Goal Setting

[ChrisMcCracken]

I'm posting here out, having not seen a better place to post the question and since my journal entry doesn't get responses. I think goals and a drive to get better should be part of any mental conditioning program.

The question is: What are reasonable goals for class advancement having just started out?

You can check my journal post for a breakdown of my last match. To summarize, I suspect I'm shooting on par with C and D class shooters, C at my current best, D with some stupid screw ups. Is it too presumptive to assume that I should be able to rise relatively quickly through D and C within my first year? I'd like to start next year as a B shooter aiming for A, with the overall goal of getting my M card in 3-4 years.

Thanks!

Chris

[zhunter]

Chris

A lot wold depend upon your physical skills that you ahve to work with. I.e. quickness, hand-eye coordination.

Also, how much time and money do you have to spend, i.e. ammo and quality training?

How dedicated are you? Do you Dry-fire every day or night, or only once a week?

Those are just a few questions you need to ask yourself.

Attaining an A card is attainable for most if they have the physical skills, but anything higher than that will take a tremendous amount of dedication and discipline. Do you have that?

Edited March 22, 2007 by zhunter

[ChrisMcCracken]

Chris

A lot wold depend upon your physical skills that you ahve to work with. I.e. quickness, hand-eye coordination.

Also, how much time and money do you have to spend, i.e. ammo and quality training?

How dedicated are you? Do you Dry-fire every day or night, or only once a week?

Those are just a few questions you need to ask yourself.

Attaining an A card is attainable for most if they have the physical skills, but anyting higher than that will take a tremendous amount of dedication and discipline. Do you have that?

Those are very reasonable questions. I doubt that I will have any physical limitations short of the GM/M level. That being said, I won't know unless I hone the skills. Spending is more of a limitation, but I'm already reloading for an optimal load and to save $. I am going to be graduating from medschool in just over a year, so I can see what the graduation fairy brings with regard to equipment and ammo funds. Quality training I've not looked into extensively yet, and I don't anticipate being able to afford much training anytime in the next year at least. That can be something I save for though. All that points to dedication as my biggest variable. I've not yet begun training in a consistant manner, either dry-fire or at the range. I am joining a local private range, Norfolk County Rifle Range, which would give me a 24hour/day place to train live fire for at least the next year. My next step for dry-fire practice will probably be learning WHAT and HOW to practice, as I don't really know the best drills or how to be efficient or effective with dry-fire training. I'm very open to suggestion on resources in this department, and I still need to look up the the FAQ's for this as well. Overall, I find that I can attain any goal I set and really strive for, within reason. Without any innate or early developed skills as a musician, I don't expect to ever play an instrument on a professional level. The same goes for linguistics. Shooting on the other hand, I've done for as long as I can remember. If there is anything in this world that I can excel at, other than academics, its going to be shooting.

Edited March 22, 2007 by Erucolindon

[zhunter]

OK, so now I know you have youth, and that is good. With youth, there is normally speed, hand-eye coordination is not a given tho.

Get Steve Anderson's book on Training.

Save your pennies and take some training classes from TOP teachers, i.e. Manny Bragg, Travis and Max, or others in their league.

Find a GM or high master that will take youunder thier wing for some practice sessions.

Pay attention and ask lots of questions here and at local matches.

Most shooters are happy to help, but get the help from TOP shooters.

[dirtypool40]

I would not worry about class advancement so much as real, in match performance.

Another important thing is to have a goal behind every goal. Otherwise, at least in my case, there is a sense of uncertainty about what to do as you near the first one. Upon reading more about this sort fo thing, it seems it's not uncommon.

[AlamoShooter]

What ? are you willing to give? / give up ? = is it worth three weekends out of the every month to you to reach A class in one year? Can you start thinking primers in case lots of 5,000 at a time and gedtting two cases to last ??? three or four months @ 3,000 + per month, I think that is a common for moving up, to stay at A level you can get bu with alot less. But moving up takes = giving up somthing. '

find some friends with the same or close to the same goals of improving and make the (trip) of improving part of the fun.

A goal of moving up to A or M .> would you give up having a new car for the next two years? would you make every vacation a shooting vacation?

I have put a lot into shooting sports and have had lots of fun on the Trip. BUT I do know cost

Goals are great but don't turn your back on too much life.

[Flexmoney]

Along the same as DP mentioned. Class advancement/focus is a bad goal. (sorry folks, it is)

Learning and executing the fundamentals is where its at.

For now, I'd do nothing else but learning to "call the shot". And, that doesn't mean making accurate shots or hitting the targets. It means to know where the bullet will impact...as it leaves the barrel. You know by reading the sights as they start to lift out of the notch in recoil.

We have shooters that still need to grasp this concept. Even after posting on this very forum for years now.

If you can get this (and it isn't too hard if you make it a priority) then Master and above is waiting on you. If you don't get it...the sport takes on a different meaning.

[Zerwas]

Along the same as DP mentioned. Class advancement/focus is a bad goal. (sorry folks, it is)

Learning and executing the fundamentals is where its at.

For now, I'd do nothing else but learning to "call the shot". And, that doesn't mean making accurate shots or hitting the targets. It means to know where the bullet will impact...as it leaves the barrel. You know by reading the sights as they start to lift out of the notch in recoil.

We have shooters that still need to grasp this concept. Even after posting on this very forum for years now.

If you can get this (and it isn't too hard if you make it a priority) then Master and above is waiting on you. If you don't get it...the sport takes on a different meaning.

Yeah, like flex said. Concentrate on the fundamentals, not on some artificial set of goals that will only mess you up mentally. You'd push yourself too hard to shoot "faster" rather than being more efficient and seeing your sites, pressing the trigger and becoming smooth rather than fast.

[IronEqualizer]

Check Max Michel's web site under his tip section for how to set goals. The third or fourth post under my range diary has my goals and class advancement will be the byproduct of achieving my subgoals. You should really put a lot of thought into it for it to be affective. Hope this helps.

[boo radley]

I'm not being contrary, but I do wonder what's so bad about using class as a goal? Why is it mutually exclusive from learning the fundamentals?

Obviously some perspective is necessary -- driving 9 hours each weekend, to hit special "4-classifier matches", or constantly turning in reshoots on Classifiers, etc. -- is a different issue.

But I don't see what's wrong with saying, "Objectively I'm at X class now, and by Y date I'd like to get to Z class....What skills do I need to improve to reach this goal?"

[Zerwas]

I can only answer for me.

When I made A class, I thought to myself, "now, I'm an A class shooter, so I should be shooting faster". This way of thinking cost me in loosing site of my fundamentals.

Then I made M class. I then thought to myself, "now, I'm a master shooter so I MUST shoot faster to be able to keep up with other master class shooters". Once again, I put the fundamentals on the back burner which messed me up. I am now in the process of re-thinking what it is I need to do to become smoother. I NEED my A hits, and I need to be smooth. This is my "goal" for this year.

[boo radley]

I can only answer for me.

When I made A class, I thought to myself, "now, I'm an A class shooter, so I should be shooting faster". This way of thinking cost me in loosing site of my fundamentals.

Then I made M class. I then thought to myself, "now, I'm a master shooter so I MUST shoot faster to be able to keep up with other master class shooters". Once again, I put the fundamentals on the back burner which messed me up. I am now in the process of re-thinking what it is I need to do to become smoother. I NEED my A hits, and I need to be smooth. This is my "goal" for this year.

I hear ya', Steven. I'm certainly not at your level, but can empathize a bit -- shot an IDPA classifier, for the hell of it, with no expectations, ended up "MA" and have consequently had *dreadful* IDPA matches, with a huge focus on speed....But that's a devil I'm used to carrying on my shoulder, and one I need to exorcise, regardless.

No, I'm thinking more along the lines of saying (which is what I'm doing): "OK. I'm at 70%...next year by this time, I'd like to be at 80%. What areas am I weak in? What do I need to practice to improve in these areas, and how committed am I?"

So I guess it's sortta getting to the same place -- improving fundamentals -- but with a "class" related goal, but not a "class focus?"

Or hell. Rambling and thinking out loud.

Maybe this is all so much bullsh*t; we're all completely ego-driven in this sport, and the bottom line is you ain't going to get There from Here without solid fundamentals, no matter what is lighting your fuse.

[benos]

There's a couple other threads here:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...p;highlite=goal

be

[Flexmoney]

No, I'm thinking more along the lines of saying (which is what I'm doing): "OK. I'm at 70%...next year by this time, I'd like to be at 80%. What areas am I weak in? What do I need to practice to improve in these areas, and how committed am I?"

So I guess it's sortta getting to the same place -- improving fundamentals -- but with a "class" related goal, but not a "class focus?"

Or hell. Rambling and thinking out loud.

I think you are going in the right direction, perhaps we just have some confused terms and distinctions ?

You've really covered it...

You want to go from where you are to...a better place. You've thought about what you need for the journey, and how to get it. Then you asked yourself to decide ("how committed").

I'll add this...when the RO calls off the time, then goes and starts scoring the targets...my classification card means nothing. How I executed the shooting is all that matters.

[Micah]

I'll add this...when the RO calls off the time, then goes and starts scoring the targets...my classification card means nothing. How I executed the shooting is all that matters.

+1. An M card an $1 will get you a Coke out of the vending machines.

I spoke with Steve Anderson about what to say in my directive affirmation (goals).

I was curious as to whether or not I should say "When I go to a match, I know that I am the best Production shooter there." There are many phenomenal Production shooters that I encounter locally (Moneypenny, Flex, Vogel) that I have yet to beat.

Steve stated that I can never win over these people until I believe that I can, even if I have the subconsious ability to do so.

Guess what my goal statement says

[Calamity Jane]

[

graduating from medschool

I've not yet begun training in a consistant manner, either dry-fire or at the range. I am joining a local private range, Norfolk County Rifle Range, which would give me a 24hour/day place to train live fire for at least the next year. My next step for dry-fire practice will probably be learning WHAT and HOW to practice, as I don't really know the best drills or how to be efficient or effective with dry-fire training. I'm very open to suggestion on resources in this department, and I still need to look up the the FAQ's for this as well. Overall, I find that I can attain any goal I set and really strive for, within reason. Without any innate or early developed skills as a musician, I don't expect to ever

I think you already know what to do. You're going to be doctor. This tells me: you don't like to be told what to do, you like to lead and be in charge, you think you're always right, you're a high achiever, and obviously you have set goals in your life. (that was the ICU nurse in me talking) It sounds like dry fire will most likely give you the biggest "bang for the buck". They are right about Steve Anderson's book (first one) It gives you ideas and direction for putting a dry fire practice together. Other awesome books are Saul Kirsch's book "Thinking Practical Shooting" and also "Perfect Practice" These are must have books. I also would suggest finding a shooting buddy. I know my own personal development has greatly been enhanced by those I shoot and train with.

Don't let the classification system define who you are as a shooter. I avoid saying "I'm a X class shooter" I always say I'm becoming a (class higher than I am) shooter. The becoming is more powerful mentally than the arriving. You are on the road to becoming...embrace that.

[Steve Anderson]

I will say that, after reaching GM in a short amount of time that it's a good goal with some trouble built in.

I would counsel newer shooters to ignore the classifier altogether and shoot every stage the same.

This way, your match performance will dictate your class.

However, classifiers have little to do with winning matches.

It would be interesting to see who would win if nationals was 28 classifier stages...Very little movement, very little gaming, etc.

I tend to shoot classifier type drills in Dry Fire, and field course type stuff in live fire. It works well when properly applied.

What do you really want?

To be a GM?

To win your class?

To win the match?

You gotta figure out what trips you trigger and why...because the only time a goal fails is when it lacks pay value.

If you NEED to be a GM, then get 'er done. It'll happen quicker than you think.

SA

[Flyin40]

I will say that, after reaching GM in a short amount of time that it's a good goal with some trouble built in.

I would counsel newer shooters to ignore the classifier altogether and shoot every stage the same.

This way, your match performance will dictate your class.

However, classifiers have little to do with winning matches.

It would be interesting to see who would win if nationals was 28 classifier stages...Very little movement, very little gaming, etc.

I tend to shoot classifier type drills in Dry Fire, and field course type stuff in live fire. It works well when properly applied.

What do you really want?

To be a GM?

To win your class?

To win the match?

You gotta figure out what trips you trigger and why...because the only time a goal fails is when it lacks pay value.

If you NEED to be a GM, then get 'er done. It'll happen quicker than you think.

SA

This is some great advice. I was primarly focused on what class I was in and classifier scores. I would reshoot classifiers about half the time to get a better score. This did nothing but move me up to quick. I might of been a M class on the scorecard but was struggling shooting A class in overall match performance. My main focus now is overall match performance and consistency. To get rid of bombed stages at matches. Just have a nice level match.

I do watch my classifier score but its for nothing more that to compare my fundementals against other shooters. I have figured out that those top guys, about 90% and above just don't have those major screwups. They usually don't blow reloads, just mess up a draw or just do something fundementally wrong at a match. They do mess up but it tends to be small mistakes. My theory is they are sound fundementally in classifier type drills(SAnderson's R&R core drills) and practice so much on them or have practiced so much they just don't make those mistakes.

I think I would feel a huge sense of accomplishment if I would make GM through match scores only.

Flyin40

[Steve Anderson]

The other interesting thing about the class quest is this...

I wonder how many C-class shooters have ever seen a GM shoot in person?

When Flex and I were coming up I had never even seen a GM... I thought they were superhuman, akin to Tiger Woods or Lance Armstrong, etc.

After seeing some Blake Miguez and Travis Tomasie footage on a Burkett DVD, I thought: "Hmmm, I bet I can do that"

That Blake footage is responsible for my skill at transitions...which is one of my strengths. Had I never seen that, I would have taken MUCH longer to get anywhere...

I guess I'm saying that you don't know what's possible until you see what's possible.

And it would serve the sport well if we didn't know which stage was the classifier.

SA

[Tangram]

In this thread I asked Getting Good - How Long Did It Take Perhaps, I asked part of your question. It took me a couple years to realize that for me it is the wrong question. The story that drove this point home is told by a great skeet shooter.

Todd Bender recounted this story in his article "How Long Till You Succeed?" ShotgunSports 01/07.

"Such discussions always remind me of one of my favorite stories about a young man who traveled far to visit the school of a famous martial arts master. When he arrived, he was given an opportunity to speak to the master."

"What do you wish from me?" the master asked.

"I wish to be your student and become the finest karateka in the land," the man replied. "How long must I study?"

"Ten years at least," the master answered.

"Ten years is a long time," said the young man. "What if I studied twice as hard as all your other students?"

"Twenty years," replied the master.

"Twenty years! What if I practice day and night with all my effort?"

"Thirty years," was the masters reply.

How is it each time I say I will work harder, you tell me it will take longer," the boy asked.

"The answer is clear," said the master. "When one eye is fixed upon your destination, there is only one eye left with which to find the way."

Later in the article Bender wrote.

"Instead of focusing on how long it will take to reach your goal, focus on how well you learn the basics and techniques necessary to reach your goal."

Goals may be useful. But the questions that I ask to form them are the real drivers. Recently I have focused my energies on clay target shooting. The question, "What's important?" Focus on looking at the edges of the clay and much less on the idea of getting good or setting time schedules. Shooting here and now. Reflective practice. Be aware. Focus. Trust. Confidence. Fun. Getting my analytic mind off controlling the actions.... letting the analytic mind do it's thing while I am not shooting.

[Steve Moneypenny]

+1. An M card an $1 will get you a Coke out of the vending machines.

I spoke with Steve Anderson about what to say in my directive affirmation (goals).

I was curious as to whether or not I should say "When I go to a match, I know that I am the best Production shooter there." There are many phenomenal Production shooters that I encounter locally (Moneypenny, Flex, Vogel) that I have yet to beat.

Steve stated that I can never win over these people until I believe that I can, even if I have the subconscious ability to do so.

Guess what my goal statement says wink.gif

wow... i wouldn't say i'm phenomenal... but thanks for the gracious words.... being a master must be cool. because last time i tried to get a water from a vending machine it was $1.25

umm i'm not sure if i want to know what that statement says ..........?

back on topic. reasonable goals ... do you want to BE reasonable... if you set a goal and are willing to get there by whatever means you have that may be unreasonable to some people.

Speed at attaining goals will come down to

1. your drive.

2. your sphere of influence. if you have GM's breathing down your neck (in a good way) that will help you out

3. do you think you can attain them.

[Allgoodhits]

Focusing on the GOAL may be too big or broad of a task.

Establish reasonable (achievable with difficulty) "performance objectives" which when put together in a successful manner will take you toward your goal.

When each PERFORMANCE OBJECTIVE has been meet, establish a more difficult one. When the GOAL is reached, establish a new or more difficult one.

The PERFORMANCE OBJECTIVE should not be to win a match, it should be specific to the development or improvement of a specific task, i.e. quicker draw, quicker splits, quicker reloads, higher level of accuracy, movement, target acquisitions etc.

When these specific skills are improved, then work on combining them into stages which require various skills. If you can learn to do this, then when encountered with a "match stage" you then may be better able to disect it as smaller tasks which you have done many times before, thus a feeling of comfort.

With the knowledge that you can perform the skills needed comes a level of comfort. Knowledge and comfort may yield confidence. Typically with knowledge, skill, comfort and confidence your mind is not intimidated, thus reducing stress. Before you know it you have just performed better than you ever have, and there can no goal better than best you ever have.

Good luck,

MJ

[ChrisMcCracken]

Just want to let you guys know I'm still here... reading, processing, and working to incorporate any and all advice as I see fit. Thank you. Keep it coming.

Chris

2. your sphere of influence. if you have GM's breathing down your neck (in a good way) that will help you out

Know of anyone in the Norfolk/Portsmouth/Hampton/Va. Beach area? I've yet to pair up with a good shooting buddy thats motivated to compete and improve.

[gunsablazin]

Practice with a specific goal in mind,learn from each match. The thing you did the worst should stand out in your mind. There is no end to improving at this game so don't forget to have FUN!!

Robin