When Did 40s&w Become Heavy Metal?

[TRUBL]

IT's too bad more did not shoot HM at fort Benning, for once I actually found the long distance targets easy to shoot at. I even nailed the 2 longest ones at one shot each (yes.....I think I was lucky). Can't wait till next year at Fort Benning, no matter what class I shoot.....it was a hoot!!!

I guess even though I say I have old eyes, and would like to see optics in HM......this kinda made me rethink that. I think the main reason I even attemped the shots (and not gamed it like I would have normally done) is because we actually shot long shots like they are supposed to be shot.......prone, not some contorted position., and darn!!....I didnt do toooooo bad!!!

I too was the ultimate gamer with ammo for HM and did the whimpy stuff......only becasue the rules allowed it. However, a little talk with (I believe) Pat Kelly, he shamed me into using real ammo.......well except that I still use 2 3/4 dram loads for the shotgun....sorry Pat, I like my shoulder just where it is.

I say keep HM....Heavy Metal or He-Man.......not Girly Boy.......I agree with KellyN. If everyone comes to play with a 45ACP, maybe match organizers will know the shooters want to keep the integrity of HM at just what it is susposed to be. Same with Pump shotguns.....think of it this way, you will never have to worry about your gun cycling unless you yourself short stroke it or REALLY break something. I could go either way with optics on a HM rifle, there is only one, maybe 2 stages that you are really gonna need an optic in a match, the rest you'll be probably using a secondary iron sighting system.

Good matches can go bad if managed improperly.......there is one match that (IMHO) I do not think of as a 'must go to' match anymore. The good news is, there is about 4 (maybe 5?) others that are.

And KellyN......its the bad karma with the 110 ammo thats makin your rifle not function......time to buy some battle packs and shoot what God intended to be shot in that rifle.

[gl]

Placing the .40 in Heavy Metal is much the same as placing Def Leppard in Heavy Metal.

Hey!! Hey!!! Def leopard IS heavy metal!!!!

Gay heavy metal, but still heavy metal........................

No offense to my gay friends out there..............I am a lesbian at heart.

Edited December 8, 2006 by gl

[thedestroyerofworlds]

Matt....are you ok?

[Boulderado]

Hello All:

Here are my thoughts, worth about 2 cents, on why we are seeing a change in the Heavy Metal/He-Man pistol rules ... Rather simple actually, especially if you take a few moments to read the USPSA's provisional Single Stack Division rules and compare them with the new pistol requirements for H-M at the 2007 SMM3G for example. The set of rules are almost identical with the exception of allowing 9mm or anything smaller that .40 to be used.

I'd certainly like to use my wide body Para or STI/SVI .45 rather than my single stack simply because it is easier to do mag changes. But if everyone has to use a single stack then the field might be a bit more level? From my humble experience the competitive difference between a single stack .40 and a single stack .45, both limited to 8 round mags and the having the same power factor in H-M is probably not going to decide who will win the Class/Division/Category. What will decide is how well you shoot that 8 round SS .40 or .45 and how fast you load and shoot your 12 ga and how quickly you can put those Iron sighted .308 projectiles on the targets.

All that said, if I'm lucky enough to get into SMM3G 2007 I'll be shooting my .45 SS in H-M with a 10mm as a backup 'cause I got one... and they'll let me shoot H-M as a Super senior :-)

Best regards to all,

Darrell Humphrey

Edited December 8, 2006 by Boulderado

[PacMan]

Lets have 50 divisions, then everyone can be a winner!!!!!!!!!

___________________________________________________________________________

Life is really simple, but we insist on making it complicated. ~Confucius

You just hit the nail on the head! I have no beef in this HM cuz I can't see $h_t with iron sight, but having been through 3 RM3G matches as RO, I can attest to the "swagger" factor when one said "I am in He Man class" Now it seems to me the rules are being changed just to fit the few rather than He Man Division (or Heavy Metal) as it was intended to be. What's with no plastic framed pistols anyway??? Nostalgic reason? But wait, 0.40 S&W is now allowed, WTH???

[Overkill]

With the objective of creating a class sufficiently broad to be viable and sufficiently big to satisfy kelly...how about this set of rules.

Rifle: 308+, Powerfactor just shy of M80 Ball so a Scout or Socomm can shoot surplus and be good to go. No optics unless you're also shooting in Senior category...then you can shoot an optic with <3x power. 20 round mags.

Shotgun: Pump, 12ga, 8 round tube. As was said above...if you dont own one a competetive example can be had for a couple hundred bucks...its the cheepest match gun you'll ever own and the recoil absorbing ability of a gas gun definately is not HM. Optic free of course.

Pistol: I'm working from the idea here that boulderado advanced that the pistol is not going to be where the class is won and lost so its better to be inclusive. Really, the two guys that are in the running for 1st place in HM are going to be well practiced with watever pistol they bring....the difference in stage time they'll turn if one has a 8 round mags and the other has 10 round mags or if one has a down loaded double stack mag and the othe rhas SS are going to be exceedingly small...certianly there'll be less match points there than having to load and fire 1 extra SG round or take a couple extra shots to get on a 250 yard flasher. Bore diameter: 10mm/.40 or larger. PF: 205 (you can get that with a HEAVY 40 smith load if you're willing to load long with heavy bullets and really push your brass, but I'm betting most people wont...its a cinch with 10mm or 45acp, and larger). 10 or less rounds loaded in the mags. Also, HM should work from real, protective, secure holsters and I think the easiest way to make a rules that does that is to say the pistols gets worn the whole day.

[CaseyJ]

So would 41 mag be allowed if I showed up with that??

10mm is the auto equivelent of 41 mag, and you can put a 220gr bullet in a 10mm. Most of the guys I have seen shooting Hm have been shooting 200's or even a couple 180-185's you just need to put a higher PF restriction on it because as Pat said it is about dealing with the touque of a full power load!

People need to just stop being mad about 10mm being a superior round!

[kellyn]

And KellyN......its the bad karma with the 110 ammo thats makin your rifle not function......time to buy some battle packs and shoot what God intended to be shot in that rifle.

You are correct sir. The 7.62 gods frown on those who play the rules. They punish those who stray.

[scottmilk9]

Without going into so much detail like alot of you did, I don't like the HM rules either.

My idea of HM: .30 cal battle rifle/.45 auto(glock/1911/etc..)/pump 12 ga shotgun.

Also, Def Leppard is not Heavy metal, its more 80's rock than anything.

[TSOL1]

I Agree with Scott. I have shot he-man for the last 4 years. I also dont agree with the the low cap mag b.s, let the guys with the thirty round fal mags and the jousting tubes on their shotguns play and let the malfunctions begin.

ps: lets make it a 190 pf on pistol.

Jason

[SinistralRifleman]

I say we do away with divisions altogether and give an award for most "MAN-TASTIC" to whoever uses the most insane combination of heavy hitting guns.

[Matt Cheely]

I say we do away with divisions altogether and give an award for most "MAN-TASTIC" to whoever uses the most insane combination of heavy hitting guns.

I can see it now. 10ga. semi auto shotgun, .500 S&W revo, and a Barrett .50

[Flexmoney]

Matt...call it the Sako division?

[Matt Cheely]

Matt...call it the Sako division?

BINGO!