Electronic Fail Safe For 550

[41mag]

This thread hit a nerve with me as I have just recently bought a 550b and a 25-2.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=43946

I relized when I first started loading how easy it would be to double charge and have been paying very close attention. It would appear thou that Murphys law is still alive and well.

Today I am going to make my 550 a little safer. I am starting to build an electronic circuit to monitor my press and inform and warn me by means of lights and buzzers.

My first thought was to only alarm if a possiable double charge occured, after reading about all the squibs I am considering monitoring for shell plate index without powder drop.

I am posting here to get feed back on what the system should do based on your experience.

I am going to try to keep it simple and cheap. I must admit that I am tempted to use a microcontroller and really stack on the bells and whistles.

Let me hear your ideas please. If all works out well I can make this available to any one who wants one.

thanks for your input,

41mag

[figjam]

I have taught myself to look into the case after the powder drop as I am turning the index, I notice any major variation in the charge, a number of times I have noticed the powder a bit high and found crap that hadn't vibrated out in the cleaning. I put a case feeder on a few months ago, it makes it even harder to inadverntly double charge. Good luck figuring out the electronics I'll stick to my eyes.

[Bill Jones]

Hello all, 1st post.

I use a 650 for this very reason. I use the dillon power check system. It is my understanding that if you are willing to seat and crimp in the same station you can use the powder check on the 550.

What we really need is Dillon to build a new press like the 650 that gives the operator the option of auto indexing and manual indexing. I don't know if this is even a possibility but I would bet a lot of people would update/upgrade

[Chris Keen]

No one I know of is willing to seat / crimp in the same station, so the Powder Check is only a viable option on the 650.

I load on a 550 and I know with just a glance if I have dropped powder or not. 1st of all, the 550 has the powder die a little more up front than the 650 does. 2nd-ly if you load a powder that fills at least half of the case full of powder then if you double charge, YOU WILL KNOW IT! And lastly, I can look at the status of the case in the bullet seating station, and know whether or not I have pulled the op. handle.

For example say I had to get up to go to the fridge, or bathroom, etc. and when I return I wonder where I left off. I can look at the case in the #3 position and if there is a "seated bullet" on top of that case I know I have pulled the handle. But if there is NO BULLET or the bullet is not seated, then I have not pulled the handle, therefore no powder drop.

Your EYES are still your best way to verify powder drop.

[vluc]

+1 on the eyes have it.

I have a halogen goose-neck lamp seated next to my 550b, with the light shining directly into station 2. When that powder funnel lifts up, I can see into the case and see the amount of powder - quick visual check #1. When I rotate the shell plate, I still have bright light shining into station 3, and as I set the bullet in place, I re-affirm the visual level of the powder - visual #2. Since I know at a glance with my load where it should be, the likelihood of a double becomes slim.

A double for me nearly fills the case, and a single is about half way, so any visual check shows me if I a) did not get a charge in there, if the charge is correct or c) if I doubled.

Edited January 27, 2007 by vluc

[epj]

+1 on the eyes have it.

I have a halogen goose-neck lamp seated next to my 550b, with the light shining directly into station 2. When that powder funnel lifts up, I can see into the case and see the amount of powder - quick visual check #1. When I rotate the shell plate, I still have bright light shining into station 3, and as I set the bullet in place, I re-affirm the visual level of the powder - visual #2. Since I know at a glance with my load where it should be, the likelihood of a double becomes slim.

A double for me nearly fills the case, and a single is about half way, so any visual check shows me if I a) did not get a charge in there, if the charge is correct or c) if I doubled.

I have a similar rig next to my 550. With .45's it's easy to see the powder charge as I place a bullet on the casing. However, with .38/.357 the tall skinny case is harder to see into.

[TDean]

Perhaps a proximity sensor of some type?

[John Heiter]

Hey 41Mag,

Sorry I can't offer any advice on the circuitry but I know next to nothing about that stuff and it sounds like you're way ahead of me if you're looking at taking on a project like this.

I mainly just wanted to weigh in when I saw all the responses from people advising you to stick with your eyes because they are the "best" method. They offer a lot of good advice on using a powder charge that will overflow the case on doubles, adequate lighting, etc. but I want to say please don't stop there. Eyes are the best method for checking charges on a 550 now, but that doesn't mean they always have to be. I'm betting that every person who has every blown up a barrel because of a double charge from their 550 used the "visual" inspection too. If you think you can build a better mouse trap then go for it.

John

[MichiganShootist]

I Agree With John.

I use the visual check and press mounted light too with my 550... but so does an experienced reloading friend of mine who blew up a classic old 38 spl. last year with a double charge of TiteGroup. He wasn't hurt but he ruined a great old pistol and scared the Hell out of every one on the range.

I use that powder too and am considering a change... just because it takes so little to make a major in a .45

On my press it is possible to more than triple my normal load and not overflow the case. Obviously that would be seen....

But...At the end of a day long reloading session.....I'd love a better mouse trap too.

The only technical thing I can suggest .... is that those of us who use mixed brass will tell you there is enough weight variation that it's impossible to "catch" a double charge by any form of weight scheme.

Edited January 29, 2007 by MichiganShootist

[41mag]

Yes, I too run a set up with light,reading glasses etc. I have a SOP that I follow to a tee. The visual on the bigger hand guns with the small charges can't be seen from the angle you must look in from and there for I am watching the charge bar in that case. I have loaded for years on the single stage presses and have put a ton or two of powder thru my Mec 12ga reloader which is very much like the 550 (manual index). I am convinced that I could load ammo on the 550 for the rest of my life without any problems, but...I bet every one that blew up a gun felt the same way till it happened to them.

What I'm thinking here is something simple and cheap that adds a little bit of assurance to the process.

I have already built the first proto type circuit and am testing off line. I still need to figure out which switchs and where and how to mount. The later being as hard or harder than the circuit itself. Because I want it to still be easy to do caliber conversions with out setting up the whole switch thing every time.

The circuit I have right now uses two IC chips, (cheap). Depending on the switches,( they could be the expensive part) this thing shouldnt cost to much to make. I am trying to find some cheap switches that will work.

This is the basic idea.....the circuit will have two lights and a buzzer. One green and one red (go/nogo). The green light would indicate its ok to charge the case as you have just indexed the shell plate. When the charge bar moves far enough that some or all of the powder could of dropped the light will change to red. Red means dont drop powder again cause you havnt indexed yet. If the charge bar moves to the same position just decribed before you index the shell plate the buzzer will sound and the red light will remain on. It works on pulses from the switches so how fast or how slow you operate the press wont matter.

I am thinking about checking that the charge bar is home with the circuit but this might not be nessasary right? The 550 mechenically moves the charge bar home with linkage and not springs so if the press handle goes home so does the charge bar...right?

Any way folks, I'm just playing around, not trying to get rich . A couple of winters ago I got layed up with a bad back, my wife hooked a "TENS" unit up to me (sends electrical pulses to your muscles). It was kind of like the spider man thing...for months after all I did was learn about electronics .

I got to get back to the bench, I'll talk at you all in a few days. thanks

41mag

[NoTenX]

Because of a head injury I lacked confidence that my reloads were safe and I contemplated a failsafe also. There are many possibilities of hesitation during primming and other operation of the lever that i observed that could reult in dangerous loads. You have to monitor that the lever goes fully in single directions with no hysteris the wheel is indexed at right momemt powder bar travels full direction again with no hysterisis.. I decided that unless all these critical motions monitor no guarante could be offered and there still might be a mothode that powder might hang up in measure. solder paste volume, road roughness, is measure by laser height guages were a beam at an angle moves left or right dependingg on height of object. volume can be calculated. the dillon powder failsafe does this in the 5 station or more presses. This would be more cost effective that laser measurement. the electronic systm has too many changes of failing so liability would be high and could not afford to be sued. cheaper to buy a 650, although if you search previous post on this forum a powder sensor was adapted to a 550 tool head. I elected to get a 650,I use the brain a a chanted matra to do the 550 ABC shuffle and eyeball charge, no distractions. not meant to discourage.you have to throw out others thoughts if you think they are not vaolid including mine

[bkeeler]

How about a cctv camera mounted to look in the case with a monitor on the load bench

bk

[Lee Bell]

Today I am going to make my 550 a little safer. I am starting to build an electronic circuit to monitor my press and inform and warn me by means of lights and buzzers.

My first thought was to only alarm if a possiable double charge occured, after reading about all the squibs I am considering monitoring for shell plate index without powder drop.

I am posting here to get feed back on what the system should do based on your experience.

There are three mistakes I've made, or come close to making:

1. No primer seated. Usually, I can feel the primer seat, but not always.

2. Double powder charge. I've never seated a bullet on a double powder charge, but I've caught a few just before I did. It's not hard to do with a manually indexing press. The most common cause, for me, has been failing to place a bullet in the seating stage. It's just to damned easy to pick one up and correct the mistake without realizing that you've already charged the case in the second station.

3. Squib loads. I have created a few of these. Usually, I have to be a bit more creative in making a mistake to put together a squib. Obvsiously, since I did it, I was creative enough. I suspect that what I did was weight the powder charge in station 2, failing to return the powder to the case when I returned the case to the press, but that's just a guess.

If you can handle the double and squib issues in a way that can be added to a 550B or Square Deal press without making them as expensive as a 650, you will have a marketable product. If you can figure a way to ensure a new primer is seated, you'll have it all.

Good luck. We'll be waiting, but not patiently.

Lee

[R/T Performance]

Anybody try a lock out Die?

I relize you would have to seat and crimp in the same station but it would be worth it if it save you a gun?

[markwilliston]

I'm new to reloading, been doing it for a year on the 550. Fortunately had somebody with a lot of experience go through the setup with me.

Follow the same steps every time:

Pull the handle

left thumb rotates to next station

right hand puts empty brass into 1st station

left hand puts bullet at station three

Pull the handle

left thumb rotates to next station

right hand puts empty brass into 1st station

left hand puts bullet at station three

etc....

If you have a screwup-primer didn't seat, bullet didn't seat and crushed case, somebody comes and talks to you, the phone rings, whatever.

STOP

look at station 2, is there any powder in the case? YES or NO, if there is any question in your mind at that point. Back up, from station one you will get a primed case, from station two you will get a case with powder in it so dump it, from station three you will have a case case with powder in it, dump it. Station 4 allready had a seated bullet.

If you follow the same procedure every single time, the same thing comes out of the press every single time.

You don't want to rely on an electronic device to save you from irregular operation.

Mark

[AWLAZS]

I'm new to reloading, been doing it for a year on the 550. Fortunately had somebody with a lot of experience go through the setup with me.

Follow the same steps every time:

Pull the handle

left thumb rotates to next station

right hand puts empty brass into 1st station

left hand puts bullet at station three

Pull the handle

left thumb rotates to next station

right hand puts empty brass into 1st station

left hand puts bullet at station three

etc....

If you have a screwup-primer didn't seat, bullet didn't seat and crushed case, somebody comes and talks to you, the phone rings, whatever.

STOP

look at station 2, is there any powder in the case? YES or NO, if there is any question in your mind at that point. Back up, from station one you will get a primed case, from station two you will get a case with powder in it so dump it, from station three you will have a case case with powder in it, dump it. Station 4 allready had a seated bullet.

If you follow the same procedure every single time, the same thing comes out of the press every single time.

You don't want to rely on an electronic device to save you from irregular operation.

Mark

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This has kept me out of trouble for a long time

Edited February 6, 2007 by AWLAZS

[tomj44]

Hi,

I'm new here, and I don't post very often anywhere I go. But I'm very interested in any type of safety device you come up with. I tried to use small mirrors to see in the case better, but there's no room. I would buy a device that insures the correct charge in a 550 as long as seating and crimping remain 2 steps.

Tom