sides of the story equally well, the negativeness that goes along with it doesn't ft the forum's goals, and there are other places for it. That said, asking about experiences with a company or person, especially via PM is ok. Asking specificially for negatives is probably best avoided. Do keep in mind that not everybody on here is unbiased and some are almost certainly, owners, employees, sponsorees or friends of the various vendors anybody is likely to ask about. The competition shooting industry is just too small and the BE forums are too big for that not to be the case. Just post in the proper forum, not the hate. Ask for quality of product etc. Just say feel free to pm with details of the product or service. This could be good or bad and doesn't violate and rules as far as I know. I have done this many times here. Flyin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A-shot Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 As a new consumer in this sport, I have to say sorry to anyone that has a bad experience. That sucks. XRe, I'm glad you handled business with a good outcome. My experiences have all been positive, but I am aware anything can happen. Have a place where you will draw the line. I expect much more out of any company selling their goods on BE, because they are selling their goods here. Classifieds are different and ya get whatcha pay for, so if someone suckers you, you still met him halfway. USPSA is small, and for that companies will still go out of their way to satisfy us. Bad news moves way faster than good news, because it may seem contagious and cancerous. Man, I dunno what I'd do if I spent thousands on a piece, and all it did was puke. Caveat Vendor...is that how that would work? Watch out sellers!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 Just to give a basis of the general idea... Brian created this forum to talk about shooting skills. It wasn't created to talk about tactics. It wasn't created to sell products and services (which is a tight rope to walk). It wasn't created as a soapbox...and, by that I mean it's not a place to come to bitch and complain just because there is a large audience to hear it and it could do some damage or payback. Most of the above could be done on other forums, or through personal messages and emails....all off of the forum. We have a pretty great group here. And the moderating team works hard to steer the ship in the intended direction. This place is here to talk about the shooting. Thanks for keeping it nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted April 7, 2007 Author Share Posted April 7, 2007 Well, I think we've been over all the relevant ground... Caveat Emptor is the rule of the day, asking for experiences/feedback on a vendor is cool, and... take all the positive, glowing praise with a grain of salt without having done so... With that, perhaps we ought to close this one down so it doesn't get hinky... CLOSED (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 CLOSED (?) Done Lets get back to the shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted April 7, 2007 Author Share Posted April 7, 2007 CLOSED (?) Done Apparently not??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpty1 Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 As a dealer on this forum, I am not opposed to accurate feedback, be it good or bad as it relates to my transactions. That way the customer gets an accurate perception of what they can expect from me before they place their order. Otherwise, what good is feedback at all? I can say this because I know 99.999% of my feedback would be positive, but even if that were not the case, I suspect negative feedback would encourage me to do better and allow me to understand what areas that improvement needed to take place in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Boudrie Posted April 7, 2007 Share Posted April 7, 2007 If you hate it so much, why not start your own forum? Cost is minimal - if you're willing to live without a dedicated domain name you can get a site with Invision powerboard for $10/month from Invision Power Services http://hosting.ipslink.com/community.html (this is the approach IPSC uses) If it takes off, you could set up your own site with the Invision software and you own dedicated domain name (the approach used by the Enos and the USPSA forums) Of course, you'd be stuck with the moderating duties, but I expect the shooting community would react positively to a review forum. The problem is how to you filter out shills for companies, or n'er do wells posting unflattering comments about competitors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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