SteveZ Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 CM06-11 I see no problems starting with the slide locked back CM06-08: Says starting in the box...but doesn't say you have to shoot from within the box...so I guess foot faults are OK. CM06-06: So lets say a shooter faults the box during string 1 and then argues that the statement "All rounds fired must be from within Box A." only applies to string 2 because its part of paragraph 2 as applied to string 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 Also, on CM06-11, there's no direction about where ammo is? I presume it would be legal to start with a mag on the table?? CM06-06: So lets say a shooter faults the box during string 1 and then argues that the statement "All rounds fired must be from within Box A." only applies to string 2 because its part of paragraph 2 as applied to string 2? There just needs to be more space, there - the sentence is obviously referring to the whole stage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 (edited) CM06-11 I see no problems starting with the slide locked backCM06-08: Says starting in the box...but doesn't say you have to shoot from within the box...so I guess foot faults are OK. CM06-06: So lets say a shooter faults the box during string 1 and then argues that the statement "All rounds fired must be from within Box A." only applies to string 2 because its part of paragraph 2 as applied to string 2? That's a good catch on 06-08, Steve. Looks like 06-07, 06-09, and 06-10 are equally ambiguous. If they weren't all-steel stages I might think it was a deliberate ommision to promote Freestyle. But since it would allow an un-wise shooter to literally run up into the danger zone, I emailed John A. and asked whether they might want to add a line stating all rounds must be fired from within the shooting box. Time will tell... Edited June 2, 2006 by ima45dv8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveZ Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 (edited) There just needs to be more space, there - the sentence is obviously referring to the whole stage... I know that...and you know that...but I could see the argument made by someone who screws up and wants to push the issue. There is so much discussion about "intent" on classifiers but it seems that all of these problems could have been solved with a careful review by a few experienced shooters prior to publishing. Regarding the "mags on the table" issue...from prior conversations with JA...if its not written in the WSB....its OK. And we've already discussed the "placement" of mags in the past (doesn't have to be on the belt). Edited June 2, 2006 by SteveZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRT Driver Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 These may point to the new direction USPSA is taking..very IPSC-esque. Starting with unloaded guns, slide locked back, low round counts (short course like), high speed and even classic targets. Hmmmm!!! Now we need more movement!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomneal Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 Did anyone notice that you can now have 6 classifiers at an all classifier match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 Where did you see that, Tom? Here's what I see: "Requesting A Special Classifier Twice a year, a club may run a Level I Special match. This match consists of two to a maximum of four classifier courses selected from this National Classification Course Book." And then in the next paragraph: "A Special, when run within a regular club match, will allow a shooter to get up to four scores toward his classification—one regular course of fire and three Special courses of fire." Just wondering.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomneal Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 6 classifiers it's in the minutes of the March 2006 Directors meeting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 6 classifiersit's in the minutes of the March 2006 Directors meeting Got it. Thanks. I wonder if the new policy allowing 6 is not yet been implemented, or if maybe that detail was overlooked when this new version of the book was published? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomneal Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 also Install the 2.29 upgrade to EzWinScore and look at the 'about' window. First thing in the what's new is: Adds the ability to hold 6 classifier stages at a Level I Special Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 Thanks for the heads-up, Tom. I just updated EWS. (He's just loaded with good info today!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomneal Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 I am always loaded with something;) Today it's "good info". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 USPSA needs to run these past the forum before they post them as ready for viewing. Jeez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 USPSA needs to run these past the forum before they post them as ready for viewing. Jeez. That would save some trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 USPSA needs to run these past the forum before they post them as ready for viewing. Jeez. Yeah, but.... then they'd have to admit that "the shooters" know more than "they and the RO's" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 That was a knee jerk statement on my part. So, I hope it didn't come out sounding too bad. We need to appreciate that somebody went to work and got us some updated classifiers. At the same time, running them past this group before publishing them as "official" is just a good idea. It's pretty easy for this group to find the holes in a stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted June 2, 2006 Share Posted June 2, 2006 How very cool! One of mine from the 2005 Area 6 match made it in!Singlestack and I were talking on the phone one day and were toying with the idea of doing what was basically 4 "Bill Drill's Minus 1". I can't remember now what we were trying to achieve (John, do you?). When I later drew it up for the match and submitted it for review by USPSA it was pointed out that the stage was illegal due to the number of mandated reloads (3 in one string). So, I changed it to 2 strings with a mandated reload in each. USPSA asked for a measured drawing, but I never thought they would actually use it. "Can You Count?" The targets are IN YOUR FACE, so people go really fast on this one. Great spectator appeal. And you know what? More than a few folks couldn't count at that speed. I do remember Our objective was a pure speed shoot that incorporated all of the basic skills. An in your face draw, mag changes and fast trigger speed. IIRC, the orignal (mine btw ) idea was 4 6 round 7 yard Bill Drills with a mag change between each. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 Where's The Ammo START POSITION: Standing, palms flat on table top. Handgun is in empty condition with no round in the chamber or magazine in the gun, and lying flat on table. I would guess that there is no need for the box as you ONLY have to have your palms flat on table at start. Empty condition with regard to what? USPSA unloaded condition rule or just plain "empty"? STAGE PROCEDURE Upon start signal, retrieve gun and engage all targets as visible SCORING: Comstock, 8 rounds, 40 points As long as you do not engage steel closer than 7 yds you can engage the targets from anywhere. Again why the box? I see this one as getting pitched for being poorly worded and shot many ways, unless that was the intent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 I won't shed any tears for "A Barrel of Fun". That stage has always given me trouble. Good riddance. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 As long as you do not engage steel closer than 7 yds you can engage the targets from anywhere. Again why the box?I see this one as getting pitched for being poorly worded and shot many ways, unless that was the intent Does anyone think it will make ANY difference if you leave the box? The targets are 8 yards away, maybe 9 to the closer steel. How far do you want to go before you are too close to the steel, and why would you? The time spent doing that is better spent shooting, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 (edited) Does anyone think it will make ANY difference if you leave the box? HECK YEA! Vlad, to be a little less SUBTLE... WTF was Sedro and crew thinking when that one (06-11) made it through the classification stage selection process? It is a poorly worded start position and stage proceedure at best. IMHO it's not a matter of if it gets pitched, just when. From not even setting the stage up the fastest way I can see to shoot it would be a start position on either side of the table (left or right side, not behind the table because there is no mention of starting in the shooting box) palms flat and unloaded gun slide locked back, mag on table. Grab gun, mag, 90deg pivot load and hose, I do not think that was the intended shooting solution when the stage was selected. No point in having the no-shoot at the table AT ALL because shooting in the above fashion elimiates the no-shoot as a penalty target and a vision barrier. Edited June 3, 2006 by Crusher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted June 3, 2006 Share Posted June 3, 2006 (edited) I guess .. so you gain about 2 feet. Its not like the NS is high enough to do anything even if you are behind it unless the shooter is really short. Personally I would avoid the extra risk of fumble, but I guess it adds a bit of freestyle. I do concur that USPSA should have read the damn thing first and make sure that it was correctly written. I've been saying for a while that they really need to get the biggest gamers on a mailing list and send to them all the new rules and classifiers a couple of weeks ahead of final votes. I find it really amusing that they took out Barrel of Fun because people were shooting it in funny ways and added stages with the same damn problems. Edited June 3, 2006 by Vlad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrell Spicer Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 We shot 06-11 today. I see this one getting tossed soon. The decision was made to start slide down, hammer down. Everyone on my squad pulled a mag from the belt, but nothing says one can't be on the table. A couple of open shooters hit the NS at the table multiple times. I didn't run it very well and missed my first shot on steel, made it up and ran a 6.58 with 40 points, 6.079 HF production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 06-10 has similar issues - on draw, step left or right for no lean... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
open17 Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 06-11 looks like it has a fairly high disaster factor if the shooter chooses to start standing to the side of the table. Looks like there is about 15 inches of room on either side before the shooter breaks 2.1.3, and DQ's under 10.4.7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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