Newbie Question Regarding Getting Started In Uspsa With A Glock

[big_kahuna]

Newbie question regarding getting started in USPSA with a Glock

Long time lurker, but have only posted a couple of comments on these boards. I have been reading and searching these boards for weeks, utterly fascinated. Finally, I think I know enough to ask something...

My background:

I am just getting started in USPSA, and have decided to get started with a Glock 35 for Limited/L-10. Although I am a newb to USPSA/IPSC, I have been shooting and handloading since 1982. I am a former Marine (Rifle Expert, Pistol Expert, Shooting Coach, yada yada yada) and a graduate of the Front Sight 4-day tactical handgun course. I have owned and enjoyed many different types of handguns (revolvers, 1911s, Glocks, Berettas, Smiths, etc.). Imagine my surprise when I went to my first USPSA match, and all the experienced shooters were using different gear and techniques than I was used to. I decided to open my mind and learn from any source available... absorb what is useful and file the rest... and try to enjoy the journey and experience as much as possible. I have Brian's and Steve Anderson's books... have spent hours on the Matt Burkett website using the dry practice drills. I really want to get better and get competitive.

My Question:

Given a budget of about 500 to 700 bucks, what additional gear (if any) would you recommend for me to get a decent start in USPSA Limited/L-10? I am cost-conscious (read that as CHEAP) and have a limited budget subject to approval by the tyrannical household CFO (my lovely wife). I already have the following:

 Glock 35

 KKM Precision drop in barrel

 grip tape on frame

 brass magwell

 4 standard capacity magazines

 6 10-round magazines

 Bladetech DOH holster

 mixed mag pouches (one Uncle Mike's kydex double pouch, one Fobus paddle double pouch, and two Pearce kydex single pouches)

 A pretty decent handloading bench (Dillon 550B, Forster Co-Ax, RCBS Rock Chucker, and all the goodies) setup for pistol/revolver/precision-rifle handloading

 Wilderness instructor belt

Impressions of current equipment (and perceived shortcomings):

Trigger will take some getting used to, definitely not like my Kimber. Grip angle is far different from my 1911s, and I am dry practicing lots to eliminate the high muzzle effect. All the practice is giving me "Glock Knuckle" because of the questionable ergonomics of the triggerguard (and I am considering taking a file to that darn thing). KKM barrel gives me peace of mind in regards to kabooming (perhaps this is an illusion). Mismatched mag pouches bother me due to irregular height and positioning as I draw mags.

Rationale/Considerations:

I have been contemplating getting, better sights (Heinies or Dawsons), better holsters and pouches (CR Speed / Ghost / Speedcomp), trigger kits (RS or Vanek), basepads (Arredondo or Taylor Freelance), etc ad nauseum. However, the more I study and the more I think about it, I think I should pass on all that stuff and get a Pact MK IV shot timer, 10K Masterblaster bullets and lots of trigger-time.

Thanks in advance... I look forward to any advice you might have. I also welcome any questions or feedback.

Kindest Regards,

Big_Kahuna

[Loves2Shoot]

1. Sights (Dawson fixed or Warren)

2. CR Rig (it will fit anything well)

3. Vanek (stock Glock triggers suck, but Dave does ok without one)

4. Lots of bullets (forever)

[George]

the more I think about it, I think I should pass on all that stuff and get a Pact MK IV shot timer, 10K Masterblaster bullets and lots of trigger-time.

That is a very good idea. But I would also attend to the trigger. It can be fixed and should be fixed. It's really the only thing on a stock Glock that will actually hold you back. Everything else in stock form can take you quite a ways if you want to learn how to drive it there.

You could live with the sights as they are and then the gun will also be legal in Production division with minor ammo loadings. Because you have 10 round and standard capacity mags, you can effectively compete in up to 3 USPSA divisions (L, L10 & Production).

With a decent trigger and lotsa' dryfire and range time there is no reason that gun cannot take you there without adding a lot of bling (bbl, magwell, sights, etc...).

Thats my opinion and I stickinin' with it.

Welcome to competition shooting. You are gonna' love it :-)

[vluc]

If you want to play occasionally in Production, don't file away on the trigger guard...other than that, what they said!

[Matt Griffin]

The Sotelo trigger at least, or Vanek if you want to spend the money. The sights as well are nearly a necessity. Or you can search on triggers and take Flexmoney's advice, regarding the .25 job and springs.

Since you said L/L10, You'll need at least two basepads. So far that's about 180$. You don't really need to worry about the rig, the DOH will be plenty of holster to Master and beyond. Go ahead and file the trigger guard, it's poorly designed and should be altered. If you want to play production, you can wait for a 34. You will probably want at least one fancy mag holder, for the backups you can get a cheapy bladetech injection molded double. If you're going to concentrate on L10, you might want to buy more fancy ones.

And, as you already know, spend the rest on ammo and practice. Don't sweat the timer for a while, but you'll need one eventually.

H.

[BlackSabbath]

+1 on the Vanek trigger. Charlie Vanek's stuff is the best money can buy. Go to www.vanekcustom.com.

Shop-479-876-6057

Cel-479-936-6148

[Chuck Anderson]

First things first. Get new sights. Glock factory sights are horrible and the adjustables that come on the 35 are even worse. My preference would be the Warren/Sevigny sights. Second would be the Heine sights.

Second would be a CR Speed belt and one mag pouch if you're gonna play limited, three for L-10.

Regardless of what division you're going to shoot you're gonna need mag pads for your mags if you keep the magwell. It's always frustrating to see shooters put a magwell on and then used standard length mags. They can never seem to figure out why they have problems seating the mag. If you're not gonna get pads, get rid of the magwell. BTW, my preference in pads would be the Dawson over the Arredondo or the Taylor. The Taylor and the Arredondo both requires tools to take apart. The Dawson does not. I've also had much better luck with the Dawson. I keep having malfunctions with the Arredondo and it's been relegated to a training mag.

The holster you have is perfect for anything. You won't be at any disadvantage with it.

As far as the trigger goes. There a lot of things that can be done a lot cheaper than a Vanek. Mainly because of the cost of shipping the gun to him.

For the bullets, I know lead is cheaper than jacketed but I hate lead bullets. They smoke way too much, including MasterBlasters. I shoot with a guy and his son that both use lead and I always joke that I'm going to arrest him for child abuse. It sounds like you've spent a fair amount of time on the range. Shooting lead bullets will increase the amount of lead in your system which is bad. If you stick to jacketed bullets you can sell that KKM bbl also and pay for the difference.

[dfwmiket]

My .02--

Sights: I like Heinie (add fiber front if you want one from Dawson too)

Stock Glock sights suck. That is the main weakpoint of the gun, otherwise, doesn't need much.

Grip tape: Eric Wesselman's TruGrip grip tape is the best, hands down.

I know a lot of people jazz up the trigger, but mine is stock and I don't really feel that it holds me back. Dryfire, dryfire, dryfire.

Good luck!

[TBF]

Kahuna,

I am also shooting a G35 with a KKM barrel . If you don't modify the trigger guard this same gun can be used in production without the magwell ( or extended mag release , etc. )

This is just my .02 , in order of importance to myself.

1. Trigger , the Sotelo kit is a huge improvement over stock , I hear the Vanek is better yet.

2. Sights , I have the Sevigny / Warren on my G35 , and a Heinie / Dawson combo on my G17 ( Fiber optic front sight ) Both are good choices IMHO .

3. CR Speed belt and versa pouches , much better presentation of mags with this setup . It's also adaptable to almost any gun rig with the proper holster . The pouches fit everything from singlestack to Glock to S_I to whatever with replacable ( included ) inserts.

4. Get a few Arredondo or Dawson extended base pads . I have both and one the Arredondo's holds 20 , Dawsons hold 19 .

5. The holster is good , as is .

AND get the shot timer and 10K bullets ...

Just .o2

Travis F.

[big_kahuna]

Folks,

Thanks for the great advice. I will take a few hours or days to digest and consider the suggestions. If I had an unlimited budget, I would get the full house treatment now. As it is, I will probably end up getting the full house in bite-size chunks over time.

Here are my initial reactions today:

1. lotsa Bullets: gotta get these... can't have too many. Researching cheap jacketed/plated ones to minimize smoke/lead. (thanks L2S, George, Houngan, Lawman, TBF)

2. practice: same as bullets, more is better. (thanks George, Houngan, cnemikeman)

3. Pact timer: still thinking about this one... currently using Matt B. website for par timer for dry practice. I have access to shot timers at the club for livefire... may hold off on getting the Pact for now. Can allocate that 200 bucks elsewhere. (thanks George, Houngan, TBF)

4. trigger: will initially try the Flex approach with polish & springs (plus hours of dry practice)... if it is still intolerable then considering Vanek. (thanks L2S, George, Houngan, Blacksabbath, Lawman, cnemikeman, TBF)

5. sights: strangely, stock sights seem work okay for me so far. I used a sharpie to blacken the white outline and they seem fine for now. That said, my "seeing" speed is still fairly slow. I may need to upgrade sights if it will help me "see" faster. EEK, I'm using BE lingo!!!! (thanks L2S, George, Houngan, Lawman, cnemikeman, TBF)

6. triggerguard: I don't notice it at all on gamedays, but it completely irritates me during dry practice. I practice about 20 times more than I compete. Really leaning toward grinding that triggerguard down. I realize that I cannot use this frame in production after I modify it. (thanks houngan, vluc)

7. Basepads: seems a MUST BUY to be competitive in limited, and to ensure positive seating with magwell. (thanks Houngan, Lawman, TBF)

More to follow, still processing all the data... thanks again folks, this forum is awesome! The people here are terrific!

Kindest Regards,

Big Kahuna

[Dan Mancini]

Big Kahuna,

I've been shooting a G35 since 2005. I'd like to throw my thoughts in there.

Holster. I've used one you mention and it moves around way too much to be good. Video someone using it and then watch how much it moves in slow motion. I would get a good holster, Ghost or CR Speed. Getting a good grip and draw is critical.

You're reloads are where you make up time in L/L10. By having good mag pouches you will make much faster and smoother reloads. I say CR Speed, because if you change platforms you can change your pouches to the new mags, so no additional cost.

Sights! Either Dawson or Heinie. I have both, Dawsons on my G35, Heinies on my G17. To me, after using both for several years it's a coin toss.

Timer. CED now has a new time that's the size of small cell phone and it's nice. They cost about $125, which is a little much for how much you're going to use it, but they are great to have when you go train (either at home or at the range).

Triggerguard. Cut that puppy up. I take a dremel and sand a larger slot into the guard so my finger fits in there better and gets rid of most of the knuckle.

Trigger. OK, here is where I think I'm going to differ from a lot here. Leave it alone! Your gun will never be a 1911. No matter how much money you throw at it, you will never get that sweet 1911 trigger break. And I have a Vanek in mine! Use your gun for a while, practice both live fire and dry fire and see if you get more accustomed to the trigger. I disagree with most on how bad the Glock trigger is, it's just not a 1911 trigger and never will be. Give it some time.

Base pads. You're gonna need 2, I would prefer 3. I have the Dawsons, but have no idea if they are any better or worse than anyone elses. To be honest, I have NEVER taken my mags apart at a match, nor have I ever had a mag failure at a match. And we shoot in some nasty dirt here in TX.

Bullets. Lots of bullets. Just keep practicing. I use Montana Gold bullets but I have stock barrels in mine, and I don't believe you need an aftermarket barrel. You just need bullets to practice.

I'm sure some will disagree but that's just my two cents.

Dan

[R. Batt]

I'm also pretty new to USPSA so take this for what its worth. I shoot a G35 in production which limits the modifications that I can make. My choices would be:

Sights (I have the Sevginy competition sights and love them. I have shot a lot with Glock night sights and if I could only make/afford one modification to my gun it would be the sights.)

Timer (Gives you a base from which you can improve.)

Bullets and practice are a given and you can never get enough.

[big_kahuna]

Big Kahuna,

I've been shooting a G35 since 2005. I'd like to throw my thoughts in there.

Holster. I've used one you mention and it moves around way too much to be good. Video someone using it and then watch how much it moves in slow motion. I would get a good holster, Ghost or CR Speed. Getting a good grip and draw is critical.

You're reloads are where you make up time in L/L10. By having good mag pouches you will make much faster and smoother reloads. I say CR Speed, because if you change platforms you can change your pouches to the new mags, so no additional cost.

Sights! Either Dawson or Heinie. I have both, Dawsons on my G35, Heinies on my G17. To me, after using both for several years it's a coin toss.

Timer. CED now has a new time that's the size of small cell phone and it's nice. They cost about $125, which is a little much for how much you're going to use it, but they are great to have when you go train (either at home or at the range).

Triggerguard. Cut that puppy up. I take a dremel and sand a larger slot into the guard so my finger fits in there better and gets rid of most of the knuckle.

Trigger. OK, here is where I think I'm going to differ from a lot here. Leave it alone! Your gun will never be a 1911. No matter how much money you throw at it, you will never get that sweet 1911 trigger break. And I have a Vanek in mine! Use your gun for a while, practice both live fire and dry fire and see if you get more accustomed to the trigger. I disagree with most on how bad the Glock trigger is, it's just not a 1911 trigger and never will be. Give it some time.

Base pads. You're gonna need 2, I would prefer 3. I have the Dawsons, but have no idea if they are any better or worse than anyone elses. To be honest, I have NEVER taken my mags apart at a match, nor have I ever had a mag failure at a match. And we shoot in some nasty dirt here in TX.

Bullets. Lots of bullets. Just keep practicing. I use Montana Gold bullets but I have stock barrels in mine, and I don't believe you need an aftermarket barrel. You just need bullets to practice.

I'm sure some will disagree but that's just my two cents.

Dan

Thanks for the input Dan! I will ask to try out my buddy's CR speed and try to get some video for analysis and comparison to my BT-DOH. Your other comments also make good sense to me.

I took yours and Houngan's advice: I did a triggerguard mod. I surprised myself with how good it turned out, both functionally and aesthetically . I wish I had done it sooner! If I can figure out how to post a pic, I will post a DIY-thread on how I did it.

Thanks again!

Kindest Regards,

big kahuna

[Chuck Anderson]

There are a couple threads on here about the DOH holster. If you're seeing the holster move, it's not on a proper belt. The DOH has more than enough speed for anything in IPSC. (Best times are about .70 on the draw for me) If you put the DOH on the CR Speed belt, with the propper size belt plate, that puppy will not move.

The problem with race holsters is getting the grip on the gun without knocking the dang thing out. I've used a bunch with my Glock and SV. Had issues with all of them but the DOH.

[Glk21C]

Dawson fiber optis sights

KKM barrel

Grams basepads (the best)

Vanek trigger

some kind of magwell that works for you

nuff said

good luck

[Flexmoney]

I've been looking for something to add to this thread. I really can't think of anything. Re-read Lawman's posts.

Just to beat the same path...

- Your holster ought to be just fine and dandy. If it doesn't fit the belt, then something is amiss...likely the belt. There are too many shooters using that holster for it to be a problem. If all else fails, stick a couple of screws in it to wedge it to the belt.

- CR Speed belt is the way to go. (though, your belt might be fine too?)

- Mag pouches. If you are shooting Limited/L-10, it would be nice to have some single speed pouches that are adjustable. I still use my Safariland pouches...I like them a bit better than the CR Speed pouches, but either would be great. If you want to stay cheap...just get another double pouch that matches one of your others (which ever you like best).

- Sights. Might as well get those now. You will get them later, if not. Makes sense to practice with what you will use.

- Basepads. I also prefer the Dawsons. I think they still have them on sale...in black?

- If you are handy, then do your own trigger work. Plenty of info out there. Just don't get into removing material or changing angles unless you really know what you are doing. You will save enough here to pay for that Pact.

[the duck of death]

Here's what I did for sights on my G23, G17 & G26:

Put on a plain black MMC rear made for the Glock and a Dawson Precision Fiber Optical front made for the Glock/Novak rear. The front sight is .160 high. I opened up the MMC rear a little with a Dremel.

Looks like a small combat rear sight and it's adjustable. The front sight is very low and will fit any holster.

As for the trigger, take some time and learn how to work on them. My trigger job costs $13.50 (Scherer 3.5 connector), the rest of the parts are OEM. I end up with a 2lb trigger W/minimal take up and all 3 safeties working.

Regarding trigger guard it's strange how mine has worn down and now is comfortable. My knuckles must be as rough as sandpaper.

For a holster I use a Blade Tech molded and some cheap kydex mag holders.

Don't be fooled by holsters, a $15 BT molded kydex is as fast as any. I own a bunch of them including a CR Speed.

[jay.shebuski]

Big K,

..welcome to the club! I'm just starting in USPSA also, not a Marine..rather Army & still in.

These USPSA/IPSC guys definately have this art form down (HA). I only wish SOMEONE had introduced it to me when I first came in..in the early 80s. I learned, perhaps like you, that we were 20 yrs behind these cats and I didn't even know it.

Just wanted to congratulate you on having an "open mind", as many of us get schooled @ our 1st match and then never come back.

I'm working on a production rating now myself and plan to enter Limted w/a Glock 20 soon, when I develope the load.

Wish you the best...good shooting,

Jay

[big_kahuna]

Thanks for all the help folks. Had a lot to think about over the last day or two. I really appreciate all the advice from those who have "been there, done that". Too bad my kids need straight healthy teeth or I'd buy everything I want

Thoughts on what we've discussed here (with ballpark figures for my budget limit):

I timed myself on the draw from the BT-DOH holster... Don't laugh now, remember that I have only been working on draw speed for about 6 weeks... I can repeatably dry-draw to first shot at a 10-yard target in 0.9 seconds, down to 0.8 about 40% of the time. With more practice I should get smoother and waste less motion. Livefire adds a couple tenths. The holster does move a little (not much) on my Wilderness belt, but I plan on upgrading to a CR speed belt soon ($65). I have a pal with a CR Speed; will ask to borrow and test how it works for me. I am going to stay with the DOH unless there is something absolutely magical (like cutting 3/10 off or more) about the race holster. If it is magical, it will probably need to wait until next year anyway due to fear of angry queenbee . ($0 for now).

Going ahead with the sights, looking hard at the Warren/Sevigny Competition sights and the CGR Heinie w/race cut. About 90% sure I'm going with the Sevigny sights, black on black (no fiber optic). I am really used to plain black sights from 20+ years of experience, going to stick with my comfort zone here. Plus, I am worried about the FO's effect on my precision on longer shots. Plus, they are less expensive ($60).

Getting 3 basepads (3x30=$90) and 3 pouches ($3x33=$99). Waiting on PACT for cash infusion next year($0 for now), plus can use free Matt B website for a little while longer.

Trigger: going to try to get used to stock first (practice is free), then try polish job (already have ceramic stones, dremel and polish). If no workie then will try a Vanek next year. Hey, I have more time than money.

Bullets: am going to go with the moly-encapsulated lead so I can buy more... I tested some Bear Creeks with TG, 231, and WSF. Accuracy was fine with all powders, smoke varied. From most to least smokey: TG, 231, WSF (hardly any smoke at all). I think that the burn rate/pressure/temp must affect how smokey the moly-encapsulated bullets are. Plus I shoot exclusively outdoors, in desert winds... $315 for 6300. If these bullets end up sucking I'll try some Berry's later.

About $630 plus miscellaneous shipping charges... just within budget. Ah... I see my wife is putting the gas can back in the shed...

Once again, you have my gratitude. This forum (and the people here) rocks my socks off.

Kindest Regards,

big kahuna

Big K,

..welcome to the club! I'm just starting in USPSA also, not a Marine..rather Army & still in.

These USPSA/IPSC guys definately have this art form down (HA). I only wish SOMEONE had introduced it to me when I first came in..in the early 80s. I learned, perhaps like you, that we were 20 yrs behind these cats and I didn't even know it.

Just wanted to congratulate you on having an "open mind", as many of us get schooled @ our 1st match and then never come back.

I'm working on a production rating now myself and plan to enter Limted w/a Glock 20 soon, when I develope the load.

Wish you the best...good shooting,

Jay

Jay,

Thanks amigo! You are completely right about being 20 years behind... but in my case it may be closer to 30 . I did get schooled my first match.. and my second... and I needed that arse-whippin' to get me humbled enough to open my mind and want to learn. I'm one of those folks that needs to pee on the electric fence to learn .

Good luck in Limited with your G20!

Best wishes & kindest regards,

big kahuna

[Loves2Shoot]

PM me your address and I'll send you a older Pact Club timer I have gathering dust if you want.

[big_kahuna]

PM me your address and I'll send you a older Pact Club timer I have gathering dust if you want.

PM sent, good sir... Thank you! Can I at least pay shipping?

kr

big kahuna