What Is A True Ipsc "practical" Target?

[Wakal]

Everyone seems fixated on Texas Stars...

I really liked the post noting that there are two approved paper targets, poppers, and four approved plates. A TX* is just a round plate rack holding five approved plates

And for evil...TX* behind steel picket fences. A TX* behind a wall (with steel reinforcement hidden on the back side) with the bottom "arc" of the plates forming the open mouth of a painted clown... Been there, shot that.

I want two TX*, with the centers lined up. The plates on the front Star are no-shoots... Haven't seen that one yet.

But I've shot plenty of Stars, bobbers, bear traps, movers, swingers, weavers, dippers, etc, etc, ad infinium, ad nauseum, at Area matches and above. None of those are mentioned as "allowed" in the rule book. Of course, no target stand/target holder is mentioned in the rule book. Only approved targets, not what they are mounted on

Alex

Edited April 12, 2006 by Wakal

[1911user]

What's a steel picket fence?

[Flexmoney]

What's a steel picket fence?

From what I understand, it is just a prop. It is made of steel and looks like a picket fence. Targets are placed behind it, and the fence (being made of steel) is true hard cover. I'll bet there is a picture around someplace?

[JFlowers]

Evil presentation of a TX*..... SC State 2005. You knelt on the kneeling bench, the shooter's weight on the bench opened the confessional window to open revealing the TX* downrange. If you shifted your weight to chase a plate the window would shut on you. You had to have the gun at your nose cause the window was too small for gun and arms to be extended.

And yes, I loved it no matter how badly I shot that particular stage!

[Bigbadaboom]

I would just place the Tx* on a bouncing platform behind a TX containing 4 noshoots. I think that would be sufficiently crule.

Eric: Are my abbreviations correct?

[Ron Ankeny]

And for evil...TX* behind steel picket fences. A TX* behind a wall (with steel reinforcement hidden on the back side) with the bottom "arc" of the plates forming the open mouth of a painted clown... Been there, shot that.

I guess the real issue is one of stage design, flavor, and personal opinion. I think something like that would be a real hoot at a club level match if kept in the proper perspective. On the other hand, I think it would be way too hubbabubblegumish for the Nationals.

[Wakal]

Well, I don't know for Nationals...those tend to be pretty simple matches more for ease of operation if nothing else, but the stage I described worked very well for a State level championship (designed for half as many people as the Nationals). The roller coaster was pretty fun, too. Taran rode it twice

Alex

[Steve J]

What's a steel picket fence?

From what I understand, it is just a prop. It is made of steel and looks like a picket fence. Targets are placed behind it, and the fence (being made of steel) is true hard cover. I'll bet there is a picture around someplace?

It's a specialty of the Coleman Gun Club. If you've had behavioral management courses maybe you'll remember Coleman, Texas from "The Abilene Paradox" by native son Jerry Harvey? But I digress. Here's a picture of a stage from the 2005 Texas State Limited Match using the steel hard cover picket fence, the Texas Star, and lot's of "other" falling plates and poppers. Hard? Yes. Fun? Yes. Cursed? Yes. Bubble gun or impractical? Not at all.

[Flexmoney]

As Ron and Alex say...

The props (whatever they may be) have to work for the match at hand.

If you are running a one day match with 50 shooters, then you can keep a lot of "iffy" props rocking and rolling just fine...shooting the same for everybody. Running a match that is shot over the course of a 5-7 days with 300 shooters takes a lot more planning on keeping the props consistent.

And, we are playing a game, so we do really need to look at keeping it consistent for all the shooters at the match. With that in mind, however, when we start talking about practical/tactical...it's a joke to think that real life targets would be standing still all the time. Moving targets are about as practical as it gets (without having them shoot back)

Props like the Texas Star, Swingers, and Drop Turners are all targets that move, but still behave in a pattern that can be presented to each shooter in a consistent manner.

[RIIID]

Can anyone say 100 yard TX* Standards.

Rich

[DaG]

Gentlemen, before this gets out of control, the correct nomenclature is:

TX*

T* is the Tennessee Star, which is a new target designed to stir even more political unrest.

T+ is a terminal on a circuit board. If you are referring to the Texas Windmill, the correct nomenclature is TX

Aint seen me one of em Tennessee Stars yet but im uh lookin.....What they look like anyway EricW?

DaG

How Bout them Vols!!!!

[JFD]

JFlowers

Come on now! That was a wonderful stage The question is were you crazy enough to try for the mini poppers that were well behind the star? I wasted 2 rounds before giving that plan up. I ended up dropping a mag on that stage and finished up with the last round out of my barney mag.

Shot the star clean, but stunk so bad on the rest of the stage I might have left a permanent bad odor in that bay

I still shot it better than my own stage (#7).

[JFlowers]

JFD,

You must have been on the same plan I was. I cleaned the Star, tried for the poppers, and then the stage went downhill from there. I was shooting Friday in the rain and the clamshells in the corners were wet and very very slow to rise.

I worked the Standards stage up by the chrono during that match.

[Hank Ellis]

Gentlemen;

I'm no IPSC god and will never see a GM card. I'm just a middle C class (50.07%) shooter who is intrigied by the game and wants to do the best to my ability. If I improve ... good. If I don't ... OK. If I digress ... I'll try to regain my previous position. I come to shoot.

The stage BayouPirate describes is in the attached file to this post.

If there ever was a 'carnival' stage, this was it. I hated it. I brought 8, 10 round mags to the line. I had never seen much less shot at a Texas star. 80 rounds. I went back with only 1 mag that I didn't use. I stood there stuffing mag after mag trying hit those stupid swinging plates. After the 5th or 6th mag, the time didn't matter. I just wanted to hit the target and move to the next one. If I ran out of ammo. So be it.

If anyone cares, here's the results from that stage:

Place Last Name First Name No. Class Division Points Penalties Time Hit Factor Stage Pts Stage %

12 Ellis Hank 65 C Limited 10 132 0 73.42 1.7979 40.181 28.70%

And what's sad is that I beat out two people. One a damn good friend of mine who only came under me because he got two penalties somewhere.

When I got back to the hotel that night I seriously considered selling my gear and quitting IPSC. This stage and others that were geared toward open guns at Area 4 really hammered this middle aged iron sight single stack shooter.

Is this where we want to go? If so I need to know now so I can get my trap and skeet guns going.

[Chuck D]

"I'm no IPSC god and will never see a GM card. I'm just a middle C class (50.07%) shooter who is intrigied by the game and wants to do the best to my ability. If I improve ... good. If I don't ... OK. If I digress ... I'll try to regain my previous position. I come to shoot."

As are the majority of USPSA members I'd dare say. The B/C/D class shooters are the backbone of this organization.

"The stage BayouPirate describes is in the attached file to this post.

If there ever was a 'carnival' stage, this was it. I hated it. I brought 8, 10 round mags to the line. I had never seen much less shot at a Texas star. 80 rounds. I went back with only 1 mag that I didn't use. I stood there stuffing mag after mag trying hit those stupid swinging plates. After the 5th or 6th mag, the time didn't matter. I just wanted to hit the target and move to the next one. If I ran out of ammo. So be it."

We've ALL had stages like this...

"When I got back to the hotel that night I seriously considered selling my gear and quitting IPSC. This stage and others that were geared toward open guns at Area 4 really hammered this middle aged iron sight single stack shooter."

Nothing turns people off more than stage design that favors one shooting style or equipment choice over another. Kind of like having a ton of low ports in a stage and your over 6'2'' tall.

"Is this where we want to go? If so I need to know now so I can get my trap and skeet guns going."

I once thought NO on this question but seriously...I'm no longer certain. If "carnival" props are the answer to innovative and challenging course design...see you on the trap field.

Edited April 13, 2006 by Chuck D

[Vlad]

Jeez .. I like the TX* just fine but that stage is insane. In my opinion, you might build a stage like that at "fun" match, or as a side match at some other event, but everyone shooting 10 round mags would be screwed.

[Bigbadaboom]

I will say that stage is not what I'm referring to when I state that I believe we should allow Tx*'s, Windmills etc. in matches. I believe it should present a shooting challenge not a puishment. One such target assembly placed in a couple of stages, not one stage containing 6 such target assemblies. That was a bad idea and whoever designed it only had "Punish the Shooters" on their mind.

Hank, That stage was designed by a C-class shooter. How did Terry Ashton do on it? OH! He didn't shoot the match. Figures.

Edited April 13, 2006 by Bigbadaboom

[Ron Ankeny]

Bubble gun or impractical? Not at all.

Of course, that's an opinion, which I am sure is shared by many. Likewise, there are many who would disagree.

This stage and others that were geared toward open guns at Area 4 really hammered this middle aged iron sight single stack shooter. Is this where we want to go? If so I need to know now so I can get my trap and skeet guns going.

You are not alone and that's a shame. Other than "atmosphere", the overall idea behind the no bubblegum, anti-carnival approach to course design is the notion of attracting and retaining shooters through quality course design that is neither too easy, nor overly punitive.

Edited April 13, 2006 by Ron Ankeny

[ima45dv8]

I would only consider a stage like that punishing if everyone else didn't have to shoot it, too. As I've said before, as long as we all have to shoot the same courses of fire using the same procedures and the same rules, it's fair enough for me.

LAMR!

[Bigbadaboom]

I would only consider a stage like that punishing if everyone else didn't have to shoot it, too. As I've said before, as long as we all have to shoot the same courses of fire using the same procedures and the same rules, it's fair enough for me.

LAMR!

Everyone shooting it only makes it mass punishment. Ever shoot revolver?

[ima45dv8]

Never shot revolver in an IPSC match, but I admire and respect those folks that do (even if they are NUTS!).

[Steve J]

Deleted: more arguments in favor.

I'm C class working towards B. I shoot 1911 SS Division. I like the stage from Area 4. I'd like to shoot it with 8-rounders to see if I can finish it with just four.

But that's just MHO. I love stages like this.

Edited April 15, 2006 by Steve J

[Bigbadaboom]

Edit: Deleted because Steve J deleted the thread I was quoting.

Edited April 13, 2006 by Bigbadaboom

[JFD]

I love stages like the Area 4 stage mentioned.

As long as my head is screwed on fairly straight, these stages give me a great chance to gain some major ground over those shooters not prepared for the challenge.

Not that I consider it good stage design, but I still love the opportunity those stages offer.

[geezer-lock]

Willie would love this:

Here we go again.

Round ‘n round we go again.

Same ol’ things we see again

Here we go again.

We’re seeing stars again

Round ‘n round we go again

Same ol’ things we see again

Here we go again.

Here we go again.

David C

Music:

On The Road Again

(W. Nelson) S2 36752/53 rel: Aug. 1980 Soundtrack Honeysuckle Rose Rec.

Original lyrics:

(D. Cross) © April, 2006, Déjà vu records.

Any resemblance to the real thing is purely intentional.

Edited April 16, 2006 by geezer-lock