Looking For Some Welding Advice

[John Heiter]

I've been doing a good bit of prop repair/creation around the range lately using a little Mig welder but I'm quickly coming to the understanding that if I'm going to be able to join pieces of steel together, I need to be able to quickly cut them apart too. I have been getting by with an abrasive blade on a cut-off saw and a grinder but I'm thinking it's time to make the jump to the next level.

I don't really have the funds for plasma right now so I'm looking at oxy-fuel torches but I have zero experience with them. I need advice on a good starter/budget rig that will be safe and reliable for hobby level work. Is OxyAcetylene the way to go? What size tanks and how much to rent/lease/buy? Has anyone ever run Oxy-Propane and is that worthwhile? The main reason I ask is that I already have a large propane bottle in the garage reclaimed from an old deer camp that's in great shape and already full. I'd like to keep the whole rig under $500 if I can and would appreciate any advice I can get.

Thanks,

John

[Rob Boudrie]

If you buy a rig, just remember that the cutting tips should be stored INSIDE your gun safe

[iweiny]

It has been a while since I bought my set up but for $500 you can get a good sized rig. Oxy-acetalyne is the way to go IMHO. It takes some getting used to if you have never done it but it works well. I have done countless projects on my Jeep, truck, and trailer. I even hacked on some of the 8" plates for TASC but they are not quite perfected yet...

I _THINK_ my set up is a 5# acetalyne and 10# Oxygen. Or it might be 10 and 15? I forget.

Good luck,

Ira

[standles]

Rob:

Why must you store the cutting tips in the gunsafe? Were you being serious or was it a humerous

John..

Oxy/Acet would be the way I would goinstead of propane. Lowes and/or HD sell good hobby torchces. As for bottles if you buy that is going to add about 300 more to the cost of the torch. Sounds like your not going to be running through it very fast so it might be an option. Make sure you keep the paperwork to prove you own the cyls if it is ever questioned.

Another option is a portable bandsaw. Better than the abrasive and cheaper than the cutting rig for hobby type work on props.

Grizzley for ~170.00

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000DCZ7...glance&n=228013

or HF for around 70.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/disp...temnumber=47840

Edited May 27, 2006 by standles

[D.Hayden]

I have one of the smaller portable Oxy/Acetyl rigs.. they're pretty cheap, about $200-250.. and then just go to the local welding shop and rent tanks. The real small tanks are just like Ira said 5 & 10. They have small carriers that lets you pick the whole thing up s a unit tanks and all, so they're very portable.

Think I have this one:

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?...=TOOL&ihtoken=1

[open17]

Rob:

Why must you store the cutting tips in the gunsafe? Were you being serious or was it a humerous

Actually, It's the whole torch head you want to keep in the safe. If it's INSIDE the

safe, pretty hard for someone to use your torch outfit to cut the safe open. I keep

mine inside, although there are times I wonder if that's the correct thing to do. I

have a BIG safe (walk in). I also store my powder, and a few thousand rounds of loaded

ammo in the safe. Kind of sweet justice if someone were to try to torch it and had a little

accident.

[bayoupirate]

john,

give Joe Touchton a call.

He's in the business of repairing and selling those kinds of tools.

J.T. Repairs at 985-872-4457.

[Steve Moneypenny]

You can use propane just as well, Do a web search on some welding forums. I've been using torches since i was a kid but they are my fathers and i don't know that much about them i can set them and cut steel what more do i need to know.

You need different tips to use propane Some things are better suited for one or the other, propane is much cheaper. ...

I have used a plasma cutter and it is the best when it comes to cutting strait even lines. But cost about $1500.

[mscott]

As Steve said, consider propane. You'll want at least 80lb tanks and they're about $150 each plus your regulator is about $75 per tank. Propane tanks are much cheaper. The little sets are handy to carry around and nice for soldering and brazing, but not for serious cutting. You'll be making plenty of trips to re-fill them. Look at it like your press ... you can load ammo on a single stage, but the money invested in a good progressive is money well spent. If you are willing to spend $500 then spend all of it on a good set from a welding supply store.

Edited May 27, 2006 by mscott

[Rob Boudrie]

Rob:

Why must you store the cutting tips in the gunsafe? Were you being serious or was it a humerous

Actually, It's the whole torch head you want to keep in the safe. If it's INSIDE the

safe, pretty hard for someone to use your torch outfit to cut the safe open. I keep

mine inside, although there are times I wonder if that's the correct thing to do. I

have a BIG safe (walk in). I also store my powder, and a few thousand rounds of loaded

ammo in the safe. Kind of sweet justice if someone were to try to torch it and had a little

accident.

My point exactly. It is not unheard of for miscreants to use tools found at the crime scene to break into containers.

[warpspeed]

I like to use a Port-a-band & Sawzall as much as possible.

One problem you run into if you use a torch is the need to clean up the weld. You can't weld with all the slag the torch leaves behind. I like a torch for demo but avoid it for cutting parts that are to be welded. Unless you have a helper of course

Plasma cutter avoids the slag but are $$$. Cut off wheels wear out too quickly and can be dangerous. I've seen far too many injuries from grinders.

As far as a torch set up, the Lincoln V-10025 can be found for < 200.00.

[open17]

Keep your eyes open for estate sales, school metals departments selling out, etc. Put the

word out at the local welding supply stores that you are looking for a torch set.

Victor is probably the most popular, and easiest to get parts/service for. I picked

up a small Victor set--torch, regulators, cutting and welding heads with tips, rickety

cart and owner bottles at an estate sale a couple of years ago for $100.

Oxy/Acetylene vs. Oxy/Propane. For general use I prefer Oxy/Acetylene. Running

Oxy/Propane handheld seems to throw more heat back toward you hands, and it takes

a steadier hand to maintain the cutting action. Takes longer to preheat the metal also.

Oxy/Propane works GREAT for mechanical cutting operations, and it is a lot cheaper.

[standles]

My point exactly. It is not unheard of for miscreants to use tools found at the crime scene to break into containers.

Hmm.. Never considered that aspect of the issue. Looks like I need to make some alterations to my routine.

Thx for the tip (no pun intended)

[Jody Waring]

Torches definitely are the ticket when you're cutting steel. Propane will suffice, and if your budget is $500 I can't see why you couldn't get set-up for that. Pending on how much actual cutting you will be doing, a port-a-band, or a sawzall will get you out of a pinch. You can cut anything you want with a grinder with practice, even a perfect circle. They can be dangerous, the thin 'razor-blades' are the worst, and the reason being, as soon as you add extra force, or flex the blade, it weakens and can seperate. Believe me I work with steel for a living, I know how bad they can be, but in the same breath can be safe too. Overall, gas cutting is the way to go, and with practice cutting, you can clean up your slag with a chipping hammer

[Chills1994]

There is actually a system out there that runs off GASOLINE!

Petrogen, IIRC.

They are very slick, can cut through really thick steel or multiple layers of steel without all the hassles of oxy-acetylene, popping, etc.

If you do go the O-A route, though, be careful about laying the acetylene tank down on its side. Something about rocks, or acetone separating out in the tank when it's on its side.

Stand to the side when turning the valves open on the tanks. The regulators/gauges have been know to blow apart and hit people in the face.

Yeah, it would be nice to have all of the cutting tools:

1. Sawzall with a metal cutting blade

2. Portaband " "

3. Metabo right angle grinder with a wafer cutoff wheel

4. Oxy-acetylene torch set, with the anti-flow back valves

5. Plasmacutter, which also requires an air compressor

6. Big wheel chop saw with an abrasive cut off wheel.

If you're at a Borders book store, peruse a Home Shop Machinist magazine. Plasma-cam machines are advertised in there. Could be just the ticket for making up steel (silhouette) targets for your local ranges.

Don't wear frayed blue jeans, have a water bucket close by, and a fire extinguisher. Off course, good leather gloves, not necessarily welding gloves, and a dark tinted face shield, not just cutting goggles.

Edited June 1, 2006 by Chills1994

[John Heiter]

Right now I'm leaning more to the Oxy Acetylene route than Oxy Propane even though I have a 250lb Propane tank just taking up space. From my reading, it looks like to get the most out of an O-P rig you need a special torch/tip that costs a little more on the front end and probably in replacement/alternate tips as well.

I'm going to go see what sort of deal on tanks I can get tomorrow. Everything I hear says they are the same as gun safes, go as big as you can afford and then go one size larger. Apparently they charge the same to fill a larger tank that they do to fill a smaller one (roughly) so you're better off going big plus it's fewer trips into town to have it filled. My truck has low bed walls so I'll have to lay the tanks down to transport them but that should be no big deal. The Oxygen bottle isn't affected by position at all. The liquid Acetone in the Acetylene bottle will flow up near the valve but as long as I stand it back up for twice as long as I had it laying down (general rule of thumb) before use to allow the liquid to settle back under the gas layer, it should be fine.

I haven't ordered the torch/gauges/hoses, etc. yet but I'm probably going to go with a rig from Victor. Victor and Smith seem to be the premier lines when it comes to this stuff. Apparently the availability of replacement parts is a big concern and these two have the majority of the pro market so they're easy to get. I really like all of the safety features of the Victor kits (check valves and flashback arrestors) and I also like that most of the Victor kits come with T rated hoses (any fuel) right from the start. If I do decide to go w/ Propane later on I won't have to replace everything. As soon as I have my gas bottles, I'll know if they are male or female threaded so I'll know which torch kit to get and I'll be all set.

I know this is a lot of detail that no one really asked for but I thought I would go ahead and post the update so that maybe someone can alert me to a flaw in my logic and if not then maybe it will help someone else when they are eventually looking to do the same thing.

John

[geezer-lock]

I don't really have the funds for plasma right now so I'm looking at oxy-fuel torches but I have zero experience with them.

I spent 15 years cutting up stuff for the Santa Fe railroad. Given your lack of experience I would suggest a few things:

1. Buy your equipment from your local gas supplier.

2. Get some training!

3. Buy a good dolly.

Your supplier can help you with tool selection (handles, fittings, tips, shields and such) and he might be able to help you with the training part. You might look at the local junior college or technical schools in your area. This stuff is mega-dangerous in many ways so do yourself a favor and get some help.

The dolly should be sized properly to hold both tanks securely. It should have a chain to keep it upright (especially when the caps are off or the regulators are in place). It makes moving the tanks easier and more importantly it keeps them upright.

Lastly, a blow-back arrestor is a safety aid which cannot fully compensate for poor work practices, so get some training!

Be careful out there,

David C

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

Right now I'm leaning more to the Oxy Acetylene route than Oxy Propane even though I have a 250lb Propane tank just taking up space. From my reading, it looks like to get the most out of an O-P rig you need a special torch/tip that costs a little more on the front end and probably in replacement/alternate tips as well.

John

Just to add a little confusion, I prefer OXY/MAPP. Nice hot set up.

regards,

[Chills1994]

One other thing I thought of , John Heiter.

+1 On the heavy duty cart with chains to hold the two tanks in while your moving it around the shop.

But also look for one that has a tray on the back. That's where you store the valve covers when you're not using them. A good place to store a crescent wrench to unscrew the regulators and the hoses too. Or stuff the cutting torch end in. Red hoses are for the acetylene, they have left hand threads. No petro products, oil, etc, near the oxygen fittings.

Anyway the point I was really getting at was if you are moving the tanks any appreciable distance (or in the back of your truck) be sure to take the regulators off and cover the valves with the threaded covers.

IIRC, the Oxygen tank is filled to around 2,200 psi. Knock a valve off and you have torpedo.

I've been on jobs where ironworkers, boilermakers, pipefitters, will get on the elevator with the regulators still on.

"Ummn....errr....yeah this my stop....I'll get off here." If they want to get mangled up when/if that valve pops off while they're inside the elevator, be my guest...I just don't want to be anywhere around it when it happens.