38supPat Posted April 15, 2011 Author Share Posted April 15, 2011 Also I don't think I posted this before, I noticed a real breakthrough in my dryfire sessions this winter. When sighting on either a target or a blank wall and watching the sights (dot) tracing its normal movement (wobble) I noticed that for the first time,(or at least the first time I really noticed) that when the hammer dropped there was no change in the dots movement. I suspect that I was either blinking or turning my vision off at the "click" of the hammer falling as I would have the image of the dot frozen on where it had been when I pulled the trigger or I would see the extra movement just prior to the hammer falling from anything I was doing to cause the gun to move, either flinching or jerking etc. but nothing after. Instead now I saw the dot continue it's movement as if nothing had happened. The dot continued the same movement before during and after the trigger was pulled and the hammer fell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted April 16, 2011 Author Share Posted April 16, 2011 I also found the Transition drill (part two) helped a lot, I haven't tried it live fire yet but just in dryfiring it I have noticed improvement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted April 16, 2011 Author Share Posted April 16, 2011 Your index position (avatar) looks rock solid. be Thanks, at least some things are improving!...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted April 22, 2011 Author Share Posted April 22, 2011 Loaded another 400 today, I'll try going out tomorrow depending on weather and I'll video some of my runs. Any requests?...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxman Posted April 22, 2011 Share Posted April 22, 2011 How about some seeklander movement drills, and some Max's Tripple six drill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted April 22, 2011 Author Share Posted April 22, 2011 What's the Seeklander drill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted April 22, 2011 Author Share Posted April 22, 2011 Ahhh, just looked it up, I might do a couple of those I had one in mind that would simulate moving through some barricades. Something like this: String one, toes against fault line at one end, on signal draw and engage T1 from the left, right and two center ports in any order two rounds from each position String two, toes against opposite end fault line, on signal draw and engage T1 from the left, right and two center ports in any order two rounds from each position String three, heels against center of rear fault line, on signal draw and engage T1 from the left, right and two center ports in any order two rounds from each position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 In the movement drills why are you pulling the gun back and poking it back out every time you move? Stay further back from the no shoot target wall so you can keep the gun fully mounted while moving from one position to the next. Another thing to consider is that you can smooth out the whole process and shoot sooner by continually moving towards the end of the string while you are in each shooting position. As you are doing it you are moving hard to each shooting position, stopping to shoot, then getting going again to move to the next shooting position. If you keep your feet moving through the middle of the drill instead of planting you would end up with longer on target splits but much better target to target transition times. As far as the stand and shoot videos I am not sure you are fully testing your skill set. Look at the difference in your stance while shooting the stand and shoot verses the movement shooting. There is a huge difference in how low you are when shooting the movement drill verses the standing one. Maybe it would be more effective to start the three target drill outside of the target shooting position then enter it aggressively and engage the targets. Doing that will test more of your overall movement and shooting skills while at the same time keeping it very realistic to what you would be required to do most of the time during a stage run. Other than that my only other suggestion is to shoot at practice targets that mimic exactly what you will see in a match. I don't know what is done at the local matches where you shoot, but for me we never have a single hard cover line and then brown cardboard showing below that. Calling your shots and processing your sight picture is 100% visual and you train your brain to quickly process known images/conditions then make the appropriate decision subconsciously. Practicing with targets that are not what you will see in a match is counter productive. At least I know it is for me. Kind of like people dry firing by using light switches or pictures on a wall for targets. We never shoot at these things in a match so the training of "Seeing what you need to see" is polluted by practicing with invalid targets. I have always been a stickler for this myself as I know it will significantly impact my training in a negative way. But for others it does not affect them at all so who knows. Just something to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted April 25, 2011 Share Posted April 25, 2011 In the movement drills why are you pulling the gun back and poking it back out every time you move? Stay further back from the no shoot target wall so you can keep the gun fully mounted while moving from one position to the next. I would try experimenting with that. You might find that just a little forward gun movement will help the gun center up and stop more quickly on the center of each target. Or you might not. Another thing to consider is that you can smooth out the whole process and shoot sooner by continually moving towards the end of the string while you are in each shooting position. As you are doing it you are moving hard to each shooting position, stopping to shoot, then getting going again to move to the next shooting position. If you keep your feet moving through the middle of the drill instead of planting you would end up with longer on target splits but much better target to target transition times. That's good stuff. Although it feels natural and faster to be a little "crouchy" when moving around, it isn't. Watch a master Judo guy moving around - he keeps his feet pretty much under his shoulders at all times. To me, your stand and shoot position looks rock solid. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share Posted April 25, 2011 In the movement drills why are you pulling the gun back and poking it back out every time you move? Stay further back from the no shoot target wall so you can keep the gun fully mounted while moving from one position to the next. Another thing to consider is that you can smooth out the whole process and shoot sooner by continually moving towards the end of the string while you are in each shooting position. As you are doing it you are moving hard to each shooting position, stopping to shoot, then getting going again to move to the next shooting position. If you keep your feet moving through the middle of the drill instead of planting you would end up with longer on target splits but much better target to target transition times FWIW my transitions were in the .75 range going across that drill. And my total times were in the 4.45 range for both the left and right movement with the middle start running 4.7. I had the feeling that continually moving across might be better when I was shooting it but the way the target sets up makes it feel like you need to go the way I did, not sure why... The single target was at 10 yds and was fairly centered when shooting from the middle two ports but the end ones you needed to reach around a bit for it. One of my first runs, I didn't tape it, I tried to stay moving and ended up only firing one per port because I was moving too aggressively and was heading out of the port before I had both shots off. Thats one of my problems, when I shoot on the move I tend to move to aggressively. We shoot a far more static style of IPSC up here, unfortunately, the movements I was making technically would be close to what I'd have to do anyways since a field course up here would look the same but just have 4 targets stacked at each of those ports, no kidding I've actually shot many match stages up here just like that, so you pretty much have to make hard movements from port to port. I was trying to force myself to do them however without the customary reload so I could just move and track the gun. On some runs I pulled the gun back too far but it feels better to me, as BE says to track the gun to target, on runs where I kept the gun out more (I'll see if I have those saved for download) I would have a tendency to track the gun onto the target from the side and get an early shot off which would have to be made up, the pressing out to target helped eliminate that, especially with the SS gun. As far as the stand and shoot videos I am not sure you are fully testing your skill set. Look at the difference in your stance while shooting the stand and shoot verses the movement shooting. There is a huge difference in how low you are when shooting the movement drill verses the standing one. Maybe it would be more effective to start the three target drill outside of the target shooting position then enter it aggressively and engage the targets. Doing that will test more of your overall movement and shooting skills while at the same time keeping it very realistic to what you would be required to do most of the time during a stage run. Re: Stand and shoot While I see more stages like you descibe in the US, we have lots of stand and shoot stages up here. So this actually helps, I will have to start adding an initial movement as you say to get better prepared for US matches. I'd also like to start running this on the move but I'll start closer initially. Other than that my only other suggestion is to shoot at practice targets that mimic exactly what you will see in a match. I don't know what is done at the local matches where you shoot, but for me we never have a single hard cover line and then brown cardboard showing below that. Calling your shots and processing your sight picture is 100% visual and you train your brain to quickly process known images/conditions then make the appropriate decision subconsciously. Practicing with targets that are not what you will see in a match is counter productive. At least I know it is for me. Kind of like people dry firing by using light switches or pictures on a wall for targets. We never shoot at these things in a match so the training of "Seeing what you need to see" is polluted by practicing with invalid targets. I have always been a stickler for this myself as I know it will significantly impact my training in a negative way. But for others it does not affect them at all so who knows. Just something to think about. Thats fine if you have all the stuff to do that, unfortunately I have to do it on a budget, free tape helped but I had no paint, I do what I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 That's good stuff. Although it feels natural and faster to be a little "crouchy" when moving around, it isn't. Watch a master Judo guy moving around - he keeps his feet pretty much under his shoulders at all times. To me, your stand and shoot position looks rock solid. be I've noticed TGO doing that too, thats another drill for me to think up. I notice in a port with big transitions, instead of planting and making the big swings he will move his feet to turn and engage the targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 How's my draw look? There's something about it that I can't put my finger on.... I did get some good draws in, got down into the mid .9 range at 15yds on a full target A zone...I might have one on video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 Yup, here's one, its at the end of this video and was a .94 if I remember correctly...you can see the muzzle came up too high to start and I had to let it come down for the first shot...I need to work on what Flex pointed out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHA-LEE Posted April 26, 2011 Share Posted April 26, 2011 Your stand and shoot draws look solid to me. I don't see any excessive body or head movement and you break the first shot as soon as the gun is fully mounted. If you can do sub 1 second draws regularly in match conditions I wouldn't worry about trying to find an extra tenth or two of speed. You can easily make up that time along with a lot more by optimizing movement and shooting speed while churning through the stage. Keep in mind though that my draw sucks so I don't have much to add on doing it better than you currently are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 There's just something that looks like extra movement to me but I can't put my finger on it...it may be from the diagonal movement of the gun. Like I said we have a much more static style of shooting up here so the draw does become a factor to some extent, we can't hide a poor draw with a quick movement to the first position. It can be unforgiving as a lot of your fundamentals must be right on, one of the reasons I love speed shoots. Kind of like shooting Steel Challenge, there is kind of a pure shooting requirement that can't be covered up or helped out if you are exceptional at movement or fleet of foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted April 26, 2011 Author Share Posted April 26, 2011 As for the draw and it going to the center of the target...same as the above...plus... Is you gun traveling in more of a line from the holster to extension (along a 45d angle of so)...or, is it coming up, then pressing out along your cone of vision. (the latter, I think, might allow your vision to make corrections when driving the gun to a "spot") Dryfired the crap out of this tonight, lifting the gun more then driving it out. Noticed two things, getting both hands involved in the grip sooner (the support hand gets on the gun and into its grip earlier) and the gun as it drives out to target locks on more positively. Basically I'm bringing it up to the high ready then pressing out, similar to what it looks like as I move across the targets in the movement drill video above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 29, 2011 Share Posted April 29, 2011 I need to read all the comments yet... I'd probably eliminate a some of those stops and starts in the movement drills (unless that was the point of your drill, instead of HHF) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted June 10, 2011 Author Share Posted June 10, 2011 Had a great match last weekend, things are finally starting to click. I had three D's for the match but most of the stages I dropped only a couple of points including stages shot entirely on the move and in awkward positions. There was a stand and shoot three target stage at 7m and I wa the only shooter to go below 2.0 seconds with a 1.84 run and 1 point down. I made one mental mistake reengaging a target from a different port but it didn't cost me too much on the stage, in fact I shot steady enough that I won 4 stages of the 6 and the other two stages I dropped only 10 match points total. I manages to shoot the whole match in a calm confident mindset and it paid off. I never felt rushed or out of sorts even when the match ran long and everyone was getting frustrated. It's nice to be able to walk up to any stage and think "I can do this" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 Well I had a really good practice yesterday that got ruined when I got home and discovered my cracked slide Overall it was a really good session. I started by zeroing the gun and shooting groups for the first 50 rounds. Next I ran some Bill Drills. For this I set a goal of playing a breakout game with 2.0sec for the drill and .18 splits as the times I did not want to go below. My first couple of runs went well, perhaps too well, I met the breakout times by posting runs just over 2.0 seconds but mostly because I ran a slow draw... I shattered the other breakout times running most splits in the .15 to .18 range. While I was a little disappointed with myself for not meeting these times it still paid off for my shooting. I shot much more relaxed runs and out of 6 or 7 (roughly 36 to 42 rounds) runs I did I only dropped 1C, the rest were all easy A's. I was also much more aware of the sight tracking and trigger press. Normally on this kind of drill I have no recollection of pulling the trigger, this time I was very aware of where the dot was at all times and the feel of each shot breaking. Very Cool! When I pushed the draw a bit (first three were in the 1.2 range, I think because I wanted to shoot at a slower tempo I slowed the whole drill including the draw down) I got draws running in the .93 area and the whole drill dropped into the 1.70's Next I ran a drill similar to the one I posted the video of except that I ran one partial target in the middle and two full on either side. I ran this at 7m, 10m, and 15m. The first thing I noticed at 7 and 10m was that I was getting 2A's on the first target and the partial but just hanging C's and the odd D on the last one. For somed reason I was tracking really well on the first two targets but just snapping to and not really seeing the last and just poking at it. Once I saw this I made the effort to see the A zone on the last target and drive the sight there and I started getting runs of almost all A's at every distance. Next I ran the same drill but shot runs at 10m and 15m strong hand and weak hand. I pulled a few shots here but overall I felt really solid. I shot some groups at 15m strong hand and weak hand and then finished up with a few groups to verify the sights stayed put and lastly did some one shot speed draws at 7m, my fastest was a .75, thought the other day on the same drill (done this a few times to burn the last couple of stray rounds) I got down to a .67. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Next I ran a drill similar to the one I posted the video of except that I ran one partial target in the middle and two full on either side. I ran this at 7m, 10m, and 15m. The first thing I noticed at 7 and 10m was that I was getting 2A's on the first target and the partial but just hanging C's and the odd D on the last one. For somed reason I was tracking really well on the first two targets but just snapping to and not really seeing the last and just poking at it. (not sure if that applies here at all, just one of those things...) NPA set on the 1st target? If so, that means you are twisting further and further from you center as you transition. My (semi-bad) back doesn't like that sometimes. Even on a plate rack, I will try to have my NPA pointed to one of the middle plates, then adjust my index to draw. You still end up with the same degree of movement (arc), but you halve the distance off center by splitting it up. Less muscling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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