2025 PST Changes

[shred]

29 minutes ago, Gregg K said:

I'm liking this idea.

 

Nowhere near here shoots all 8 stages and SCSA refuses to allow scaled targets (even 25-for-35 yarders) so you could easily end up with a lot of people classified too low.  If there's one thing that annoys people more than paper GMs, it's sandbaggers.

 

[Squirrel45]

33 minutes ago, shred said:

Nowhere near here shoots all 8 stages and SCSA refuses to allow scaled targets (even 25-for-35 yarders) so you could easily end up with a lot of people classified too low.  If there's one thing that annoys people more than paper GMs, it's sandbaggers.

 

Haha yup  

[Gregg K]

2 hours ago, shred said:

Nowhere near here shoots all 8 stages and SCSA refuses to allow scaled targets (even 25-for-35 yarders) so you could easily end up with a lot of people classified too low.  If there's one thing that annoys people more than paper GMs, it's sandbaggers.

 

San Antonio is near to Austin.

We do get some folks that come down to shoot OL and Speed Option. Once they mess up and shoot these stages they are stuck with getting better at them to get their GM. If they are classed too low because they rarely shoot the 35yd stages, they will get crushed at a higher tiered match where they must be able to deliver on these 2 stages.

[shred]

Plenty of people aren't going to drive an hour and a half just to shoot those two stages, let alone further. They'll stay in M and sandbag away. 

 

Before A4 in mid-December last year, the last time I shot (even in practice) Speed Option or Outer Limits was 2021 at that A4 (2nd Open behind Grant K AFAIK).  Shot my best Open time ever on SO in Dec.  Outer Limits was 0.1 second off after two and a half years, so maybe those skills don't deteriorate as much as expected.

 

 

[GKB]

22 hours ago, AR_James said:

 

If it went this route, also add in that GM has to be earned at a Tier 2 or higher level match.  Typically more consistent stage set up and more consistent ROs.  It would also encourage folks to support higher level matches.  

 

Some people would have to travel to another country to find a L2 or higher match. 

 

I doubt every US State even has a L2 match.

[AR_James]

7 hours ago, GKB said:

 

Some people would have to travel to another country to find a L2 or higher match. 

 

I doubt every US State even has a L2 match.

 

Country or County?

 

Either way I agree folks would have to travel, and I am in one of those states that does not currently have a Tier 2 or higher level match to attend.  In fact, this was the first year since I have been participating that all eight "Areas" had a match.  

 

Tangent: interesting how we have Area matches without having Area's.   

 

I traveled four hours one way to attend my first official Steel Challenge match just to get a classification. And since then, I routinely travel two hours one way just to be able to shoot Tier 1 matches.  So, I do not see requiring a little travel to earn the GM title as much of an issue.  Regardless, I seriously doubt the powers in charge would even consider it.  But, take a look at any of the threads here on Enos where lots of folks/clubs do not paint between shooters at Tier 1 matches.  If they are not following that rule, what other rules are they choosing to ignore?  Forget to turn your safety off or chamber a round on the first string...no worries it's just a local, I'll restart you.  Malfunction during the middle of a string...no worries it's just a local I'll give you a do over.  Dispute a miss call when you do not paint between shooters... no worries, benefit of the doubt goes to the shooter.  You do not see this as much at Tier 2 and higher level matches.

 

[shred]

Isn't the whole point of a classification system to compare yourself to other shooters nationally, without needing to go shoot major matches? 

 

[Hoops]

1 hour ago, shred said:

Isn't the whole point of a classification system to compare yourself to other shooters nationally, without needing to go shoot major matches? 

 

I agree.  The more I dig into the math and data from @GKB, I’m convinced that PST’s based on 200 people at the WSSC is too narrow.  At a minimum, I would suggest merging all 8 area matches, decide on a proper formula and develop PST’s.  Would this not be a reasonable basis?

[Squirrel45]

1 hour ago, Hoops said:

I agree.  The more I dig into the math and data from @GKB, I’m convinced that PST’s based on 200 people at the WSSC is too narrow.  At a minimum, I would suggest merging all 8 area matches, decide on a proper formula and develop PST’s.  Would this not be a reasonable basis?

This has been.my thought on this the whole time. Why would you take such a narrow sample size that impacts thousands. Incorporating area matches into generating this number would be a great addition.

[shred]

Eh... assuming the Area match is well enough attended.  A4 in December was a bit light, seeing as how I won Open there   IDK how the spring match went.

 

 

[Hoops]

15 minutes ago, shred said:

Eh... assuming the Area match is well enough attended.  A4 in December was a bit light, seeing as how I won Open there   IDK how the spring match went.

 

 

That’s why I suggested using all 8 or however many shot in a calendar year.  Larger data points.

[Ontos]

On 8/13/2024 at 11:21 AM, ZackJones said:

It's not like we weren't transparent already but one thing I am planning to do is get the process added to the rules. That way it's there for everyone to read. 

That sounds like a great idea. I like it. 
 

Thank you for handling this in what seems like a conscientious way. 

[Darqusoull13]

On 8/16/2024 at 2:41 PM, shred said:

Eh... assuming the Area match is well enough attended.  A4 in December was a bit light, seeing as how I won Open there   IDK how the spring match went.

 

 

The once and future King. Congrats!