rhgunguy Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 I love my CZs, and I am in the market to upgrade my limited gun from an older P14.45 Limited. The thing is that no one around carries CZs so I can't realy even look one over before buying it. The other thing I am wondering is how does the CZ stack up against S_Is? I am talking in terms of mag capacity, muzzle flip, felt recoil, availability of mag extensions, etc... For that matter how does it stack up if I were to get a new P16.40 Limited, build my own from Caspian or upgrade my Glock 35. If you were to do it, how would you rate my options from best to worst. I see all the nice guns all tricked out that you guys have as avatars and I would like to have my own neat little blaster so your advice and experience is appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 (edited) First of all the G35 will not be the limiting factor on your march to Master. I have put a few rounds through a CZ Tactical. I would rate it equal to any of the over priced STI guns. I would also take a look at the Witness Limited. These guns can be had for half the cost of a STI. Too bad those idiots at Charles Daly don't bring in the BUL M5. You already have the most versatile gun made in the G35. You can shoot it in Limited, Limited 10, Production, SSP and ESP. It is easy to have 20 round mags. A little tweaking will get you 21. Edited January 28, 2007 by Joe D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 (edited) I love my CZs, and I am in the market to upgrade my limited gun from an older P14.45 Limited. The thing is that no one around carries CZs so I can't realy even look one over before buying it.The other thing I am wondering is how does the CZ stack up against S_Is? I am talking in terms of mag capacity, muzzle flip, felt recoil, availability of mag extensions, etc... For that matter how does it stack up if I were to get a new P16.40 Limited, build my own from Caspian or upgrade my Glock 35. If you were to do it, how would you rate my options from best to worst. I see all the nice guns all tricked out that you guys have as avatars and I would like to have my own neat little blaster so your advice and experience is appreciated. I own STIs & SVs as well as owning 2 older versions of the TS until recently. Overall, I think the TS is BETTER than the STIs and SVs I have owne & built because: -The CZ is reliable right out of the box. Experiences vary w/ folks buying S_I guns - you might get lucky and an S_I gun works 100% for you - or your new S_I might require a lot of gunsmithing and a lot of load testing to get it reliable. Ever notice how many custom S_I smiths are out there? The TS is designed to take factory length ammo and will reliably take loads up to 1.170" OAL -It does not need a trigger job. Mine were both 2 lbs., zero Oz. when new and broke in at 1.75 lbs. The new gun I handled at a store recently was the same - as was a friend's gun. Plus the adjustments are done by you w/ an allen wrench (included). Virtually no overtravel and very short reset. Just like STI, it comes with a light polymer trigger. -It won't follow or double. Niether of mine ever have had this difficulty. It seems to happen eventually w/ light triggers in other brands. -Capacity is a reliable/reloadable 20 with Taylor Freelance mag base. -Its accurate as heck! -The rear sight on the TS acts as a slide racker and there are adjustable sights & fiber optics for it if you want those - plus mag wells, grips, holsters, etc. So why is it better? Because it sells for about $900 brand new and works as well or better than a $1600 to $2000 .40 from another maker. That difference in price pays for a lot of ammo. Downsides? The gun is heavy - remember that the reigning Limited gun is a light Glock - but I prefer a heavier gun for .40. AND the grip is a bit large for some hands- though that is easily fixed. More info: www.ghostholster.com www.czshooters.com www.strictlyIPSC.com Regards, D. PS as for Glock mags, "It is easy to have 20 round mags. A little tweaking will get you 21." - the Glock's mags are really good. That is simply a fact. Both the CZ and the S_I really benefit from keeping the mag clean - particularly if either brand mag falls into the sand or mud during a stage. Edited January 28, 2007 by Carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Maybe when folks start buying other lower priced options, that are just as good, the folks at STI/SVI will get their prices in line. Maybe I am just stupid but how can STI/SVI continue to justify $1600-$1800 for a gun that should sell for $800-$900. On a similar note Lone Wolf Dist. has come out with a Glock aftermarket barrel that has a retail price of $89. That barrel is just as good as the $160+ KKM/Bar-Sto barrels. LWD is selling all they can make. I really liked helping LWD develop that barrel. KKM and Bar-Sto are both feeling the pinch. I guess I somewhat enjoy seeing these companies that have ripped off folks for years start to struggle. Can I afford an STI/SVI - easily. I could buy 10 of them and not even blink. It just boils down to I refuse to be played a chump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatepickles Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 I like the TS, feel free to search for some of my other posts about the TS. If there's an achilles heal to this pistol, it's the weight. The poster asked how the TS handled recoil, and it soaks up recoil really well. The weight makes this possible, but it also slows down transitions between targets. I've seen people project guns with chopped down dustcovers and I bet those are quick guns. I don't want folks to think this gun won't shoot, it will. I'm just offering the other side of the coin. Heavy guns absorb recoil well but that's not the only criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 I like mine, but until I get some weight off of it I'm not gonna dump either of my Para P16's. As stated earlier, trigger is great and functionality is flawless right out of the box. I've added a fiber optic front sight, lighter recoil spring, thin aluminum grips, magwell, and Taylor Freelance basepads. With no mods, I have 19 rounds reloadable. As it sits, I shoot it great. Am I as fast with it as my Para's? No. I can definately feel the weight difference. But looking at Jonny's website (strictlyIPSC) he has made some awesome mods that I'm working up the stones to try. Trimming the dustcover down, mill out some portions of the slide mainly. Am I giving up on it? NO WAY! This gun will work for me and I'm looking foreward to using it more. That, and getting a 6" fat free... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceghost Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Trimming the dustcover down, mill out some portions of the slide mainly. Angus has been doing this to the TS as well and also fitting the lighter Cz75 slides to the TS frame. I have several Witness and Cz pistols and think they are great and a real value for what you get. Great ergonomics and soft shooting in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twister Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 I've got both the 9mm and a 40, and like both the pistols very much. I don't think you can go wrong with this pistol. Anything you need is available from Angus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhgunguy Posted January 29, 2007 Author Share Posted January 29, 2007 Thanks for all the great responses! I think I will go with the CZ TS. I happen to like a heavier gun and am gifted with large hands(large enough that I put houges on my 14.45 to fill out the grip). Now were can I find these taylor basepads? I did a serch on google but came up with Glock stuff. Also, where can I find out more about some of the work that these smiths are doing on the TS? Someone mentioned the Witness line. Are they every bit as good or should I stick with the TS? Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Angus and Matt Mink are the guys to talk to about the TS... they both have versions cutting down the dustcover and lightening the slide to change handling characteristics.. Triggers on the TS are good from the factory..2.5# or so...Matt and Angus can get them even better.. Angus also has the AL thin grips and magwells to fit the gun...makes it even better www.ghostholster.com and Robin Taylor has the basepads.. www.taylorfreelance.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 One of my buds has a TS. He put some of the aluminum grips on his. What a difference they make!! Anyone can grip this gun now. I have heard CZ is coming out with a short dust cover model this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abs Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 One of my buds has a TS. He put some of the aluminum grips on his. What a difference they make!! Anyone can grip this gun now. I have heard CZ is coming out with a short dust cover model this year. The Witness Limited is worth a look. Retails for around 950.00 and with Grams guts and Arredondo G-17 pads 20 reloadable. I picked one up a month or so ago, have put about 2k rounds through it and 0 malfunctions, very soft shooting. Henning managed a sixth place finish at Nats with it. abs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemo Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 (edited) I don't own a CZ or a Tanfo but really like them both. The only complaint I have with the competition versions (not up to date with the nomenclature) is that my thumb can't reach the safety without changing my grip. Does anybody make an extended thumb safety for these? It would have to extend rearwards for me to reach it. Couple more questions: Is the TS the only .40 in the CZ lineup? The mags are listed as having a 16 round capacity, what are the required mods and accesories to get them to compete with the S_I 140mm tubes? How much $ are the mags? Thanks! Edited January 29, 2007 by Nemo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_pinto Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 I don't own a CZ or a Tanfo but really like them both. The only complaint I have with the competition versions (not up to date with the nomenclature) is that my thumb can't reach the safety without changing my grip. Does anybody make an extended thumb safety for these? It would have to extend rearwards for me to reach it.Couple more questions: Is the TS the only .40 in the CZ lineup? The mags are listed as having a 16 round capacity, what are the required mods and accesories to get them to compete with the S_I 140mm tubes? How much $ are the mags? Thanks! The TS .40 Mags are 17+1. Taylor Freelance makes pads that will give you +2 (at least). You can work the springs and followers and get 20 reloadable. The mags are $40-45 through www.ghostholster.com. That is Angus' website. Most of the CZ 75's have a .40 option, however alot of them only have a 12 round capability. They are coming out with a new TS with a short dustcover. It will have the same trigger and sights but a little lighter. EAA has a nice Witness Elite that is basically the same as the TS, but about 150 smackers cheaper. It comes with a magwell and a great trigger. They also have the new Witness Match in .40, 9mm, 45, etc.. They look like they can compete out of the box and are only about $500. Henning does pretty well with the EAA's, as well as supports them.. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemo Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Thanks Mike! Let me keep asking and please excuse my ignorance. Why the round capacity difference between the TS and the other CZ 40s', different frames? Do you think the Tanfo Stock could double as a Production and Limited gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middle Man Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 (edited) Hi I'm Jeremy, I shoot a CZ TS 40 and (full disclosure) I sell CZ's at the wholesale level too. The TS in stock configuration is at the heavier end of the spectrum, but I like it that way right now because I shoot factory ball (I wholesale a lot of different ammo brands too). The weight helps to keep the gun flat. Remove some of the dust cover and most of the extra weight is gone (see Angus' modifications). The aluminum grips that Angus offers really thins the gun out and the magwell can be nicely fitted with 15 minutes, a file, and some masking tape (my first time to put a file to a pistol). I just shot a few stages over the weekend with 165gr Blazer at a published muzzle of 1100fps for a 181.5 Power Factor. The flip and felt recoil were minimal and I could see the sights lift when I was shooting at the right pace for me. Too fast in the splits and those little details fly out the window with any gun platform. I've also shot minor 135PF loads that were like shooting a 22lr. Options on magazine bases to add capacity (over the standard 17 rounds of .40) are pretty much limited to Taylor Freelance at present. You can make use of a Pearce Grip # PG-G9P2 to add one more round, but you'll need to use some foil tape to cover the gap at the back of the mag to keep it clean and happy. The Euro to Dollar exchange are making all guns from Europe creep up in price these days. However a CZ TS could still be had for under $1000 and additional mags at 40 bucks. The TS in 9mm holds 19 rounds and would (in my opinion) be really trick for steel or some of the 3 gun matches that don't really care about power factors. Heck, I'd like to buy a 9 just to practice/play with... Thanks Mike! Let me keep asking and please excuse my ignorance. Why the round capacity difference between the TS and the other CZ 40s', different frames?Do you think the Tanfo Stock could double as a Production and Limited gun? Frame and magazine size on the TS is bigger than a standard CZ 75. My regular CZ 75 mags rattle around in the TS frame... Edited January 29, 2007 by Middle Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhgunguy Posted January 29, 2007 Author Share Posted January 29, 2007 Okay, I was just in my local gun store to ask about getting one ordered. THe price is $1000. Is that resonable? How many mags does it come with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middle Man Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 (edited) Okay, I was just in my local gun store to ask about getting one ordered. THe price is $1000. Is that resonable? How many mags does it come with? Reasonable, yes. $1184 is suggested retail. Three magazines. Edited January 30, 2007 by Middle Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 I thought they came with three mags, slidestops, etc?? did CZ change that when they went from the IPSC Std to the TS?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypersonic Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 I just put one on order and was told a little over $900. Hopefully it won't take too long to get one and I can let you know how I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogiebb Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 (edited) from what i know the CZ TS comes with 3 17rnd mags a bag of buffs,extra slidestops cleaning rod,big blue box etc..i have a CZ IPSC which was given to me by my Fiance to start shooting again i still have the gun and have done a couple of stuff to it to make it reliable ...the first few matches i shot with it i had a ton of problems like feed ramp jams and more...it shoots great with factory loads from winchester white box and remington UMC...but i found shooting factory way to snappy for my taste..but a few polishing and dremeling will make it very reliable..here is a list of mods i had to do in order to make it run for me... installed fiber optic sight Ghostholster grips and magwell changed to 14 pound recoil spring 15# hammer spring (mainspring) ground off the bottom of the breechface (where rim of brass contacts slide) Matt Minks and Carlos mag tips to get 20 rounds on the mags (taylor freelance pads) polished off a few trigger parts for a much better pull( a good CZ guy helped me with this..thanks Sam ) ground off and polished all rough parts from slide and ambi safety bent the plate covering the mainspring to make sure the mags drop free adjusted the pre travel and over travel screws (look in strictly IPSC for instructions) the gun runs great from factory but i just did all this stuff to make sure they run well with my ammo...it now looks all ugly because of all the grinding and polishing but i plan to send it to Tripp for hardchrome once i get my open gun from Derek Edited January 30, 2007 by ogiebb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Looks pretty darn good to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ogiebb Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Looks pretty darn good to me. thanks ....some of the bluing came off when i took of some rough edges with a 600 grit sand paper...im still debating if i want it hardchromed or poly coated all black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemo Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 I just wish I could reach that safety... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_pinto Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Nemo, The EAA/Tang Witness Elite Stock is a DA/SA gun so I think it would be a great Production/Limited rig. I am of the belief that you might consider seperate guns for Production and Limited. If I were going to shoot production and limited (I shoot mostly 3-gun) I would take a hard look at the EAA's . I am a CZ guy, but it seems like EAA/Tanfoglio is making better competition guns on the cheap. I think I would get the Witness Match in .40 or the Elite Limited for Limited and the Stock for Production. If going the CZ route, I would get the TS in .40 for Limited and the SP01 for production. If you are interested in the CZ line, call Matt Mink or Angus Hobdell and just ask the questions. They are great guys, as you may already know and will answer all of your questions. If you think the EAA route may be where you want to go, give Henning Walgren a call. He is a great guy and is the most knowledgable in the US on the EAA/Tanfoglio line. One thing to remember is that the CZ's and the Tanfoglio's are the most shot guns in competition in the world, just not in the US YET!!! Man, after re-reading this monster post, I think I should work for the two importers!! Angus, Matt, Henning, Any jobs open?? Mike BTW, About the safety reach on the TS... If you have a buddy that welds, it wouldn't take much to make an extension!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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