leam Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Besides cost of .45 components and trajectory, what issues would there be with a .45 ACP 230gr round nose in SSP/ESP? That means a PF of 125 and a FPS of about 544. It seems like the felt recoil would be light if you changed the springs. For the record, this is *not* my plan. At the moment it's an academic discussion between a fellow IDPA'r and I. ciao! leam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 I prefer a 200 at 625+ myself. It does work, in kind of a gamer fashion. Mild recoil and a big hole in the target. Worth two or three points on near/at the line hits in the usual match; Joe D. says it got him six points one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Let's see now, 2011 STI in 45ACP, 200 gr SWC at 650 fps. Start the stage with 11 in the gun. How about a single stack .45 ACP 1911 starting the stage with 10 in the gun. Hmmmm. Only a low life gamer would use a set up like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireant Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 (edited) Let's see now, 2011 STI in 45ACP, 200 gr SWC at 650 fps. Start the stage with 11 in the gun. How about a single stack .45 ACP 1911 starting the stage with 10 in the gun. Hmmmm.Only a low life gamer would use a set up like that. With taped glasses also Back to the question. Try it first, you might not like the feel of it. I tried puffdaddy loads in my Trojan SS in .40 and even with a spring change, I found I shot factory 165's faster and more accurate than the reloads. Edited November 16, 2006 by Fireant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 I may play around with it again after the Alabama Match in April. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 You cannot shoot extended mags in IDPA...all have to fit flush... Hi cap .45 or nothing, I guess..and you need some snap to the gun, or you can run faster than the cycle time if you are not careful...been there, done that...and any REAL .45 shooter can handle the recoil from a 165pf load Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Besides cost of .45 components and trajectory, what issues would there be with a .45 ACP 230gr round nose in SSP/ESP? That means a PF of 125 and a FPS of about 544. It seems like the felt recoil would be light if you changed the springs.For the record, this is *not* my plan. At the moment it's an academic discussion between a fellow IDPA'r and I. ciao! leam I will let you know on Monday how "I" like it for ESP...but I will be shooting a little higher PF than 125. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leam Posted November 16, 2006 Author Share Posted November 16, 2006 With taped glasses also Back to the question. Try it first, you might not like the feel of it. I tried puffdaddy loads in my Trojan SS in .40 and even with a spring change, I found I shot factory 165's faster and more accurate than the reloads. Tape... I agree that it's a gamey sort of set up but I did point it out to a fellow IDPA'r who thought any 45 automatically became CDP. The lower PF means you could just about throw the round and make the PF! My setup is currently CDP and a 230gr RN with ~4.1 grains of Bullseye. The 200 grain SWC's I have don't seem to be feeding right yet and I haven't checked them out since the gunsmith worked on it. ciao! leam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 I guess I just have slow nerves because I can't feel the sluggish operation people talk about. 9mms, powder puff .45s, whatever, the gun is ready by the time I am. If you get tired of dancing with gunsmiths, there ARE 200 gr roundnose bullets. Precision and Masterblasters coated, Laser Cast conventional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTDR Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 i tried it once, waaaay to slow, your slide will not be able to keep up, and will throw your timing way off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJONES5 Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 I prefer a 200 at 625+ myself.It does work, in kind of a gamer fashion. Mild recoil and a big hole in the target. Worth two or three points on near/at the line hits in the usual match; Joe D. says it got him six points one day. I tried that one time,but we had to stop the MATCH. Guys were running around with coffee cans trying to catch the bullets as they went down range,timing my slide with a Sundial,even a ex Cowboy shooter had his rope out trying to lasso them pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 I can't seem to find where it says in the rule book I can't use extended mags. BTW there is no such thing as "waiting on the slide". I had a Glock do a 4 round burst once shooting some 128 pf loads. Just happened to be checking my draw times when it happened. The splits were in the .06-.07 second range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Wonder Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 (edited) Downloading 45ACP to a lower power factor that meets the 125 requirement is perfectly legal putting shooting a 45ACP on par with others in the division shooting 9mm. The only downside to shooting a 45ACP single stack in ESP would be a reduced round capacity. Edited November 16, 2006 by Singlestack Wonder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted November 16, 2006 Share Posted November 16, 2006 Joe D The rules say you have to use the mags that came with the gun and in the case of .45 that means choosing between 7 or 8 round mags...no 10 round mags...now hi cap is a different story...can't load but 10 and one up the spout... No you cannot outrun the slide, but it is very hard to time the gun with the slide moving that slowly..easier to shoot 165 and go about your business..after 200 or 300 rounds, you forget about it...and with the faster loads you don't have to hold HIGH for the 7 yd targets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 A while back I started a thread on this here BE forum about how fast them thar' CAS bullets go, and one responder said that there wasn't a minimum PF, but there was a minimum velocity, which I think was 600 fps. Any slower than that you risk having a whole slug bounce back at you. OUCH!!!! So I guess over 600 fps, a lead cast bullet disintegrates into smaller particles. At 544 fps, you should be able to run right out there and give your bullets any midcourse corrections before they impact the targets. Or, heck, give you enough time to dodge behind cover when they hit a popper and bounce back. LOL! Yes, that's do-able and well within the current rules. That might help explain the split between SSR (125 PF) and ESR ( 165 pf, from the "gamier" S & W 625's in .45 ACP). IIRC, the 625's could shoot their 125 + PF bunny fart loads back when all the wheelguns were lumped into one division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTDR Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 I can't seem to find where it says in the rule book I can't use extended mags. BTW there is no such thing as "waiting on the slide". I had a Glock do a 4 round burst once shooting some 128 pf loads. Just happened to be checking my draw times when it happened. The splits were in the .06-.07 second range. page 18 it must fit in the box, while it is splitting hairs on it saying you cannot use extended magazines, you very well can use them, as long as the fit in the box, and they will not as far as "waiting on the slide" , maybe one day you will get there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Gee tightloop, I just can't find anything in the rules about having to use the magazine that came with the gun. I haven't in years. Can you give a page cite? My Joe D. design 9-shot .45s aren't weighted and they fit The Box. What more is required? Chills, the SASS minimum velocity was 650 fps, but it was not enforced and did not stay in but one edition of the handbook. CAS loads are often light, light, light. Targets are close, stationary, and scored by ear so it doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 (edited) FTDR, I have a couple of bucks that says you can't do .06 splits. Shall I get the timer out and take your money? Never had any bullets bounce off steel, but a few have failed to go through two layers of cardboard. I use a tangent sight for those long 15 yd shots. Tightloop, if you knew how much of a gamer I am you would realize I know by heart every single word in the IDPA rulebook. The slide on a .45 1911 moves plenty fast with 200 gr bullets at 650 fps. The only real downside is having to use a 10# spring. The light spring will magnify any feeding issues. Edited November 17, 2006 by Joe D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTDR Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 FTDR, I have a couple of bucks that says you can't do .06 splits. Shall I get the timer out and take your money? Never had any bullets bounce off steel, but a few have failed to go through two layers of cardboard. I use a tangent sight for those long 15 yd shots. Tightloop, if you knew how much of a gamer I am you would realize I know by heart every single word in the IDPA rulebook. never said i could, and nether can you, and from what you described it was a malfunction, however i can do them in .11 with full pf loads, but with downloaded 45's i have had to wait because the slide is slow, it may very well be in battery, but not fast enough to acquire the next shot in the same amount of time as full pf loads in a .45, comparing a malfunctioning glock with it is apples and oranges, i did not know the origin of this question was about a glock, i give my experience with under powered 45's, now if you want to ask about glocks start another thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 (edited) Jim It has to fit in the box with the mag included...and a 10 round 45 won't do that ..sorry, I should have been more specific.. Edited November 17, 2006 by tightloop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middle Man Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 FTDR, I have a couple of bucks that says you can't do .06 splits. Shall I get the timer out and take your money? Never had any bullets bounce off steel, but a few have failed to go through two layers of cardboard. I use a tangent sight for those long 15 yd shots. Tightloop, if you knew how much of a gamer I am you would realize I know by heart every single word in the IDPA rulebook. The slide on a .45 1911 moves plenty fast with 200 gr bullets at 650 fps. The only real downside is having to use a 10# spring. The light spring will magnify any feeding issues. Joe's bullets move so slow, he uses a sundial rather than waste money on a chronograph! TL, I've shot with Joe, his picture is alongside the definition of gamer in the forthcoming rulebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Downloaded .45 Acp In Ssp/esp?, Why not? Too much gay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 FTDR, that's the same split time I can get with a Kimber 1911 shooting a 200 gr at 650 fps. Either you are old and slow or I am fast enough. Was not comparing a Glock to a 1911, just pointing out that one cannot pull the trigger faster than the slide will cycle whether shooting a Glock or 1911. The issue is some will not like the feel of the recoil cycle from one load to another. Shall we leave it at that or argue more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 TL, the mags I use hold 9 rounds of .45 or 10 rds of .40. Guess now that I think about it I am more of an experimenter than a gamer. OTOH some would say anyone, not using full power loads in CDP, ESP and SSP, is a gamer. A full power CDP load has a 190-200 PF. My Glock 23 carry load has a 180 PF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 You can't win, Joe. First the Tactical Gurus will tell you to compete with what you carry. Then if you hint that there is any training aspect to IDPA (or IPSC) they will be quick to tell you "it's just a game." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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