Adam B Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 I have a chance to get a Caspian Open gun for cheap or turn my Glock 17 into a cheap open gun. Now I don't plan to shoot many matches with this gun just want to mess around in open and shoot some local steel matches. What route should I go? I know that the Caspian mags are next to impossible to find, which makes me want to go with the glock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 boynty77 How many mags come with the gun? Caspian has 9mm 38Super mags available. Jim Anglin can make a 170mm mag out of two Caspian Mags. So I say go with the Caspian ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam B Posted February 7, 2007 Author Share Posted February 7, 2007 Zero mags come with the caspian. I know Jim, I will call him and see what his thoughts are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 With zero mags the caspian gun is worth zero dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 And at zero dollar value it is still better than an open glock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted February 7, 2007 Share Posted February 7, 2007 And at zero dollar value it is still better than an open glock! Yea, I'd go with the caspian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam B Posted February 8, 2007 Author Share Posted February 8, 2007 And at zero dollar value it is still better than an open glock! Yea, I'd go with the caspian. Matt, You gonna lose business with these kinds of posts, I may not be sending that glock slide to you for milling after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 I really like Glocks, own several of them and shoot them fairly well too but I would go Caspian twice before even thinking about an open Glock. A Glock is a fine tool but my opinion is that trying to make one an open gun makes about as much sense as putting lipstick on a pig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Capizzo Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 I'm a happy Caspian Open shooter. I owned a Glock for about 80 rds once, and I just felt like I would always wish it were something else. The magazine issue for Caspian is not that big a deal in 9mm/.38 Super. Definitely more expensive than Glock mags but they are available. I've got one of Jim Anglin's big sticks for my Caspian and in Super Comp it gives me 29 rounds. Obviously I'm saying go for the Caspian. The 1911 trigger can't be beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 You gonna lose business with these kinds of posts, I may not be sending that glock slide to you for milling after all. Ha. That's ok. I wouldn't wish a open glock upon anyone I like... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiracer Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 With zero mags the caspian gun is worth zero dollars. You should shoot a Caspian before you let anyone tell you about what YOU like in a gun. because the truth is your only going to get advise from all of us, who will tell you what we like , and try to convince you that you should like them too! I have 2 Caspian High caps and Love them , They feel completely different to me then a Polymer frame 1911/2011 ......And worlds different then a Glock.........And i will say that the Magazine thing has been an issue in years past for Caspian but that is no longer a problem!.........They have 9mm/.38super mags in stock and they come factory with a 19 round capacity .........Also I talked to Gary Smith last week and the new .40 S&W mags should be ready for delivery in April so now those of us who have Limited guns can scrap those junky Pro-mag conversions and finally compete with a good magazine platform! You really need to Shoot a Caspian and get a feel for it before you let any of us advise you of what you like in an open gun! P.S. Jake Divita (spelling?) Has shot my Caspian Limited gun and I'll bet he would give you his thoughts on how they feel to draw, reload, and swing! I really like Glocks, own several of them and shoot them fairly well too but I would go Caspian twice before even thinking about an open Glock. A Glock is a fine tool but my opinion is that trying to make one an open gun makes about as much sense as putting lipstick on a pig. Lipstick on a pig! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam B Posted February 8, 2007 Author Share Posted February 8, 2007 I was all set to build an open glock on the cheap but I may just get another STI, no shortage of parts there. Thanks for all of the advice guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBraddy Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 (edited) I really like Glocks, own several of them and shoot them fairly well too but I would go Caspian twice before even thinking about an open Glock. A Glock is a fine tool but my opinion is that trying to make one an open gun makes about as much sense as putting lipstick on a pig. I have 2 Caspian High caps and Love them , They feel completely different to me then a Polymer frame 1911/2011 ......And worlds different then a Glock.........And i will say that the Magazine thing has been an issue in years past for Caspian but that is no longer a problem!.........They have 9mm/.38super mags in stock and they come factory with a 19 round capacity .........Also I talked to Gary Smith last week and the new .40 S&W mags should be ready for delivery in April so now those of us who have Limited guns can scrap those junky Pro-mag conversions and finally compete with a good magazine platform!You really need to Shoot a Caspian and get a feel for it before you let any of us advise you of what you like in an open gun! Well, I'm glad to see this concensus since I just bought a used Caspian (Came with four mags, two big stick, and two regular). Edited February 8, 2007 by JDBraddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Merricks Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Also I talked to Gary Smith last week and the new .40 S&W mags should be ready for delivery in April Did he say April of what year. That is the one thing that has really turned me off about Caspian. I was going to buy one from Matt a while back but you should not have to jump through so many hoops to get mags. That being said I'd go with the Caspian not the Glock for open you have way more options on what you can do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Did he say April of what year. That is the one thing that has really turned me off about Caspian. I was going to buy one from Matt a while back but you should not have to jump through so many hoops to get mags. When Caspian announced the April time frame for delivery, that is the first delivery time announced for the .40 mags. Yes they have been working on them for 2+ years. Remeber that Caspian has taken a project that they did not have in existence prior to 2004. The Caspian Hi-cap frame also provide some design challenges as the frame was designed to have the slimest hi-cap for 38 Super. The frame was designed back when USPSA only had one division and the .40S&W had not even been introduced. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiracer Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Also I talked to Gary Smith last week and the new .40 S&W mags should be ready for delivery in April Did he say April of what year. That is the one thing that has really turned me off about Caspian. I was going to buy one from Matt a while back but you should not have to jump through so many hoops to get mags. That being said I'd go with the Caspian not the Glock for open you have way more options on what you can do with it. Jon, Caspian has 9mm/.38 super mags in stock and if you want a bigstick Jim Anglin will take 2 mag bodys and build you a 170mm magazine that holds 29 rounds...........Which gives you a useable open gun platform. As far as Limited goes, Caspian has been dedicated to producing a quality magazine for their High cap frame.......And Gary is giving a delivery time of April which tells me they are really going to show-up...........I would not be surprised if it was not until May or June because of manufacturing glitches and whatever else is in volved with a new magazine design and production...............but i would be shocked if it didnt happen at all....................The proto-type mags he has that they are building the new ones from have been used in competition and the research and developement has been done to provide us the end user with a quality, usable magazine.................Yes it has been way to long to wait but Gary took a hard line on quality and all of us who have been waiting will be thankful when it's over! I hope this helps you.....................And maybe disspells alot of rumors that have been flying around about not being able to get mags for a High Capacity Caspian. Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 When Caspian announced the April time frame for delivery, that is the first delivery time announced for the .40 mags. Yes they have been working on them for 2+ years. Remeber that Caspian has taken a project that they did not have in existence prior to 2004. The Caspian Hi-cap frame also provide some design challenges as the frame was designed to have the slimest hi-cap for 38 Super. The frame was designed back when USPSA only had one division and the .40S&W had not even been introduced. Alan The first Caspian Hi-caps I remember seeing were in the early 90s....maybe 91? Were they around much before that? I definitely recall more than one division then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 The first Caspian Hi-caps came out in the 1990-91 time frame if I remember correctly. Also if I am remembering correctly when limited division was first created the only guns initially allowed were the singlestack 1911's and a few others, (Glock 17, Beretta, etc). USPSA had the 500 produced rule in effect at the time and none of the S_I hi-caps met that number initially. The other hi-caps in play at that time were the P-9 and Para Ord, All were basically built as open guns. Regardless the design concept of the Caspian Hi-Cap engineered around the 38 Super case. The Para-Ordance and S_I frames are designed around the .45 case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 I never said an open glock was the way to go. Just suggesting that you want to only buy a Caspian if there are mags with it - enough to shoot a match with. I've owned, shot and won local matches with all three - Caspian 38S, Glock 9Major, and STI and of the 3 I'd strongly recommend STI. The Caspian HiCap came out in 1990. The internal mag dimensions of the Caspian super mag [no ridges] are almost identical to the Para and STI mags WITH ridges. Para mags were built to doublestack 14 rounds of 45acp. Same deal with STI. Their 45 mags did not stack Super ammo correctly until they narrowed the interior. Caspian mags were built to doublestack 19 round of Super. So they stack 40cal a little on the thin side [less rounds] but with the 140/141mm rule they hold enough. I have opinions on Caspian, their quality, their response to the Hillary Law, their response to the Hillary Law sunset, and so on. If you're curious, PM me, it's not all happy & nice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted February 8, 2007 Share Posted February 8, 2007 Years ago I built several guns on caspian frames and slides. The customer service,and the quality were both OUTSTANDING! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjanglin Posted February 9, 2007 Share Posted February 9, 2007 Guys you can use TZ mags =EAA will supply them to you,CPMI has a base pad that will fit the TZ style mags,brownells carry these.The folks at EAA are aware of the mags and and what you need. You have to modify the top of the TZ mags to match the aprofile of a caspian mag so they fit up in the frame. go real slow too much and mag is junk. I get 19 rounds in the ones I have done. Arrendondo makes a spring and follower Kit that works real good in the TZ mags.I have one set up I get 20 in but its been so flippin cold I Havent had a chance to play with it. Caspian has all the 38 super type mags ya need. Ive got one of the proto(40) types that Caspian is coming out with they are going to be nice in my opinion. Garys doing a good job on this mag set up, a lot of folks have helped him out as if he needs it Gary is pretty dang sharp!!! Im building a 40 now for me that is using Caspians Hi-Cap with the light rail and the new extractor set up, Ive been so busy I have a hard time doing my toys,. Jim Anglin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBraddy Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 (edited) I've owned, shot and won local matches with all three - Caspian 38S, Glock 9Major, and STI and of the 3 I'd strongly recommend STI.The Caspian HiCap came out in 1990. The internal mag dimensions of the Caspian super mag [no ridges] are almost identical to the Para and STI mags WITH ridges. Para mags were built to doublestack 14 rounds of 45acp. Same deal with STI. Their 45 mags did not stack Super ammo correctly until they narrowed the interior. Caspian mags were built to doublestack 19 round of Super. So they stack 40cal a little on the thin side [less rounds] but with the 140/141mm rule they hold enough. I have opinions on Caspian, their quality, their response to the Hillary Law, their response to the Hillary Law sunset, and so on. If you're curious, PM me, it's not all happy & nice... I've never fired a Glock, any Glock, but I have a Goldcup that I shoot CDP/L-10 with. and I know that I like 1911's. When I decided I wanted to try shooting open class, I looked around at what others where using. S_I's pretty much seem to rule this division. However, I quickly discovered a new S_I open rig would cost $3K or more just for the gun, plus another grand or so for accessories. I knew I couldn't afford that much, and didn't want to finance the equivilent of another car payment, so I started looking at used options. I heard another shooter in my club was selling his Capian. Having shot with him, I knew it worked well and was reliable. When I asked, he offered it to me with misc. spare parts, C-More sight, four mags, holster, dies, 1500 pieces of brass, 500 bullets, and four pounds of powder for $1400. He'd already developed and tested correct loads for the gun, and would still be around to help me with any problems. So I could have a complete functional rig, with everything I needed to shoot open class at a match, including ammo, for around $1500. If I decide I don't like open class for whatever reason, I'm sure I can still recover most of my investment. If at some point I decide I "need" an S_I, then I'm sure I'll be able find what I want used, or provided I can scratch together the $$$, have it built. Then if I choose, I can always keep the Caspian as a backup gun, or sell it and have some money to spend on reloading components or other toys. It seemed like a no-brainer to me. I've kind of softened on the political manipulation thing. Few people will ever see things as I do, and being leftist doesn't automaticly mean that they're evil, or stupid, It just means that they're wrong!!! Most will never be swayed, but there are better ways to persuade the few who can, than simply telling them they are wrong, then refusing to deal with them. Edited February 10, 2007 by JDBraddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Wonder Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Let's be clear of the facts...........Caspian produces 0 (zero) firearms, only components. Mag availability has been an issue over they years. Caspian would not sell replacement mag tubes to those who broke their hi-cap mags and wanted to repair them during the AWB era (soon to come back). The value of a Caspian based pistol relys solely on the pistolsmoth who builds it. Having to weld two mag tubes together to get a 170mm tube is not very convenient. For low cost, high quality, and with a readily available supply of mags with a myriad of options for +round count bases, Glock is certainly the better choice. For ready to race Open Glocks check out: S&J Customs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam B Posted February 10, 2007 Author Share Posted February 10, 2007 I am going to have an open sti gun built for me, thanks for all of the input guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBraddy Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Let's be clear of the facts...........Caspian produces 0 (zero) firearms, only components. Mag availability has been an issue over they years. Caspian would not sell replacement mag tubes to those who broke their hi-cap mags and wanted to repair them during the AWB era (soon to come back).The value of a Caspian based pistol relys solely on the pistolsmoth who builds it. Having to weld two mag tubes together to get a 170mm tube is not very convenient. For low cost, high quality, and with a readily available supply of mags with a myriad of options for +round count bases, Glock is certainly the better choice. For ready to race Open Glocks check out: S&J Customs Why did you feel any of these points needed clairification? I don't believe my post indicated otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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