question for Brian

[Kevin Kline]

Brian,

After 20 + years of GM shooting and development, do you shoot with one eye open and one eye closed, both eyes open and weak covered with tape, or both eyes open, both unobstructed? What do you currently use and what do you think?

I read the post on Travis' eye exercise and your posts with it. I tried what you suggested in your book with covering the weak eye with tape. I kind of liked it. I have never shot that many A's in my life. I didn't slow down with my shots either. I was very accurate shooting this way.

But, I didn't feel as comfortable with other things like mag changes and movement. I seemed a little off balanced and it just didn't feel right because I couldn't see everything with both eyes with normal vision.

I currently shoot with one eye open and the weak eye closed. I have done pretty good with this so far (Limited Master with 2 100% classifiers), but always wondered if I should try something else or if I'm missing something. At least when shooting this way, when I want to see with both eyes while doing mag changes or moving, all I have to do is open the weak eye, I can't do this with the tape on the glasses.

Brian, what do you currently do and what would you suggest.

[benos]

Kevin,

I use the tape, but the trick is in exactly where you place  the tape on your glasses.  When you are in your typical freestyle position, place the tape so the bottom of the tape cuts off your vision (while closing your shooting eye) right at your wrists. This should prevent double vision in most positions, yet allow you to see "under" the tape to open doors, reload, or just generally move around a stage. Also, when I first started using the tape, I wore my glasses when doing household things, while reloading, etc... It does take awhile for you to get used to it; I remember the feelings you described.

I've never been able to aim a pistol without blocking the vision of one eye. I've tried everything, my body just won't allow it. (I always get double vision.) In the old days, I always just closed an eye while shooting. Then I learned about the benefits of the tape, so I trained myself to use it. I don't think, however, that the tape is necessary if you are one of the people that have to shoot with only one eye. One of the tape's benefits is, by allowing both eyes to remain open, the aiming eye doesn't fatigue as quickly. This is especially useful when shooting sports like PPC, which require extended periods of focus, but in IPSC, we just don't look at the sights for that long. Sometimes, and it varies from day to day, I feel if I see the sites better if I close my eye that is behind the tape. But I leave the tape on, just for insurance.

be

[Al Capizzo]

Am I glad to see Brian's reply.  I've been shooting forever with one eye closed.  Just could not make it work with both eyes open.  I never felt like it was hampering my shooting, but I always had this nagging thought about "what am I doing wrong," "EVERYBODY shoots with both eyes open." Well, guess not!

[Ron Ankeny]

I used to shoot with the weak eye closed, then I just forced myself to shoot with both eyes open. I just put up with the double vision and on close fast targets it doesn't matter. Still, with both eyes open I string shots vertically and every once in a while I'll shoot over the "head" or nail a no shoot so I am going to try the tape thing for the next six months or so. I shot my last four classifiers with tape on one lens and my hit factors have gone up because of more points and only a slight increase in time.

If the tape thing doesn't get me where I want to be, then I'll just say screw it and go to an open pistol.

[Kevin Kline]

What type or color of glasses or lenses does everyone use. What color do you guys use for Limited and what do you think is best? Amber, yellow, mirror, blue, clear, smoke.

What color is best for Open, amber, yellow, mirror, blue, clear, smoke?

Brian what do you use and what do you recommend? I have only used either clear or blue (for sunglasses) before.

[Phil Dunlop]

Kevin, I've got three lenses, for my glasses, clear, brown (oakley VR28) and yellow, which I hate and use only in the most miserable circumstances. I only shoot limited, and use a black front sight.

My favorite depends on the available light.

[Kevin Kline]

Phil,

What type of lenses do you use for what type of lighting conditions and why do you not like the yellow lenses?

B or anyone else's thoughts.

[Phil Dunlop]

Kevin, for whatever I can get away with I use clear, bright sunlight, dark and yellow for really poor light.

I find with the yellow ones that fatigue creeps up real quick, especially if the light improves significantly while I'm wearing them

[benos]

I use the lightest tint I can get away with without having to squint. Unfortunately, I don't know the actual "favor" or tint of my Oalkley's I use most often. I got a few experimental lenses some years ago and I'll still using them. Voigt said onetime that he thought it was a clear lens with a red iridium coating. I have no clue. What I like about them is that they don't excessively darken what I see (they are a very light tint), even in the bright AZ sun.  Otherwise, I use clears or whatever they call their normal dark lens.

be

[Mario]

Along the lines of glass tint etc I wonder if anyone has a suggestion/opinion that may help me.  I am nearsighted and have a stigmatism, worse in the left eye than the right, and finding a good decent set of glasses to shoot with is becoming a problem.  At the moment I wear contact lenses but they tend to get dirty and dry during the days shooting and are becoming a real pain.  I have tried to get some info on sunglass manufactures that have interchangeable lenses, that will accommodate my script, but not much luck at all.  The other problem I guess is that being in Australia what is available compared to the US differs somewhat.  If anyone can suggest something it would be great and thanks in advance.

Mario

[Bill]

Mario,

I use polycarbonate prescription glasses that have a medium tint. The right lens is focused on the front sight and the left lens has my normal prescription for distance. I only wear these when shooting. Be sure to get polycarbonate for protection. Regular glasses don't give enough impact protection. I learned the hard way.  You eye doctor should be able to fit you. I have clip on side shields on mine.

I recently learned to shoot with both eyes open. It is amazing how much more quickly I can see things.

Bill Nesbitt

[benos]

Mario,

Do you have sport shooting glasses from/by Bud Decot  in Australia? I know he makes interchangeable prescriptions in just about any tint imaginable.

be

[BigDave]

In regards to closing ones eye when aiming.

When I was heavy into target archery, I read an article from a former Soviet olympic coach who talked about shooting with one eye closed.  When you do so, it actually causes the muscles of the open eye to strain and begins to affect your ability to focus sharply.  I thought for awhile that I was having eye problems, till I switched to shooting with both eyes open.  Cleared things right up.  FWIW

[benos]

BigDave,

That's (basically) why I began using the transparent tape to block the non-dominant eye 10 + years ago. In addition, when you close one eye the pupil of the other (open) eye attempts to compensate (for the light) by getting larger, so it becomes the wrong size to properly focus in the given light conditions. However, this is most noticeable when shooting/focusing for extended periods of time.

be

[George D]

Mario,

Decot International glasses are available in Australia and are actually made in Austalia. (Try Horsley Park Gunshop In Sydney).

I shoot mainly Service Pistol Match, which is like PPC and have Old eyes. The 50 yard prone stage presents a challenge because the front and rear sights are so much closer than when standing. Also, the targets are dark grey so the light gap is indistinct.

Bill's suggestion of different prescriptions for each eye sounds interesting but I wonder whether this would put strain on the eyes in trying to accomodate the different focus.

[jkmccoy]

I am strongly right-handed, but my eye dominance is much weaker. For many years I have shot with my left eye closed or with a patch over my left eye. When I started shooting USPSA I discovered that it works very well (for me) to put a small piece of tape over the left lens of my glasses to blur focus on the sights with my left eye. I HATE being able to see two sets of sights and trying to decide which one I am supposed to see.  A small piece of tape blocks the sights and still allows me peripheral vision to move, open doors, etc. Works great for me.

I am severely near-sighted and have astigmatism (but no presbyopia yet).

Cheers,

[mcoliver]

---

Quote: from BILL on 5:32 am on Sep. 18, 2001

Mario,

I use polycarbonate prescription glasses that have a medium tint. The right lens is focused on the front sight and the left lens has my normal prescription for distance. ...

Bill Nesbitt

---

I've read this somewhere in this forum before so I did a little experiment.  Since I was near sighted, without my glasses I can fully focus on the front-sight.  What I did was I took out the right lens on my prescription glasses and left the left lens on.  This actually allowed me to have focus on the FS and the target as well...COOL!  Until 20 minutes later of dry fire when I felt really sick and felt like thowing up.  It needs some getting used to.  20 minutes on the first try may have been too much. YMMV, though.

[George D]

Brian,

The purpose of the tape on your glasses seems to be to prevent your non-aiming eye from seeing the sights but not from seeing the target. Is the target in focus for your non-shooting eye? If so, this would seem to replicate Bill's glasses with differing prescriptions. You say "I feel if I see the sites better if I close my eye that is behind the tape. But I leave the tape on, just for insurance". Is this feeling because the non-shooting eye is trying to focus on the target while the shooting eye is trying to focus on the front sight??

I have been using a set of Decot glasses with a flip-up attachment. These have a set of colour lens, which allow normal vision when walking around the range and for the "Unsighted" section of Service Pistol Match. The flip-up has a prescription lens for the shooting eye and a translucent white full lens for the other eye which flip into place when I need to see the sights.

For those of us that need prescription glasses that sharpen the image of the front sight but severely blur the image of the target (particularly at 50 yards with dark grey targets), do you see any advantage in allowing the non shooting eye a vision of the blurred target (ie the tape solution) or is a full occluder on that eye a better solution?

[Mistral404]

I am left eye dominate, right handed, wear contacts with mono vision.  Mono vision is where one eye has a long distance focus (left) and the other eye is used for reading (right).  I am about as screwed up as a football bat!.

I have tried taping the left eye, closing the left eye, etc.  I noticed that when I used a brand new contact in the left eye, I could almost focus on the Dawson fiber optic front sight I had on my single stack.   So I tried that, worked ok, except when I shot indoors.

I went for my yearly checkup.  I told my eye doc I wanted to have an additional set of contacts where my left eye would be focused four inches beyond the end of my finger.  

I tried it out on a practice session on Friday and shot a match on Saturday.  The results were not bad!  Friday helped me unlearn the older habits of squinting or using tape.  The left eye POA was very natural.  I shoot with both eyes open.  The match had a lot of shoot and run stages.  I felt pretty good about the experiment.  I will try it again.

I will probably end up with two sets of left eye contact prescriptions, one for shooting and one for everyday use.  I will try this out for a couple of months and give y'all feedback later.

tks

[Alan550]

The monovison contact solution should work for those who can successfully wear contacts, but as mentioned, one pair for shooting and another for regular wear.

  That also works with glasses, but can be disconcerting if worn for extended periods of time, as also mentioned earlier.  

  There's a company called Smith Optics here in the USA that makes a polycarbonate shield set-up similar to the Oakleys that uses an Rx insert to go in behind the shields.  They come with mirrored sun, amber and clear shields, and separate nosepad inserts for use "with or without the Rx insert".  Get the lenses ground with the optical centers high in the lenses and inset to the nasal side a bit to eliminate the parallax problem and they work great.  Any retail optical shop should be able to get these for you.

  Alan~^~

[Duane Thomas]

"What I did was I took out the right lens on my prescription glasses and left the left lens on."

You're not saying you shot your gun with one of the lenses on your safety glasses removed, I hope. Speaking as someone who's experienced two KBs over the years - and examined the pockmarks across the lenses of my shooting glasses after each event - I can only say you NEED that protection. Deliberately removing one of the lenses from your safety glasses and then firing a gun is incredibly dangerous. You may get away with it, it's really unlikely anything bad would happen. But if "anything bad" does happen, the fact it was "really unlikely" is going to be cold comfort as you're practicing your Braille.

[George D]

Hey Duane,

He did say that he was DRY FIRING when he conducted his experiment.

I tried taking the frosted lens out of my shooting glasses and just walking around at home for 15 minutes with just the Rx lens. It made me feel giddy and also like throwing up. I think I'll stick to the full occluder as I find it really difficult to keep the sights aligned while throwing up.

(Edited by George D at 12:17 pm on Oct. 8, 2002)

[mcoliver]

George D's right.  I was using the mono-lense only while dry firing.  I usually  start out any gunslinging experiment with dry fire that way I'll know if it's worth taking to the range.  Talking about back-splatter, me and my cam have also taken  our shares of it.  That's why I always wear protection everytime I'm near the bays.  Thanks.

[Duane Thomas]

Oops, sorry. I should read more closely.

[ScottC]

Regarding tint for glasses, I wear prescription glasses and had a set made with Transitions coating on the lenses.  The tint gets darker as the light gets brighter.  In low light they are virtually clear and in bright sunlight a medium gray tint (brown is also available).  I've only had them a couple of months, but so far I've been pretty pleased with the way they work.