ryan45kim Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 I need to put a new barrel in my limited gun. I have always run bushing barrels (both my limited guns are Paras) but was thinking about trying a bull barrel this time so. What are the advantages or disadvantages of each type of barrel. I’ve always heard (range talk) that bushing barrels are more accurate but this is just hearsay. PS. I know I have to run a Ed Brown bull barrel because the outside diameter is .703 and Paras slides have an inside diameter to large for most bull barrels (I miked it at .700 ID) so any comments on Ed Brown barrels would be appreciated also. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 I have a bull barrel in my limited gun now. My next limited barrel will be a bushing barrel to get the weight out of the front of the gun. I want the gun absolutely as light as I can get it at this point in my shooting, and I want what weight there is to be in my hands instead of hanging out in front of them. 100% personal preference. If you like heavy guns a bull barrel will add weight. It will also slow the unlock and slide speed down a little. For me it takes some of the sharpness out of the gun. I have only owned one EB barrel, and it was a good barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gans Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 I have installed quite a few Ed Brown barrels and have not had any problems with them. There should not be any accuracy difference between either style. As stated, the bull will give you more weight up front if that is what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hostetter Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 The advantage(?) of a bull barrel over a bushing barrel is the added weight in the front of the gun, the additional weight in the barrel tends to soften the felt recoil, AND the bull barrel mechnically is capable of better accuracy. The reason why the potential difference in accuracy is with a bull barrel you have the clearances between the barrel and the slide and with a bushing barrel you have the clearances between the barrel and the bushing and the clearances between the bushing and the slide. Most of the time the potential differences in mechncal accuracy are very small especially when the barrel is fit by someone who knows what they are doing. I have used both in Limited guns over the pass couple of decades and have settled on using a bushing barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 I’ve always heard (range talk) that bushing barrels are more accurate but this is just hearsay. We have had a few threads on that in the past. Those that would know call it a wash, accuracy-wise. You've already got some great input on this thread. Gans barrel fitting gets awesome reviews from the guys in our area...and, I think that is saying something. And, Bob is affiliated with Bar-sto...'nuff said. (Hey, just saw your location, you are practically in Gans' backyard...and, he works Paras ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan45kim Posted June 12, 2006 Author Share Posted June 12, 2006 Flex you are right about that, I've meet Gary at East Huntingdon and I've seen his work (just sent him an E-mail). Thanks for the replys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul B Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 My Para has a Scheumann bull barrel in it and am getting excellent accuracy. I do use one of the reverse spring caps with a lug at the top of it which contacts the bottom of the barrel and makes the barrel slide fit perfect (cannot remember who makes these, but you can find them in Brownells). I do like the extra weight in the Para. It is just enough. By the way, do not expect a drop in fit. Even though the bull barrels can have the same cut they will have to be fitted in the Para. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted December 25, 2006 Share Posted December 25, 2006 I am building a limited gun with two barrels a bull and a bushing... though i think the bushing will get more use as i like a fast light gun. bushing barrel, tungsten guide rod... FAST cycling pistol with still soft recoil. seems like a bull barrel smacks the frame harder when the gun unlocks.. when hand cycling the slide...you year a "clunk" on a bull barreled gun when the feet smack the frame. It doesnt seem to be as loud when a bushing gun does this. Harmon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Capizzo Posted December 25, 2006 Share Posted December 25, 2006 I shot a Para .40 with Ed Brown bull barrel for several years and was very happy with the combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packed Posted December 25, 2006 Share Posted December 25, 2006 (edited) I am very happy with the extra weight and accuracy is very wonderful here Edited December 25, 2006 by packed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted December 25, 2006 Share Posted December 25, 2006 I think at a certain point every shooter needs a gun that transitions faster vs shoots softer. more time to shave between targets vs between shots on a target. Harmon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted December 25, 2006 Share Posted December 25, 2006 added. AL, there was no compensator to blow off of the para...thats why it was so good. harmon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bird_Dog0347 Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 I have a STI with a short dustcover and bushing barrel, and an Edge with a long dustcover and bull barrel. The edge has some slide lightening and fluting on the frame, but only weighs 3.2oz more unloaded. I don't know about you, but when I am shooting, I really don't believe I will think it is that much heavier. Totally personal preference. ...... I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz-0 Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 I think at a certain point every shooter needs a gun that transitions faster vs shoots softer.more time to shave between targets vs between shots on a target. Harmon +1 on that from a guy with a heavy 1911 with a bull barrel. The increased accuracy, if any, of a well fit bull vs. a well fit bushing barrel is going to be negligable on anything but random luck on breaking a perf. The wieght of a bul barrel plus a full length dust cover is something you are going to notice at speed trying to cut down the time on transitions at some point. I don't know if it will prevent you from reaching your maximum possible performance, but it is something you will have to compensate for in the process of getting there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 Is it the barrel or slide weight you want to reduce? I have a 5" SV that Bennie made into a "fat free". The slide weighs about 10.5 oz and cycles fast but it has a Schuemann bull barrel and a tungsten guide rod. I like this better than the "long-heavy" guns and even slightly better than the classic guns with the 12 oz slides. I tried a bushing barrel and didn't like the way it unlocked on the hicap guns and went back to the bull. So think this out...? Two local young hot shots are shooting nearly identical guns albeit different brands. Both have classic slides and short dust covers with bushing barrels legal for IDPA. BUT, one runs a 17# recoil spring while the other runs a 9 or 10# spring in .40 with 185 grain bullets. I don't like the 10# spring, the gun never comes back to the point of aim for me. The 17# spring brings the gun down hard to the point of aim and pushes past it. The guy with the 10# spring is 6'4" and 260 lbs. He muscles it back down while the other guy is short and stubby like me. I see guys shooting .40s with 10# springs or less. Where is the recoil going? Newton's third law surley applies! At 12#s the gun brings the slide forward enough and fast enough to find the front sight but the lighter spring needs help...? Mick A27257 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 (edited) you must be talking about stockton...I agree 10 is too light and 17 is too heavy. something like a 14 is what i like as the gun comes right back to target. the 10 pound spring seems like the gun flips alot. my goal for my new gun is to have it balance like a single stack...and i can shoot that as fast as i care to shoot iron sights...any faster(.13 split) and i get deltas and mikes. harmon Edited December 26, 2006 by Harmon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hostetter Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 Keep in mind what the spring does when the gun is fired. First it keeps the breech closed until the gun is fired and slows the rearward motion of the slide. Then it pushes the slide forward back into battery. The spring controls the rearward motion of the slide by absorbing the energy of the slide and storing it. It then pushes the slide forward by releasing the same energy. The springs ability or capacity to store energy is based on it's rating (10, 15, 20 lbs, etc). Mechnical recoil is felt in a couple of different ways. One of which is how hard the slide hits the frame at the end of its rearward travel. As the slide hits the frame it pushes the frame rearward causing muzzle flip. As you increase spring rates more energy is absorbed by the spring reducing the felt impact of the slide on the frame reducing muzzle flip. But as the spring absorbs more energy it pushes the slide forward with more energy increasing the felt impact at the end of it's forward motion, causing the muzzle to dip. Both muzzle flip and muzzle dip cause the front sight to move interferring with the sight picture, in other words both extend the recoil event time frame, increasing the time necessary between 'well' aimed shots. Playing with spring rates is an excellent way to fine tune a gun once you have a basic platform and load. When playing with springs you should use a timer rather then feel, to evaluate them. Often times what feels the best, is not what you are fastest with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 Playing with spring rates is an excellent way to fine tune a gun once you have a basic platform and load. When playing with springs you should use a timer rather then feel, to evaluate them. Often times what feels the best, is not what you are fastest with. That is the gospel truth. Springs and other changes made to the gun can really only be evaluated on the timer and balanced against hits. I bought a gun and could shoot it pretty well, thought there might be more performance to be gained so I changed things over a couple matches until I liked it. I had that gun feeling absolutely fantastic, felt stable, fast, flat, really felt like exactly what I wanted to feel. My performance with it set up like that fell of a LOT. Put it back the way the smith sent it to me and performance came right back. I have since made some more changes but they are VERY minor changes, and the timer combined with hits are my yardstick to measure those changes. Some work and some don't, some will work for me and not you. Test and tune is the name of the game when looking for the very last bit of performance a gun will give. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 Keep in mind what the spring does when the gun is fired. First it keeps the breech closed until the gun is fired and slows the rearward motion of the slide. Then it pushes the slide forward back into battery. The spring controls the rearward motion of the slide by absorbing the energy of the slide and storing it. It then pushes the slide forward by releasing the same energy.The springs ability or capacity to store energy is based on it's rating (10, 15, 20 lbs, etc). Mechnical recoil is felt in a couple of different ways. One of which is how hard the slide hits the frame at the end of its rearward travel. As the slide hits the frame it pushes the frame rearward causing muzzle flip. As you increase spring rates more energy is absorbed by the spring reducing the felt impact of the slide on the frame reducing muzzle flip. But as the spring absorbs more energy it pushes the slide forward with more energy increasing the felt impact at the end of it's forward motion, causing the muzzle to dip. Both muzzle flip and muzzle dip cause the front sight to move interferring with the sight picture, in other words both extend the recoil event time frame, increasing the time necessary between 'well' aimed shots. Playing with spring rates is an excellent way to fine tune a gun once you have a basic platform and load. When playing with springs you should use a timer rather then feel, to evaluate them. Often times what feels the best, is not what you are fastest with. Well said... I have been using a 14#chrome silicon springs since Sandy gave me one to try in '96. It is the best balance that I have felt although I like a 16 in my .45 when I use ball ammo. And yes, that is Mr Scotty who uses a 10# spring, I didn't like the way it felt. I found that little bump from the slide to frame contact at the back end of the stroke help the rounds in the mag move up also. I've been told it is common place lately to use the lightest spring possible to strip rounds from the mag to the chamber and this often results in a less than 10# weight. So, the energy is going into the frame and your hand and not the spring. I didn't care for that at all. The front sight was always too high when I was ready to fire again...I guess it can be learned as several good shooters do this. Mick A27257 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted December 26, 2006 Share Posted December 26, 2006 Keep in mind what the spring does when the gun is fired. First it keeps the breech closed until the gun is fired and slows the rearward motion of the slide. Then it pushes the slide forward back into battery. The spring controls the rearward motion of the slide by absorbing the energy of the slide and storing it. It then pushes the slide forward by releasing the same energy. The springs ability or capacity to store energy is based on it's rating (10, 15, 20 lbs, etc). Mechnical recoil is felt in a couple of different ways. One of which is how hard the slide hits the frame at the end of its rearward travel. As the slide hits the frame it pushes the frame rearward causing muzzle flip. As you increase spring rates more energy is absorbed by the spring reducing the felt impact of the slide on the frame reducing muzzle flip. But as the spring absorbs more energy it pushes the slide forward with more energy increasing the felt impact at the end of it's forward motion, causing the muzzle to dip. Both muzzle flip and muzzle dip cause the front sight to move interferring with the sight picture, in other words both extend the recoil event time frame, increasing the time necessary between 'well' aimed shots. Playing with spring rates is an excellent way to fine tune a gun once you have a basic platform and load. When playing with springs you should use a timer rather then feel, to evaluate them. Often times what feels the best, is not what you are fastest with. Well said... I have been using a 14#chrome silicon springs since Sandy gave me one to try in '96. It is the best balance that I have felt although I like a 16 in my .45 when I use ball ammo. And yes, that is Mr Scotty who uses a 10# spring, I didn't like the way it felt. I found that little bump from the slide to frame contact at the back end of the stroke help the rounds in the mag move up also. I've been told it is common place lately to use the lightest spring possible to strip rounds from the mag to the chamber and this often results in a less than 10# weight. So, the energy is going into the frame and your hand and not the spring. I didn't care for that at all. The front sight was always too high when I was ready to fire again...I guess it can be learned as several good shooters do this. Mick A27257 Mick, i agree with you on the springs...too light and i fear you will eventually damage your gun with too light of a spring I also like the gun to settle itself some, not enough to get a big dip, like the guys who use 18 pound springs in their 45s...but thats my opinion. i think an undersprung gun is askin for trouble,, but again, opinion. Harmon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 My right elbow is still sore from shooting 180s at 1030 from the old PF!!! That gun is still running too. Maybe the right spring kept it from beating itself to pieces? 180s at 950 for a 171 pf is much easier on me... Mick A27257 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted December 29, 2006 Share Posted December 29, 2006 You can use any bull barrel with a .700 slide dia. If fit up right it should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxximuss Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I would like to bring this old post back to life and get some clarification. I shoot USPSA Limited and multigun. I have been running a Glock 35 for the last couple years. I LOVE my Glock but I think it's time to diversify. I am have been debating on a STI Edge, Eagle, or Tactical. The Eagle would be bushing barrel and the other two are bull barrels. Outside of just personal preference between barrel types does one have a distinct advantage? Noticeable accuracy, reliability, longevity... would I sacrifice any of these by going to a bushing barrel? I found a good deal on an STI Eagle 5" with a bushing barrel. Would I regret this purchase and wish for a bull barrel later? Given my past handgun experience (Glock) would I really benefit with a front heavy gun(Bull barrel & full dust cover)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike21STI Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I just had a custom double stack built with a bushing barrel, the reason I went with a bushing barrel was so I can use it in any of the games we play. A lot of people like the bull barrel because it gives extra weight out front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShooterSteve Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 All of yor answers are in the previous posts. Nothing has changed in this area that I am aware of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now