Proposed Modifications To Us Revolver Division Rules

[hdgun]

I'm not in favor of changing the application of Rule 6.2.5.1 in this situation. Keep in mind this rule is not just a revolver rule, it also controls shooters in other divisions who game the equipment beyond the division rules. I think this one could be a slippery slope.

I don't like the idea that somebody would decide to shoot Revo with an 8-shot revolver, just to have that extra round to use now and then whenever one more quick shot to finish the stage would be preferable to taking an extra standing reload or scoring a miss. I don't think it would affect anybody at the higher end of the match results, frankly, but if we're going to try to attract more shooters into pulling out "Grandpa's .38" and shooting with us, the last thing we need them to see is that sort of stuff going on.

Remember how many people felt that SIX-RELOAD-SIX was our fundamental rule, and the rest didn't matter too much? Rule 6.2.5.1 just helps keep everybody honest.

And, if you're shooting a 7- and 8-shooter, and you make an honest mistake and pop off an extra round, then no big deal, you smack yourself in the forehead and have fun the rest of the match shooting in Open.

I say leave this one alone.

+++++1

[10mmdave]

I say leave this one alone.

+++++1

Well if the A7 Revolver champ agrees then I guess I'll just have ta go along to

[aerosigns]

I am with Dr. Mike, and the think tank from the Dremelogical Institute for Higher Learning. He has my proxy.

We shoot Revos because we like to abuse ourselves, and don't need others to do it to/for us.

After the basic equipment is purchased, it's what skills to 'I' bring to the table, and not the 5-10K gun that I bought. In the true sense of being a shooter, I am really competing against myself and no one else. Allowing me to shoot an 8-shooter does not improve me, it just let's me game other people.

But I welcome those people who already own an 8-shooter. I don't hurt them by having them shoot only six. Plus, they get the advantage of getting to drop their moon with two live rounds still attached. The extra weight benefit should offset the loss of two rounds fired.

Good articulation Master Mike.

Jim

[Carmoney]

OK, we've had the poll active now for ten days. As of right now, the vote count is 43 Yes, and 3 No. After we modified the parameters slightly, one guy has indicated he'd like to change his vote to a Yes.

So it's 44 to 2 in favor of implementing the new equipment definition.

Gary Stevens, you were kind enough to offer to bring this proposal before the board, I'd like to officially take you up on this offer!

Thanks--and thanks to everyone who participated.

[Mooney]

I'm sorry I just got to this, but I am in for a yes as well. I would like to see the words in the parentheses read a bit different in rule 17 though; Changing it to read something like "Any complete factory built or custom revolver (assembled from any components available to any member of the general public)..."

Aside from that, a lot of great input, and I thank you for your efforts.

[Carmoney]

Our proposed revision has been submitted to the committee which will be drafting the new USPSA rule book. Thanks to Gary Stevens for helping us communicate the proposal.

I believe this will be a positive move that will lead to even more sustained and steady growth in Revolver Division.

[Bubber]

Our proposed revision has been submitted to the committee which will be drafting the new USPSA rule book. Thanks to Gary Stevens for helping us communicate the proposal.

I believe this will be a positive move that will lead to even more sustained and steady growth in Revolver Division.

Thanx guys

[Waltermitty]

+1 Thanks for your hard work.

[chendersby]

Ok revolver guys what do you think of this?

I see major problems with the shoot six load six thing. It is hard enough to RO without having to count shots. Basically you guys are looking to make the rules more like limited so why not follow the 40 minimum for major rule. That way the 7 and 8 shot revolvers can play also.

Just asking not proposing anything.

[Viggen]

Ok revolver guys what do you think of this?

I see major problems with the shoot six load six thing. It is hard enough to RO without having to count shots. Basically you guys are looking to make the rules more like limited so why not follow the 40 minimum for major rule. That way the 7 and 8 shot revolvers can play also.

Just asking not proposing anything.

NO. I have never seen six load six to be a problem for an RO. If there was ever a question just look at the two rounds remaining on the moonclips. 7's and 8's play right now just fine with the shooter knowing how to count to 6. You don't have to shoot Major, but you can, either is competetive. As to running a .40, 6-holer or a 38/357, 8-holer but shooting 6, run the 8 holer. The reloads are MUCH more consistent. And if you want to make major you make Major at 165 with the 8-holer, you don't need a 40 to do that.

With revolver the game is accurate and fast shooting, quick transition, and smooth reloads.

If you haven't tried it, give it a whirl.

The 7&8-hole in USPSA has been covered before, do a search.

Edited July 9, 2006 by Viggen

[hopalong]

Chris,

Thanks for looking, and giving our small but growing division some of your time.

I am a CRO, and have no problems when I see a 7 or 8 shot wheelgun, (around here it is usually a 7 shot 686). It is no different than making sure all steel in the stage are engaged. just let the assiting scorekeeper /RO watch out for that.

as far as the .40 min cal for Major...... It was my impression that when all the caliber limits came up several years back that it was a safety issue to limit the major to .40 or bigger (except in OPEN).

Since the 38/357 guns are designed for that type of loads, they should be allowed to make Major....(my opinion)

Revolver guys/gals are real passionate about their little group, we know we will never be as popular as the autos.............they have 5 divisions, we just want to keep our 1.

Oh and by the way, I do shoot autos too (as most of the other wheelgunners)

Thanks again for the interest and your time for what you do.

SAM KEEN.

Oh yeah, I'm sure the A-2 match would get more wheelgunners to come but just like Nationals.........All the AUTO shooters fill it up too quick.

Maybe one of these days, I'll get lucky enough to go.

[Bill Nesbitt]

Hi Chris,

Thanks for thinking about the revolver shooters.

One point. The RO's are already counting rounds for Limited 10 and Production. Counting for revolvers is even easier. Just look at the 7 or 8 shot moon clips to see if they fired too many rounds.

Also, I am easily making major with my L-Frame 686 in .38 Super with a load right off of the Alliant Powder web site.

[chendersby]

I forgot about the moon clips. OK nevermind.

[Carmoney]

OK fellas, the annual USPSA Board of Directors' meeting is this weekend (Oct. 21-22), and item number three on the agenda is "2008 USPSA Rules approval." So it's time to put this topic back on the front burner!

I would respectfully request that the BOD adopt the changes to the revolver equipment rules as proposed above. Looks like our "final vote" on the poll here is 56 YES and 4 NO (remember, RGS said we should change his vote to a yes after we slightly re-drafted the language early on), so we have a very solid consensus behind this.

Thanks again to everyone who provided input, and thanks in advance to the BOD members for their careful consideration of this proposal.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

I would also support this and ask that the BOD seriously consider the changes and vote them in.

With the growth seen in the revolver division, this will help in attracting more revolver shooters and more members to the USPSA.

I look forward to reading the minutes of the meeting.

To my A7 Director, We have seen a growth in this section and your support will be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Gary TY43215

Edited October 20, 2006 by Round_Gun_Shooter

[10mmdave]

+1 what Gary said, and so well I must add

A53502

Edited October 20, 2006 by 10mmdave

[Carmoney]

Now it's 61 to 4. Even better.

[10mmdave]

OK fellas, the annual USPSA Board of Directors' meeting is this weekend (Oct. 21-22), and item number three on the agenda is "2008 USPSA Rules approval." So it's time to put this topic back on the front burner!

So I'm assuming we won't see these new rules until 2008 ??

What happened to 2007 ??

Just wondering

[jasond]

i'm shooting an 8-shot - in production. just trying to embarass a bottom feeder or two! it's legal for l10 also, can't see why a revo shooter couldn't be bumped to that class in case of an extra shot. i don't want to see any custom rebarrels in revo - is that the real intent of this rule?

[Carmoney]

OK guys, looks like the BOD has responded favorably to our request. The draft rules that have been proposed for the next rulebook read as follows. This accomplishes exactly what we intended to accomplish--to permit more revolvers (and modifications thereto) to be used in Revolver Division without the potential ambiguities in the current rulebook:

APPENDIX D5

Revolver Division

1 Minimum power factor for Major 165

2 Minimum power factor for Minor 125

3 Minimum bullet weight No

4 Minimum bullet caliber / cartridge case length 9mm (0.354”) / 19mm (0.748”)

5 Minimum bullet caliber for Major No

6 Minimum trigger pull No

7 Maximum handgun size No

8 Maximum magazine length Not applicable

9 Maximum ammunition capacity No, maximum of 6 rounds fired before

reload

10 Max. distance of handgun and mags/speed loaders from inner side

of belt

Handgun 1 5/8" - Mags 1"

11 Rule 5.2.3.1 applies Yes

12 Restriction on position of holster and other equipment No

13 Optical/electronic sights permitted No

14 Compensators permitted No

15 Barrel ports permitted No

16 Slide ports permitted Not applicable

17 Maximum weight No

18 Handgun specific approval for Division No (see Special Conditions below)

19 Holster restrictions No

20 Authorized modifications External modifications

Internal modifications

21 Prohibited modifications Not applicable

Special conditions:

• Any complete revolver (or a revolver assembled from components) available to the

general public is permitted.

• "Self-loading" revolvers with retractable slides are prohibited in this Division.

All of this opens the door to continued growth in Revolver Division. I want to personally thank the BOD for paying attention to this. We owe a special debt of gratitude to Area 5 Director Gary Stevens, who pitched in with this discussion early on and agreed to carry the water for us--Gary, I knew you would follow through for us!

[Waltermitty]

All of this opens the door to continued growth in Revolver Division. I want to personally thank the BOD for paying attention to this. We owe a special debt of gratitude to Area 5 Director Gary Stevens, who pitched in with this discussion early on and agreed to carry the water for us--Gary, I knew you would follow through for us!

I add my thanks! I am excited about the coming year and the opportunities we have to grow our division.

[haras]

I add my thanks! I am excited about the coming year and the opportunities we have to grow our division.

+1 Thanks Mike and Gary

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

20 Authorized modifications External modifications

Internal modifications

I add my thanks also. Can someone clarify this? Are All modifications allowed in these proposed rule changes?

Guess I am just a little thick

[AzShooter]

Thanks to everyone for all their work and especially Carmoney and Gary. It's hard to go against the flow. Looks like this is what people really want.

Maybe ICORE will do the same some day.

And now you can even shoot your revolver in Production without having to have your moons behind the hip. Things are looking up.

[10mmdave]

20 Authorized modifications External modifications

Internal modifications

I add my thanks also. Can someone clarify this? Are All modifications allowed in these proposed rule changes?

Guess I am just a little thick

That part got me too Gary....but I think the clarification should be asked for over on the USPSA forum.

And a thanks from myself also, this whole thing started from Hdgun's little holes in his underlug

to my fully whittled away 610 barrel, who would have thunk it would have gotten to this

So now we can basically create the revolver we asked the manufactures to make and be legal in 2008.

Guess I have to see how the IPSC rules are shaping up.