Airports

[blackdragon]

Here is one for you guys!!!

Had a show in South Carolina. Arrived at the airport to leave. Declared that I had Firearms. The young lady says" Are they unloaded?" I reply, "yes". She then says to me" I need to check them to make sure" . I reply " There are 15 handguns in the case!" She says" I still need to take them out and make sure they are unloaded!" . I say"NOOOOO!" She looks at me and says "I will get a TSA officer" I reply" Knock your self out!, You are not going to take the pistols out of my case!" The TSA officer comes over Says" Are they unloaded? OK". Takes my case. Now, I'm getting older and I don't have a lot of patience left. The visual that I had goes something like this..... She picks up the first pistol covers every one standing in line! Doesn't have the first clue on what she is doing! I have to take the pistol and show her it is unloaded..... I have a gun in my hand at an airport, knowing my luck an air marshal walks out of Chilies and....I'm a dead man!!. What do you guys think?

Ivan

[Loves2Shoot]

Ivan, you big white guy, you sure look like a terrorist to me What a pain in the @ss.

[Caspian_45]

Good call. Make'm work for their money.

[Rob Boudrie]

Ivan - that reminds me of watching a Canadian customs officer in the Toronto airport point a 1911 w/red dot scope at the other customs agents while yelling out "hey, look at this".

[blackdragon]

Monkeys!!!!

Ivan

[MasterLefty]

I have always been the one to show the ticket counter that my gun is unloaded.

Reminds me of a story "uncle" Dave told me. Have you seen the alum cases that he uses for the STI display guns, there are about seven in each case and he travels with 5 or 6. Dave told me that he removes each pistol, sticks its straight up in the arm, for all to see, and demonstrates that it is unloaded. (Great advertising). I don't know if he still does this post 9/11.

On the fun side, it's always fun when they say what a pretty gun.

Kenny

[chuckbradley]

Here is one for you guys!!!

Had a show in South Carolina. Arrived at the airport to leave. Declared that I had Firearms. The young lady says" Are they unloaded?" I reply, "yes". She then says to me" I need to check them to make sure" . I reply " There are 15 handguns in the case!" She says" I still need to take them out and make sure they are unloaded!" . I say"NOOOOO!" She looks at me and says "I will get a TSA officer" I reply" Knock your self out!, You are not going to take the pistols out of my case!" The TSA officer comes over Says" Are they unloaded? OK". Takes my case. Now, I'm getting older and I don't have a lot of patience left. The visual that I had goes something like this..... She picks up the first pistol covers every one standing in line! Doesn't have the first clue on what she is doing! I have to take the pistol and show her it is unloaded..... I have a gun in my hand at an airport, knowing my luck an air marshal walks out of Chilies and....I'm a dead man!!. What do you guys think?

Ivan

Excuse me I am dense at times. Did she inspect all the firearms after TSA came over or was that what you invisioned happening if she had inspected them all? It used to be indivisual airline policy as to wheter they inspect them or not. I know for a fact Deltas policy is that they ask you, you sign the declaration and it goes in the case with the guns. They are not to inspect them because that puts the liability back on them when their agents are not trained to be qualified to declare a firearm unloaded. Doesnt mean I havent had in individual agent try. I use to fight them and tell them to read their manual but any more I just let them look and just as you said show them how to tell its unloaded. I let one agent do it herself and when she was done making sure there wasnt a mag in it I asked her if she wanted to check the chamber to make sure it was empty. I then showed her how to do that.

I flew to phoenix last weekend and didnt have a problem with the airline but the TSA guy gave me a hard time over my briefcase not being secure enough. I said" if they want to steal it a better lock or case wont stop em" I then reminded him that the regs said it just had to be in a hardcase that locked or a hard sided suitcase that locked.

When we landed at the connecting airport and got off the plane there was my briefcase, 10 ft from me on the tarmac. Why do we have all this security? I was told the real probelm is when the baggage crew mistakes it for a checked carry on and gives it back to the passenger in the sterile zone. But I am sure me removing my shoes did allot to increase security.

[MBaneACP]

Depends on the sirline. United, for instance, doesn't want their people to check whether the gun is unloaded, because it transfers liability from me to them.

My favorite story is out of the Media Seminars, when I checked in with a whole bunch of guns in a couple of cases. The woman said, "Show me they're unloaded," so I picked up the first piece and, pointing in a safe direction, racked the slide and showed her an empty chamber. She nearly had a stroke. "For God's sake, man!" she virtually shouted. "Be discrete!"

"Ma'am," I replied very loudly, "I have enough guns in these cases to take over a small South American nation. How would you suggest I be discrete?"

She said close the cases and get on the plane...

Michael B

[AlamoShooter]

I don't like travleing with the match stuff mostly becuse of replacment cost. But when we used to fly more than drive I would remove the slides off the race guns and the shotgun was always in two pices.

Same question from the counter whe they looked a pices of guns,, are they loaded?

Edited January 13, 2006 by AlamoShooter

[SRT Driver]

And what did TSA do with them?

[blackdragon]

No she did not touch them!!!! The TSA guy took the case and put it on the ground behind the desk! I was just running through my mind what would happen should I have to take the pistol from her. I had two red tags on top of the guns in the case plus our FFL.

Ivan

[bgary]

My favorite [personal] story is from a United counter in Denver. Sweet Young Thing behind the counter says that she needs to see the gun. "Are you sure? I've signed the declaration stating that it is unloaded". No, she needs to see the gun. So I unlock the case and open it towards her. She says "you need to show me it is unloaded." I say "are you sure?" Yes. So I take the gun out of the case and hold the slide open.

She reaches below the counter, grabs her microphone, and - OVER THE PA - says "can I please have a supervisor to station 3 to verify that this gun is unloaded?".

It got *really* quiet in the terminal.

My favorite all-time story comes from a well-known pro shooter who says he went to the counter and declared a gun in his bag. The counter person picked up the phone and said "can you come help me? There's a man with a gun at my counter."

He says he had just enough time to step back about 6 feet from his bag get his hands in plain sight before the armed security folks came running around the corner.

Bruce

[blackdragon]

Now a days that could be dangerous!!!! Maybe I'm over reacting, But I think is is reaaaaaly stupid to ask an employee to handle a firearm with 30 seconds of training!!!

Ivan

PS

I just came from a trade show where a vender shot the vender across from him!!! ( In The leg, She is still alive)

Ivan

Edited January 14, 2006 by blackdragon

[Loves2Shoot]

Did she shoot back?

[blackdragon]

Loves2shoot,

Nope she just screamed!

Ivan

PS I'm serious, This did happen!

I

[shred]

Once in Florida they asked us if we wanted to take the guns onboard with us. We politely declined.

The biggest surprise to me was a Southwest counter lady that wanted to know all about the then-new Keltec .32 that I was flying with. I think she probably bought one the next day.

Most other places it's the same old boring 'I have firearms to declare. Are they unloaded? Yes. Can I see? See, there's a cable right through them. Ok, sign this tag." routine now.

Oh yeah, the one guy that spoke Spanish on the first plane out of Ecuador after the World Shoot signed out all the guns on the US list..

[Crusher]

Once in Florida they asked us if we wanted to take the guns onboard with us. We politely declined.

Happened to me too in Savhana and Jacksonville (pre 9/11) on two seperate occasions. Both times I declined as the ticket agent was reaching for paper work to carry aboard the plane.

It's all "smoke & mirrors" and the general public feels "safe" now because we have "trained monkeys" securing us from harm every time we step aboard a commercial aircraft.

Who is securing us from the "trained monkeys"?

[n2ipsc]

Ivan - that reminds me of watching a Canadian customs officer in the Toronto airport point a 1911 w/red dot scope at the other customs agents while yelling out "hey, look at this".

I had precisely the same thing happen in the customs hall at Gatwick airport in England when I went to the World Shoot in 1993 ("Blimey! What's this, then?!," waving the Limcat around and sighting through the Tasco). Got a lot of unwanted attention in very short order...

[Mistral404]

I travel quite a lot with firearms.

It is my understanding that:

1. You must declare it

2. It must be unloaded and ammo in a separate case

3. It is the airlines responsibility to "verify" that it is unloaded.

Verify = at Southwest, rack the slide and show clear--the best trained group of the bunch; United, almost worthless in the New Orleans airport--they do not care to see it is empty.

American, not bad but not as good as Southwest.

TSA--huge variations between airports--the TSA in NH did not want the tag in the locked case but in the luggage, ST Louis --TSA did the verify process. Phoenix--TSA is very inconsistent, I twice had them open the luggage and the gun case--I think they were trainiing newbies. Most of the time TSA in Phoenix just passes the luggage through.

[shred]

Ammo is no longer required by the TSA to be in a separate case. There's some good stuff on their web site that I don't have the link handy for, but it's worth printing out and bringing with you, as well as the airline regulations.

[blackdragon]

Just got back from Louisville KY, US Air, No Trouble. Flying out the did not even have me sign the form.

Ivan

[blackdragon]

Just returned from Reno, Southwest. Yep they looked at every single pistol! and I had to lock my case! 1st airline to make me do it! ( when I got to Reno all the locks were gone! ) When I flew back had to get new locks. $30.00 in locks!

Ivan

[chuckbradley]

Just returned from Reno, Southwest. Yep they looked at every single pistol! and I had to lock my case! 1st airline to make me do it! ( when I got to Reno all the locks were gone! ) When I flew back had to get new locks. $30.00 in locks!

Ivan

The regs say they have to be locked. They are supposed to tag them saying they were inspected and to remain locked. I would have raised some stink over that. You can file a complaint against TSA.

[shred]

Yeah, also add a big "Federal Law Requires This Case To Remain Locked" sticker on the outside too. I add my cell phone number as well so they can call me if they need to get in.

[DMS42]

Long story. I had boarded an airplane in Denver on my way from Spokane to the All Army Championships at Ft. Benning. An airline employee came aboard just after all had been seated, knelt down next to me asked if I was Dennis. He then said that there was a problem and to come with him. So I deplaned and went to the passenger boarding area where a woman met me. She stated that the reason I was pulled off the plane was because my pistol box had exposed ammo on the outside of the box and also because there was no Red Tag in the box. She also explained to me that I was in deep trouble and she had called the police. I showed her my government orders which allowed me to carry weapons, but no go.

The police arrived and talked to me some more about exposed ammo. They then looked at the pistol box and couldn't see any exposed ammo. So they said to take the box elsewhere to inspect it as we were drawing a lot of interest. The baggage handler took the pistol box and headed outside. One of the cops came over to me on the way outside, put his arm around me and said "This woman is incredable stupid." Up to that time I had thought that I was in deep doodoo and when he reached out to put his arm on my shoulder I had visions of hand cuffs.

Outside the police said to open the box. Both locks on the box had already been unlocked by someone prior to me trying to unlock the box. My pistols and all gear had foam padding around them so that they wouldn't rattle around. The .22 ammo was in factory boxes and had been padded with foam.

The police looked at everything then wanted to check the pistols to make sure there were unloaded. Then they asked why all the padding. I explained that the box sometimes came off the unloading ramp upside down and I didn't want my sights all screwed up again. They asked again about the red tag. I explained that I had filled one out and placed it inside the box in Spokane. I also told them that I had locked both locks after putting the red tag inside. Two keys will open almost any of the Pachmyer or Gun Ho pistol boxes. They then told the woman that everything look good and no loose ammo anywhere. She then said that the loose ammo must have fallen off someplace on the flight line. One cop said "Yah, right. Have him fill out a new red tag and get him on the next plane."

He then turned to me as the woman left and said that they had had several calls from her about passengers and firearms and that none had proved to be anything worth the trouble. He said that she had stated in the past the she didn't like guns and the incident of the baggage handler that got shot by a loaded rifle he was putting on the plane had set her off.

So I filled out a new red tag, put it in the box and locked it and got on the next plane to Columbus, GA. After that I bought a length of chain and a good padlock. For awhile I wrapped the box with the chain and locked it. Then on one of my last trips to the National Guard Championships I had two of the teams pistol boxes stolen at Dallas/Ft. Worth and one of them was mine. The thieves got two pistol boxes, two 20X spotting scopes, 14 .45 magazines, 2 sets of cleaning gear and two GI .45 pistols. The other box belonged to the NCOIC of the ANG base Security Police and he was not happy and because even less happy the more he tried to find out why when we got to Little Rock with no baggage we were told that there was 14 pieces of luggage that would be put on the next plane and only 12 arrived and no one would believe that we had been told 14 or even any number. Both pistol boxes in this case had been put inside of cardboard boxes. But any baggage person knows a pistol box when he sees one, especially if the cardboard box still has the Pachmyer logo on it.