tnpyeron3 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 (edited) At the FL Open, I was shooting my Para P-16 and on 4 separate occasions (3 different mags) the followers got stuck at the bottom of the magazine, causing a train wreck. Here's what I'm running: Para SS 16-rd mag tube (did not use scotch bite pads inside) Dawson base pad Arredondo followers Wolff Oversize High-Cap Mag Spring (trimmed to fit 20rds, probably a bad idea) The mags were cleaned prior to shooting the match and cleaned after each stage. What is the best solution to this problem? (Besides switching to a S_I, I don't have the money right now. Even though if I sold both Para's I would) Any help is appreciated. Edited February 26, 2007 by tnpyeron3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 I long ago quit using the Arredondo followers. They were not reliable if I kept the mags loaded. Search back through the forums for Para mag tips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Get rid of those followers and springs. Use stock Para parts and they hold 21 rounds and run perfectly. Every 2 years at the max, replace the mag springs. I found out this weekend that one of my original mags had a worn out spring after a little over 2 years of hard use. I had replacements so it was no big deal. Use the scotch brite pads inside the mags and make sure the followers are deburred. I have 16 mags and this combo works in all of them. Add Arredondo followers or mess with other springs and the reliability goes away fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flatland Shooter Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 With your Para mags, polish the inside and outside. Repeat every season. Install Grams followers and springs. Later, consider converting your Para over to S_I mags, again with Grams followers and springs. Canyon Creek can modify your mag catch to work. Excellent reliability and those S_I mags seem to jump into the gun on the reloads compared to Para mags. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 I have had excellent luck running stock Para springs and followers and Dawson basepads in my Para and my Armscor clone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 I have had good luck with Dawson pads, stock followers and Grams springs. The springs lasted at least 2x as factory springs. I get 20 rounds in all an can get 21 in a couple of them. Later, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 I run stock follower and stock spring with Dawson basepads and will hold 20-21. I had one of the original springs fail, but that's after 5 years of use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted February 26, 2007 Share Posted February 26, 2007 Stock spring and follower, Dawson +5 pads = 21 rounds in all of my (10) mags. Haven't had a failure in, seems like, over 2 years. As an extra, I polished the outsides on a buffer, lightly sanded the followers on the contact edges, little bit of graphite in there every once in a while. Couldn't be more pleased. Until Benny get's me my new blaster. hint, hint! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnpyeron3 Posted February 27, 2007 Author Share Posted February 27, 2007 Thank you all for the tips. I'll start with the easy option of using Para springs and followers. If that doesn't cure it, I'll try the Grams springs and/or Canyon Creek conversion. I will let you know what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
born-in-45 Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 I too use stock Para followers and springs with Dawson +2 pads. The only time I have experienced a problem was when I let the mags get dirty (gritty powder around here gets into everything). With the Dawson base pads, it is quite simple to clean the mags every couple stages and the result has been zero problems. Besides the normal cleanup/polishing, I also use mag slick when I do my after match mag cleanup. Finally, about once a quarter, I restretch the springs a little to maintain the spring tension. Have two years on the combo with great results. I would stick with the Para mags as you can load an extra round or 2 over the S_I approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folsoml Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 I can only reliably feed 19 rounds with stock Para tubes, followers, springs, and Dawson base pads. I seems like if I try to put in 20 (which they will hold easily) the follower turns sideways and I have to shake out the bullets like a salt shaker. Sometimes it will feed em, sometimes it won't. It always feeds 19 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 That's really odd. All 16 of mine hold 21 and function 100%. Of course they aren't reloadable enough to suit me, so I start with 21+1 and reload to 20 rounds. Are the mags old and the springs worn out?, or is there any other reason you can think of that the followers may be different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folsoml Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 It's a mystery to me as well. They've always done that--even when they were new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 I think I might be willing to try the Grams follower and spring in 1 mag to see what happens. Something is definitely wrong somewhere The only negatives I've seen with my P16 mags have been the resistance to removal of their current protective coating and the garbage springs I got in the last pair of mags I bought from Dawson. They have a parkarized (sp?) look to them. I ended up using those springs in 2 of 4 mags I recently purchased with Arredondo extensions on them. They only hold 19 anyway, so the bad springs worked fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folsoml Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 What I always pictured was happening was that the follower was getting so far down that it was no longer in the magtube, and was actually down in the base pad itself. I pictured that it was then catching the edge of the bottom of the tube and getting stuck. Whether this is what is actually taking place or not, I don't know, but it is what I imagined. Oddly enough, I have two mags with Arrendondo pads, and they will only feed 18. My "Master" also recommended the Grams gear as well, but we haven't found any at a match yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Hi all, It sounds like there are many good answers here. My endpoint (Stock followers, Grams springs and Dawson pads) came to be after using Para stuff since 1998. One other thing that I failed to mention: the tubes that had that thick paint-like finish were stripped and hard chromed. I had 2 old tubes that are blued and they work fine as is. The same holds true for the nickel plated tube that came with a P-16. One note about the base pads: I started trying to shoot USPSA with a P-14. I got base pads from Beven and they worked fine in terms of capacity! The problem that I was having was since the whole cartridge case rides on the mag wall, any (and I mean any) dirt would cause a malfunction. I shoot at Norco where there is no shortage of dirt! (Actually, it is cow crap, but that is another story). I would up dumping mostly full mags sometimes and if I hit a rock or the slab floor on stage 5, the Grams basepad cracked occasionally. Beven always replaced them but I decided to try Dawson for strength. The Dawson was a bit more rugged but the real fix was converting the gun to .40 and not having the drag issues that I had with the .45. I currently use Grams pads on my Para open gun STI big stick with no problems (and 26 rounds of .40!) I will also be going back to Beven's Para .40 pads when he finishes the new design (HINT HINT ) Later, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
born-in-45 Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 ...The only negatives I've seen with my P16 mags have been the resistance to removal of their current protective coating and the garbage springs I got in the last pair of mags I bought from Dawson. They have a parkarized (sp?) look to them. Threw my Para tubes in my Dillon "vibrator" for a 6 hour stint and when they came out there was no protective coating left. Actually left a relatively nice polished surface. Lazy but effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 folsoml I'm betting your springs are kinked a little, probably near the follower. I know any kink that won't allow the spring to compress into itself fully will kill at least 1 round of capacity. A bad kink could explain the follower turning sideways. I put what I would call a "little kink" in a replacement spring this week, likely while I was fighting with the follower install (tight fit). The mag would only hold 19 rounds no matter what I did. The mag should hold 21 rounds. I replaced the spring and the mag was back to 21 rounds again. You could have the same problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul B Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 I've given this formula before so pardon the repetition. All my mags have Dawson basepads except 2 stock ones I use for classifiers. With the stock Para springs and followers they hold 20-21. With a Grams follower and Para springs they hold 22 which means you can start a stage with 23 in the gun. All are dead reliable. Did scotchbrite the interior. If you go to S_I you loose capacity and will still have to work out the same feeding problems. Don't believe all you hear about stock Para springs. They buy a lot of bad parts but the springs have always worked just fine for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohboy Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Has anyone encountered problems with their stock PO mag followers getting stuck after loading the mag with only a couple of rounds? It's happening to me with my P14 and P16 mags. Everything is stock with my mags. Again, this only happens when I load a couple of rounds, but after that everything is fine. I'll also get an occasional FTF with only a couple of rounds left in the mag and I think it's due to the follower getting stuck near the top just like it does when I load the mag. Any ideas or suggestions please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul B Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Dohboy, you can probably use all the ideas above. Use a wood dowel and scotchbrite the heck out of the internal of the mags. Then take a look at the follower. Often the Paras have mold flash that needs to be polished off. Dont take off too much just smooth the follower. Try it with the spring attached and be sure it slides easily all the way up the mag. Then be sure to replace the springs every so often - I do mine once a year. Put a slight upward bend in the top loop of the spring so it kind of gives a little extra push at the front of the follower. One other last thought - take a look at the spring and be sure it is not turning into a helix. the sides should be relativley straight and not twisted. You can twist them straight as a quick repair, but this usually means you should get new ones. Nobody's springs last forever so always have a set of spares. If all else fails get some new mag bodies before we get another AWB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dohboy Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Paul, Thanks for the suggestions and I will give them all a try. I have noticed that a few of my springs have formed the "helix" you had talked about. Now, is it just me or is that black, painted on coating on the para mags hard to remove or what? I'm gonna try some fine grit sandpaper. Thanks again for the suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul B Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 The black coating on Para Mags is hard to remove. I have never tried as the scotchbrite usually takes care of the inside. The outside just looks crappy after a lot of reloads. I think someone earlier said they tumbled theirs and it might do it. The finish is something like the special baked on paint I have put on guns before and it is tough short of sanding. No solvent I know of will remove it after it is baked. It is the same stuff H&K uses on their rifles. Wish Para did not use it. If I could remove it easily I would. Maybe someone will know how to take it off easily as I would rather just blue mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 A well-known mag tuner person uses a torch! Be careful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tnpyeron3 Posted April 4, 2007 Author Share Posted April 4, 2007 (edited) I just wanted to thank everyone that gave me the advice on fixing the Para mags. I ended up polishing the insides with Scotch-Brite, ran them in the case tumbler for 30 minutes each, switched back to the stock Para springs and followers, and coated everything with silicone. I used them last Sunday at the Fredericksburg match and they worked flawlessly with 21 rounds in them, so I think I found the right setup. Thanks again, this forum is always a great source of information from some great people. Edited April 4, 2007 by tnpyeron3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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