dirtypool40 Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 Howdy and welcome. Run into any TEF guys lately? Any Hillbilly Ninjas? Concealed Carry Dogmatics? (there's a new one!). How 'bout gunstore commandos? Did they impart any pearls of wisdom? And Why wouldn't they??? Here's a quicky to start off. Remember back in the day when all the gun rags spouted something to the effect that you could "carry anything you want so long as the first number is a 4 or a 1"? Meaning .41ae (remember that?) or 10mm was the minimum a real TEF guy would lower himself to carry. I was at a Tactical (sort of) course a few months back. The Dogmatics were out in force, full IDPA race rigs, all glocks, all kydex, cut down vests, the works. I showed up with a compact 1911 in an IWB concealed by my golf shirt, like I REALLY carry every day. It was a .40 S&W. The most popular LEO and carry cartridge in the country. Uh oh.... I actually got lectured from guys who can only aspire to make "D" class someday on how .40 is a GAME ONLY CATRIDGE with no real martial use!!!! Here's the bite, and I swear I am not making this up; these guys were shooting 9mm, G34s!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted January 27, 2003 Author Share Posted January 27, 2003 One that happened to me last week in Wichita: I was out there for some flight training, and while chatting with my instructor I learned he had been a recreational shooter. Trying to always be a recruiter / ambassador I mentioned that I enjoyed "action shooting" and explained what that was. GSSF, IDPA, Pins, USPSA, the whole gammut. Man!! He was hooked from the get go. So much so that he came back with a list of questions the next day, and asked if I would reccommend a first gun that would help him avoid spending months and millions getting the right equipment. I said I'd love to help, and after further discussion we ended up at a local gunshop (Yes, we finished the lesson first). They had a weekly IDPA match, brochures for both IDPA and USPSA (and DCM). I was impressed. Now I love my S_I but this was a newby so I reccommended either a G35 or a P-16. They had both, we're having a blast "trying them on" with the "help" of the local gunstore commando, aka HillBilly Ninja. This guy looks like FARVA from "Super Troopers". He's working on getting up into Sharpshooter class by the end of 2005... (OK, so I've made a quick funny not so quick, but stay with me...) Anyway, the GLock was ok, but as soon as I reccommend a 1911, I'm a gamer. But when I started talking about safety and gunhandling he really lit up. TEF guy proceeds to explain how EVEN IDPA has some gamey rules on gunhandling and goes on to show us how to "press check", like he's seen Steven Seagal do, no doubt. This guy swept everything up to his wrist!!! I am grimnacing and flinching throughout the display, when he tops it off with "Yeah, they don't like that kind of stuff at them matches, but then again......I'M A REAL WORLD OPERATOR". I almost doubled over trying to keep from laughing at the jelly donought letting us in on how tuff he really was.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 This is no different than when I started shooting IPSC in '78. There were two groups of guys then also; gamers and martial artists. same groups now shoot in IDPA. The gamers are old IPSC shooters who just want to come out and kick butt, to hell with any FTDR rule, and then you have the martial artists who realy believe that IDPA is serious pistol training for the shooter who wants to become tactical when he carries in the real world. they are usually the ones who want to paint their face green and hide behind a bush while waiting for a gunfight to break out somewhere. They do not undestand that both IPSC and IDPA are games and have nothing to do with real world gunfights and are about as far away from serious pistol training as is taking a go cart for a spin around some amusement track in an attempt to learn how to drive NASCAR. There are TEF guys everywhere. Just ignore them and laugh when you get back to your car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaughn leayme Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 I don't get bothered too much by them, they usually gravitate towards my lady friend and try to instruct her in the finer points of shooting and tactics and weapon selection. Quotable quotes: Why don't you get a real gun shooting a real selfdefense cartridge, not that puny 9mm. Do you need help loading your pistol..... Why aren't you a sweet thing, are you meeting your husband (etc) here? or dropping off his gear? You don't need to use the sights, just point it at the target like this..... You really should look at these kydex holster, quick as snot and you don't need to keep them oiled......... You know if you keep your thumb on the safety you will shoot better........ I really should have her posting this, but I don't know if you have enough band width to handle it You find them everywhere and it is hoped after you shoot circles around them on the range or cof, that they will go and inflict themselves on someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 You find them everywhere and it is hoped after you shoot circles around them on the range or cof, that they will go and inflict themselves on someone else. Ummm, nope. They don't go away. Gawd forbid ya shoot better than them, then they just hang around giving you MORE stupid tips. And heaven help any grrl that can out shoot them. OHMYGAWD they get stupider!!!! You really should have your wife tell her side. I've got some GREAT ones to share, someday! (I'm supposed to be writing a paper right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 yeah...the women get more crap than most. I think I posted this before... It got to a point with my girlfriend that she was going to have a shirt made up with this on the back, so she could turn and let them read it: "If your name isn't Brian Enos or Rob Leatham...shut the he!! up!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Hmmmm....now that might be a real seller there Flex! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 1. Real world operator...that's hilarious. I can almost picture the guy now. If I ever get tired of being of being "hank" I wanna be called Real world operator! 2. Girls always shooter better than guys as beginners. I've taken 10 or so newbies to the range (mostly employees and their spouses/sig. others and the girls always do better. the reason? NO EGO, and they listen and execute fundamentals when properly instructed. 3. Flex, I hope I'm not guilty w/ Jen...I do remember "helping" with grip tape talk before I knew you guys at a roundtown steel match. She's just so bright and friendly... 4. If something has to be called "tactical", it ain't. Ever see a Ferrari with a big "sport" sticker on the side? Fake World Gamer, SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thompson Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Quote: from shaughn leayme on 11:04 pm on Jan. 27, 2003 I don't get bothered too much by them, they usually gravitate towards my lady friend and try to instruct her in the finer points of shooting and tactics and weapon selection. Quotable quotes: Why don't you get a real gun shooting a real selfdefense cartridge, not that puny 9mm. Do you need help loading your pistol..... Why aren't you a sweet thing, are you meeting your husband (etc) here? or dropping off his gear? You don't need to use the sights, just point it at the target like this..... This is why my wife dosen't shoot IPSC or IDPA anymore. (Edited by John Thompson at 10:37 am on Jan. 28, 2003) (Edited by John Thompson at 10:38 am on Jan. 28, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 It would all be funnier if TEF's weren't driving people away from the sport. I damn near quit altogether after I felt like I just couldn't escape the bastards. So, I guess this must be what it feels like to be a non-Homical/Suicidal Muslim today. Sigh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Steve, "Fake World Gamer"..."Ferrari with a big "sport" sticker on the side" That's good stuff. I think you are safe with any grip tape conversations that you might have had. I don't recall hearing about it. (The litmus test being the drive home from the range...and what topics come up.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted January 28, 2003 Author Share Posted January 28, 2003 But they do run people off!!! When ALL I SHOT WAS IDPA I dragged everyone I could find out. Three or four guys from the police academy, two guys from work, both my brothers, my dad, my roomate. The TEF guys ran them ALL Off but my roomate, and that's only because the IDPA match was a chance to get away from the shrew he was attached to for an afternoon. Great job being ambassadors guys. Did you 360 threat scan before you ran the rookie off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted January 28, 2003 Author Share Posted January 28, 2003 Doubled over laughing....... I can see the despondant looks on faces supposed to be scowling, the lips quivering on mouths that should be ready to yell verbal commands, the tears welling up in the eyes that are supposed to be threat scanning, tears that drip on "approved concealment garmets", soaking through to plastic that shall never rust..... Ken? Walt? Bill? PLEASE.....say it ain't so!!!! TELL ME I'M STILL TOUGH!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcginnes Posted January 29, 2003 Share Posted January 29, 2003 Favorite Gun-store Commando: (When Danny Rolling was active in Gainesville) Telling a 20ish year old woman to get a 12 gauge because, "If you hear a noise in the house, you can stick the gun around the corner and fire without exposing yourself." Least favorite TEF guy (ERKBA guy?) told me hunters who supported the use of non-toxic shot were anti-gun. Then told me that if I didn't always vote Republican, I was anti-gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted January 29, 2003 Author Share Posted January 29, 2003 I like the name of your group. Are there more than one of you??? God I hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 I think there are a LOT of people in that "group"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 "You really should look at these kydex holster, quick as snot and you don't need to keep them oiled......... You know if you keep your thumb on the safety you will shoot better........" The thing is....both of those are true. Though I don't think I'd be giving the advice to someone who hadn't asked for it. Or oiling a leather holster for that matter. (Edited by Duane Thomas at 11:31 pm on Jan. 29, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 "2. Girls always shooter better than guys as beginners. I've taken 10 or so newbies to the range (mostly employees and their spouses/sig. others and the girls always do better. the reason? NO EGO, and they listen and execute fundamentals when properly instructed" My experience has been that men and women are equally good students. But then I'm doing it for money, and I think that when people are going to someone they've paid for instruction, they come in already having made the decision to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 "Ummm, nope. They don't go away. Gawd forbid ya shoot better than them, then they just hang around giving you MORE stupid tips. And heaven help any grrl that can out shoot them." Sometimes they do go away. I remember one time, years ago, I was out at the range with my girlfriend. I had to go somewhere and do something, I left her behind to keep shooting. When I came back a half hour later, she told me, "Duane, don't ever leave me here alone again. As soon as you left, these two fat old men came over. One of them had his gun in a cowboy rig slung over on his left hip, and he looked at my custom Kramer holster for the SIG and said, 'Y'know little lady, you should get yourself a crossdraw holster.' I just kept shooting, and he said, 'Hey, you're pretty good. Is that a 9mm?' And I said, 'No, it's a .45.' And then he just got this strange look on his face, and they went away and didn't talk to me anymore." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaughn leayme Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Kydex is fast, no doubt about it. Just not her cup of tea and yes she has tried them. Her wants are simple, quality leather, lined, thumbreak and comfortable. Oil a holster.........(shudder) never. Saddle soap or a quality leather preserver. Thumb on the safety, she has tried it, but with her small hands, she doesn't feel confident in her ability to be in full control of her weapon versus her normal tucked thumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 Yeah, when I teach newbies the grip, I teach the thumb-over-thumb even though I use the thumb on top of the safety, myself. There's no doubt in my mind the "straight thumbs" is a better technique - if the shooter can execute it. I just found so many people who couldn't that I quit teaching it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joenuclear Posted January 30, 2003 Share Posted January 30, 2003 My friend of 30+ years is a high school basketball coach who feels girls are easier to coach than boys. He thinks they just have a better BS detector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted January 31, 2003 Author Share Posted January 31, 2003 I have no credentials as a firearms instructor, but in informal recruiting (something we should all do for all the shooting sports) I have found that girls seem to have fewer preconceived ideas of how to look tough when shooting ala Bruce Willis. That wrong foot forward, cross eye dominant, weaver crap makes it hard to get anything on paper. (OK, I admit it; they DO look tough) As a result (IMO) it is easier to teach girls the basics of slow fire marksmanship. Hell, I usually end up embarrassed that they can shoot better groups than I can! Lastly, they may not be better detectors of it, but when it comes to being taught by this aspiring IPSC shooter, they damn sure have less BS cluttering up their brain while they try to shoot. Like Dave Dawson used to say when you were overthinking a stage: "how are you holding your mouth?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcginnes Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 [massive thread drift] Quote: from dirtypool40 on 2:52 pm on Jan. 29, 2003 I like the name of your group. Are there more than one of you??? God I hope so. We have about two dozen official members. I did some calculations using survey data a while back and figured there are about 8 million 'Gun toting liberals.' (People who describe themselves as 'liberal' to 'extreamly liberal' and own a handgun.) I keep thinking I should write a 'Hate' thing about people who assume 'all liberals are anti-gun and all gun owners are conservative.' As that lie is repeated, it is becoming true. (Edited by mcginnes at 2:59 pm on Feb. 2, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Our local Congressional Representative, Peter DeFazio (D), (Springfield, OR) shoots .45.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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