Speeding Up Splits

[bruce282]

So I finally had enough quiet in the range to get my timer to record only my shoots, and I shoot a Bill Drill, 7 yards, draw and fire 6 shoots all A's. Wrote down my times and started searching around the site for info on what a good time might be. I'm a D class and shoot the drill with a 40S&W CZ using 180gr factory ball.

Draw 1.56,

splits .46

.38

.30

.43

.34 for a 3.47 total. Master class time seems to be around 2 seconds. My question is I know practicing my draw will speed that up, but what's the best method to reduce my split times? I really felt as though I was pulling the trigger as fast as I coud.

Thanks,

Bruce

[Rocket35]

Master times are probably more around the 1.5 second mark. But to aid your splits you need to loosen your grip and see the front sight lift and return. Easier said than done, I know, but hope this helps. Try practicing in dryfire to a par times of 2.5 then 2.0 seconds until you can run the drill with a loose grip and smooth draws consistantly in the par time allotted. Then I think you will start to see some real results on the range.

[Flexmoney]

Hard to pull the trigger faster when you grip is tight...or, you are trying.

Do some research on grip (and stance). And, shoot with your vision guiding you.

[simonsay]

Not shooting specific. The hardest thing in the world to do is rush and relax at the same time.

[Loves2Shoot]

Master times are probably more around the 1.5 second mark. But to aid your splits you need to loosen your grip and see the front sight lift and return. Easier said than done, I know, but hope this helps. Try practicing in dryfire to a par times of 2.5 then 2.0 seconds until you can run the drill with a loose grip and smooth draws consistantly in the par time allotted. Then I think you will start to see some real results on the range.

1.5 as an average for masters? That's a .85 second draw and .14 splits. That's a great open class GM score (Saul Kirsch in his book Perfect Practice states his best EVER is 1.47)

2 seconds is a very good score.

The key to quicker splits for me is sight (or dot) awareness and trigger prep. Learning to break the shot when the FS comes into the notch and in the A zone is key. Become an obesrver of what happens when you shoot and you will learn a lot.

Edited June 29, 2006 by Loves2Shoot

[Rocket35]

I just made Master in L10 and I have shot it in the 1.6-1.7 range, for sometime now. So I would think that a solid Master could pull off a 1.50. I also said "around 1.50 mark". JMHO?? No doubt about it, you have to be on it and things need to be just right.

[Loves2Shoot]

I just made Master in L10 and I have shot it in the 1.6-1.7 range, for sometime now. So I would think that a solid Master could pull off a 1.50. I also said "around 1.50 mark". JMHO?? No doubt about it, you have to be on it and things need to be just right.

Then don't cut yourself short, if you are shooting 6 shots at 7 yards ALL A's ALL the time in 1.6-1.7 you are shooting great times... Saul is one of the better shooters in the world and has some of the quicker splits, and those were his words AND shooting open.

I've shot matches with great shooters (world champions/multi time national champions) and know their splits and draws aren't the speeds needed to acheive those times. Take that for what you will. Balls to wall pratice times don't mean much.

I saw Manny Bragg a couple weeks ago blow a draw, he took the time to re-grip (about a 1.8 draw at 10 yards) and rip of all A's on 8 targets (2 shots each), no spilt was below .2-.22 I'd guess and he easily won the stage.

The Bill Drill is about control for me, all A's or nothing counts, the speed isn't the hard part, the all A's is much harder for most.

Edited June 29, 2006 by Loves2Shoot

[shred]

Yeah, as a sometimes top-20 Master (and outright stage winner at Area 1 ), I'm doing well to run a Bill Drill under 2, especially cold, first-run.

That probably says something about the importance of Bill Drills in our sport today.

I do see the sights on every shot.

The truth for me was splits increased all on their own without me doing anything about it besides shooting and learning. The triple-six drill is a great one to figure out what you need to see and what splits you have at 7, 15 and 25 yards. Each run comes with a free Bill Drill too!

[Loves2Shoot]

Shred is shooting open also...

The ONLY reason I posted in this thread is that many newer shooters try to much for the times at the expense of fundamentals, and that can be very harmful to improvement.

Some of the times posted on the net are much faster than those used to win major matches by the best shooters in the world...

(nice post shred, especially the part about seeing the sights on every shot)

Edited June 29, 2006 by Loves2Shoot

[Ron Ankeny]

So I would think that a solid Master could pull off a 1.50.

It's easier for me to shoot 95%-100% on any number of classifiers than it is to pull off a 1.50 Bill Drill on demand.

FWIW, in a post on another shooting forum Matt Burkett told me a "solid" Master Class Bill Drill runs around 1.7 and change.

[AlamoShooter]

A match slows me down by 10 to 15% off of average practice times.

[dsb45acp]

OK, I can do this in about 2.2 to 2.5 seconds with all "A" hits. Can anybody give me some pointers to help improve my splits? I am trying (and I know I shouldn't) to loosen my right hand grip and relax my trigger finger but just can't seem to get where I want to be. Are there any mods I can make to the trigger? Should I try more dry fire and visualization? Anything is helpful because I consider this to be a weak spot in my shooting.

[BSeevers]

My fastest Bill Drill is 1.53 all A's. My cold run is usually 1.75 -2.00. At this level a .10 is everything. I look at a BD is a first drill to teach you "how" to shoot fast but later its used to measure your level of relaxation and sight picture needs.

Now as mentioned a 15 yd Bill Drill shows a different skill set and should be practiced. On those I am usually .2-.4 slower. My best 50 yard BD is 4.55, try that one too

Edited June 29, 2006 by BSeevers

[Rocket35]

Take for instance Steve Anderson who shot the two string classifier "Can you Count" in a match with. Both times were in the mid 2 sec range. That is a draw, 5 shots, reload and five more shots. And there is Jake Divita who shot an El Pres in under 3 seconds. Both GM's in open. But I still have to believe that when you see what you need to see and are relaxed it is doable for a master level shooter to do in that 1.5 sec BALLPARK. I was thinking that we were taking about speeding up splits in the first place? I commented on speed initially, but technically it doesn't take much more time to hit an A as apposed to hitting a C. I am never going to give in and except a "benchmark" time/score as being as good as it can get. Always strive for better.

[SRT Driver]

Bruce,

Are you concerned with physically being able able to shoot faster splits (finger speed)? Or seeing faster?

During your drills what do you see?

[uscbigdawg]

A drill that helped (and still helps) me out when I was new was doing Matt Burkett's timing drills.

Basically, go through the grip progression and see what works best (loose, medium, tight, etc.). Then, work on shooting perfect groups, watching the sights rise and fall with each shot. This is really good with Matt, 'cause he'll call the cadence something like, "See the sights, prep the trigger, fire. See the sights, prep the trigger, fire." and so on.

With our group, he did this doing like calling a cadence of like 10 shots in 10 seconds. Then like 6, then 4. The point for the 1 second split was that you had so much time between shots, that you couldn't help but notice the sights rise and fall.

So, when we progressed to the shorter par times, 1 - you were doing all the mechanical parts in rhythm; 2 - you were seeing everything you needed to see. And best of all, it showed on paper.

Mental side: When I'm in my groove I know I can do a Bill drill in open or limited under 2. In Open it's like 1.7-1.8. In Limited it's like right at 2.0 with a 2.2 being normal. The key though is that I never try to shoot that fast. I just shoot and it is that fast. My biggest mental hitch is not just DOING what I know I can do. I push to try and MAKE myself do what I know I can do rather than just doing it, and that's where my mistakes happen.

Rich

Edited June 30, 2006 by uscbigdawg

[Steve Anderson]

That 2 second benchmark is ancient in my opinion.

If you want a faster bill drill, practice shooting 6 into the berm without a target.

You need to learn what this kind of speed "feels" like, then you need to learn what it looks like.

As you shoot into the berm, pay attention to the gun...watch what the sites do. The gun doesn't move that much, and you can time the sights coming together without waiting for it to happen.

Splits in a match are largely unimportant, btw. There are many ways to save time before your splits hurt you. They are also so dependent on target distance and size that it's hard to generalize any discussion of match splits, anyway.

If match splits were that important, we'd have awards for them.

I have shot a .11 in a match (BJ Norris on the timer) but the target was 3 feet away at the end of the stage and the LAST thing I was thinking about was cranking off that .11. It just happened.

BTW, If you undertake a serious effort to improve your bill drills, I wanna be your ammo dealer! :)

SA

[uscbigdawg]

Steve,

You're a mind reader.

Splits in a match are largely unimportant, btw. There are many ways to save time before your splits hurt you.

Where I found that new shooters can improve their match performance is speeding up on transitions between targets. Whether it's 3-4 targets shoulder to shoulder or 3-4 in an array at varying distances, getting the gun off of one target and onto the next is where you can make up some monterous amounts of time. I did the math after working with Mike Voigt and combining a drill that I picked up from Matt Burkett and Bennie Cooley. Reading what happens on the clock and accepting that where the time is made and lost.

Steve's book is spectacular in this aspect. Transitions, transitions, transitions.

Rich

[Genghis]

The key though is that I never try to shoot that fast. I just shoot and it is that fast.

Superb post!

[bruce282]

Bruce,

Are you concerned with physically being able able to shoot faster splits (finger speed)? Or seeing faster?

During your drills what do you see?

John,

Sorry it took so long to answer, I've been on vacation.

I guess it would be finger speed, when I shot the drill I wasn't trying to get A's, just trying to see how fast I could get 6 shots off after a draw. The A's just happened. And to be honest I'm not sure what I see, before I draw I'm thinking Front Sight, Front Sight. And normally I do for the 1st shot, then I 'think' I see the sights move up and back. I do my shooting at the indoor NRA range in Virginia, so I may be subconsciously slowing down a little bit to make sure I don't bounce one off the floor into the backstop.

I shot Summer Blast yesterday, my first big USPSA match. I decided I was going to make sure I saw my sights where I wanted them before I let the shoot go, regardless of how long it took. I'm a D class Production shooter, and I guess I did OK for my first full year of shooting. I know I'm at a disadvantage on any stage with a lot of movement, given my age and iffy knees, so I'm going to work on my accuracy.

Bruce

[Steve Moneypenny]

Some great advise here. but with splits in the 30's i'd definitley work on them. they need to be .3 or under to be much savings. most people shoot around a .2 in normal match conditions.

[Loves2Shoot]

Unless you are Tom Dean, I shot with him for the first time this weekend, and talk about wicked splits in a match...

He absolutely nailed one array of two targets and two USP poppers in a time that fast open shooters would envy.

[Ben Stoeger]

The best way I have found to improve shot to shot split times is to do bill drills at a distance that I can't see the hits as fast as I can pull the trigger. (7 yard bill drills are basically index hosing a lot of the time) I have found about 15 yards to be a good distance to push my "see speed" faster.

The more I push my see speed, the faster I see hits (obviously). So, when I come to closer targets (like we see in a match), I can see hits faster than my finger can shoot them. I naturally am more relaxed, so I naturally and without effort shoot faster.

I am not a split god, but I have been able to get my split times down a little bit.

One other thing I notice on on this thread is that the discussion of splits on this forum almost always will bring commentary about how split times arent that important. This may be true, but fast splits are cool to watch and fun to shoot. That should be incentive enough to learn how to do it.

Later,

Ben

Edited July 11, 2006 by Ben Stoeger

[Loves2Shoot]

Ben,

I think you brought up a good point, good splits are the ones that hit the A zone. Seeing is the fastest way I know to get fast splits also, as soon as the sight comes back into focus, break the shot.

[Steve Moneypenny]

I feel the other end of the spectrum is needed first. For me Being able to pull the trigger (hitting anything more than the back stop asside) was dificult. Today i shot my first .10 split until then my Personal best was about .13. That said when i could do a max of .15 i was running .22-.25 in a match getting A's now i can run high teens and hit my A's with just as much consistancy. Timing of your gun is huge on this and it returning very quickly