S2 vs Tanfoglio

[MatroskinT]

Decided to get a backup to my Shadow 2 Carry Optic that would be the same but a bit different.

What you guys think of Tanfoglio limited Pro or Stock Master in small frame ( for cz mags compatibility) ? Was thinking that I could put magwell and also run it 3gun / Limited Optics. For the background the only mods I had on S2 are reach reduction kit, lighter springs and lock grips. 

And yes another S2 is an option but I like chrome finish on Tanfos.

[SV650Squid]

I shoot 2 identical S2's.

 

Same optic, same trigger, same springs, etc.

 

It's more predictable, and I can have a primary dryfire and primary match gun.

[shred]

I think another S2OR will likely be cheaper and more consistent.

 

I like the grip of the large frame Tanfos, but race-ready-wise, they are a step behind and they've gotten expensive lately.

 

[HesedTech]

6 hours ago, MatroskinT said:

And yes another S2 is an option but I like chrome finish on Tanfos.

I have both.

 

A TF is NOT a backup gun for a competitor shooting a Shadow 2. The grip angle and height of dot is enough different to slow you down.  Plus holster is different.

 

If you want a backup, buy the identical gun and setup.

Edited April 7 by HesedTech

[MatroskinT]

Thank you for the feedback!!!

[JonasAberg]

I agree with the above; while a Tanfo is similar, it's different enough. Sure, it's better than nothing if something breaks but there will be differences. 

Still, nothing wrong with getting another gun if that's what you want

 

[MatroskinT]

I feel like sometimes we just _want_ next shiny toy regardless of pragmatic arguments.

If the grip and grip angle are close enough to the point it doesn't require re-train the draw - please confirm this point, I feel confident enough that it will work in any situation. I'm not planning to participate in any Level 3 matches anytime soon, just local USPSA, Knopckdown and 3-Gun competitions.

The real concern I have are the early reports on tanfoglio's reliability and parts availability - reliability problems I assume were fixed by now, and with IFG stepping in I see parts are somewhat available.

[HesedTech]

3 hours ago, MatroskinT said:

If the grip and grip angle are close enough to the point it doesn't require re-train the draw - please confirm this point, I feel confident enough that it will work in any situation. I'm not planning to participate in any Level 3 matches anytime soon, just local USPSA, Knopckdown and 3-Gun competitions.

The real concern I have are the early reports on tanfoglio's reliability and parts availability - reliability problems I assume were fixed by now, and with IFG stepping in I see parts are somewhat available.

Okay here are the differences (SF TF - CZ S2)

1. Mags the same, no problems.

2. Mag pouches same.

3. Holster different. Depending on which is your primary gun the holster will either be tight or loose. 

4. Make sure ammo chronos within PF.

5. Grip and sight angles slightly different.

6. TF Parts easy to get in the USA through Patriot Defense.

7. CZ Shadow 2 has a far better DA draw than TF.

8. Trigger angles similar if you get the CGW RDR kit trigger and the TF Extreme DA/SA trigger. 

9. Draw is similar.

 

Remember this is a hobby and if you want these guns get them and enjoy. It's also a great excuse to buy new gear! 

Edited April 8 by HesedTech

[MatroskinT]

20 hours ago, HesedTech said:

Okay here are the differences (SF TF - CZ S2)

1. Mags the same, no problems.

2. Mag pouches same.

3. Holster different. Depending on which is your primary gun the holster will either be tight or loose. 

4. Make sure ammo chronos within PF.

5. Grip and sight angles slightly different.

6. TF Parts easy to get in the USA through Patriot Defense.

7. CZ Shadow 2 has a far better DA draw than TF.

8. Trigger angles similar if you get the CGW RDR kit trigger and the TF Extreme DA/SA trigger. 

9. Draw is similar.

 

Remember this is a hobby and if you want these guns get them and enjoy. It's also a great excuse to buy new gear! 

@HesedTechThank you for the detailed comparison, looks like apart from the gun parts that will need to be modified anyway the holster is the only expense. I'm fine with rest. Now I need to decide would that be Limited Pro or the Stock Master

 

[shred]

Hidden in there is the DA trigger stroke is quite different.  Tanfo's are much more 'stacky' than CZs due to the geometry of the hammer spring.  I've got several of each although the TFs are mostly Large Frames.

 

[MatroskinT]

21 hours ago, shred said:

Hidden in there is the DA trigger stroke is quite different.  Tanfo's are much more 'stacky' than CZs due to the geometry of the hammer spring.  I've got several of each although the TFs are mostly Large Frames.

 

I assume it would be less of the problem for LO. But if I compare it to CZ would it be noticeable with light springs kit?

[shred]

Yes, it's much more of a thing in DA.  In SA if you tried, you could probably tell, but during a match, likely not.

[beastmode_05]

for practicality and training another s2 is optimal. but for cool tagfolio is nice my vote is stock master but you can't pick wrong

[Zachjet]

I love my stock master 

[MatroskinT]

thank you all folks -you nailed it @beastmode_05

[DenC]

Check out the Ghost Hydra P or P+ holster. They have a model which can be used with both the CZ S2 and Tanfoglio. On mine which was purchased from Italy it is marked Stock 2,3 Limited, Shadow 2, SPO1. But best to double check with Ghost. Also not sure if the Hydra P is ideal for 3-gun.

As for the mag compatibility between the Small frame tanfo and CZ, some say its ok while others say they are not. I haven't checked for myself as I haven't purchased my CZ75B yet. IIRC, there may be an over insertion issue wherein the mag may hit the ejector upon insertion. I plan to try mag compatibility out once I get my CZ but that wont be anytime soon.

 

It would seem nice to have 2 Tanfos or 2 CZ shadows to use for competition but get whatever makes you happy. 

 

That said,

I currently use a Tanfo small frame Stock 1 and since I really dont want to have a second stock 1 (also want some sort of variety, no matter how small ), I am considering getting a Stock 2 as a second, or primary competition gun. After trying a Stock 2 I think the handling characteristics are close enough to my Stock 1. The Stock 3 I tried kinda had a different, softer. or slower recoil impulse, probably because of the front weight and barrel/slide length. It seems I like the "snappier" Stock 1 and Stock 2 better. Tried a friend's Shadow 2 and didnt like it that much. But that decision might be overshadowed if I like the CZ75B that much. I got to try one at a range and I liked it. Will be comparing my stock 1 to the CZ75B under a timer once I get the cz. But if I find the Stock 1 does better for me under the clock, the CZ75B does have another purpose other than competition. But if I decide to use the CZ75B for competition, variety will go out the window and I will be getting a another CZ75B. and probably sell my Stock 1. But that remains to be seen.....unless something new and shiny catches my eye 

It might be a good idea to try a Tanfo before you buy.

Edited April 12 by DenC

[HesedTech]

On 4/12/2024 at 11:58 AM, DenC said:

As for the mag compatibility between the Small frame tanfo and CZ,

The only issues I've had are in the base pads. Henning extended base pads do not have as much angle in them where they meet with the mag well, and may not allow full insertion of the mag into the well. Taran Tac work fine in both.  Because the grip angle is slightly different the mag angle will also be different. What this means is the bullet lines up slightly different with the feed ramp. Because of this a bullet profile that works well in the CZ may not feed as well in the TF. Some tuning maybe required.

 

It will depend on the quality of the machining of the TF. CZs tend to have better quality control.

 

[MatroskinT]

On 4/12/2024 at 1:58 PM, DenC said:

Check out the Ghost Hydra P or P+ holster. They have a model which can be used with both the CZ S2 and Tanfoglio. On mine which was purchased from Italy it is marked Stock 2,3 Limited, Shadow 2, SPO1. But best to double check with Ghost. Also not sure if the Hydra P is ideal for 3-gun.
 

Thanks for the suggestion, looks like Hydra P+ should work with both guns. And with positive locking it should work for 3 Gun. BTW DAA Max also seem to work for both. 
 

I’m using Weber tactical now and I’m not a fan of it.

[DenC]

 

On 4/21/2024 at 4:42 AM, MatroskinT said:

Thanks for the suggestion, looks like Hydra P+ should work with both guns. And with positive locking it should work for 3 Gun. BTW DAA Max also seem to work for both. 
 

I’m using Weber tactical now and I’m not a fan of it.

The lock on the Ghost is kinda funky though. I cant lock it quickly or on the go. Releasing it is quick and easy though. Don't know if this matters in 3 gun or if it can be remedied. But I am quite happy using it in IPSC.

Edited Thursday at 03:01 PM by DenC

[Dicktater_Pete]

I'd go with another cz in the same setup, but that's just me.  

 

Probably more fun to have something different just bcos but..

[broadside72]

You guys worrying about a backup TF being a tad bit different than an S2 and I am here with a Bull Shadow 2 as main with a P10 plastic gun as a backup....

[MatroskinT]

Quick update: I’ve got the new toy in on Tuesday!!!

 

Below my few observations and impressions compared to S2 with ultra light spring  and reach reduction kits and new flatter trigger.

 

First observations: it’s gorgeous from the outside :).

I shoot a few (50) rounds from the old MecGar CZ magazines , all went through without problems, my friends’ newer MBX CZ mags didn’t lock in however and when they did he had problems feeding.

 

With the stock heavy springs, the recoil feels softer than  S2.

 

Accuracy: exceptional, 3 groups 3-4 rounds each , holes were touching from 7 yards. 
Trigger:

- DA is heavy, long and gritty, very close to how my SP01 came from the factory 10 years ago. I have done some basic polishing so it’s much nicer now. The worst offender was the trigger guide / plunger.

- SA long take up, fairly long reset. I assume some of that can be fixed by bolo interruptor? I hope the answer is yes :).

 

Grips: OEM grips are useless, had to cut old CZ’s LokGrips as a temporary solution.

 

Magazines: that is the area of concern, so far from 10ish Mec-Gar magazines I‘ve tried, 2-3 consistently binding and not ejecting, I don’t know if polishing magwell will fix it.. would like to hear the experiences and suggestions.

If I will find/adjust/modify a holster I might try to shoot a match over the weekend, and report the impressions.

 

 

 

[HesedTech]

14 hours ago, MatroskinT said:

- DA is heavy, long and gritty, very close to how my SP01 came from the factory 10 years ago. I have done some basic polishing so it’s much nicer now. The worst offender was the trigger guide / plunger.

- SA long take up, fairly long reset. I assume some of that can be fixed by bolo interruptor? I hope the answer is yes :).

Both DA and SA can be comparable to the Shadow 2. Because the hammer spring on TF is short the DA will always have a "stacking" feel.

Typically the PD 15.5 hammer spring is the best for lightness and strike power. I would recommend you get the PD extended FP and spring combo.

The reset and take-up of the TF is adjusted the same as CZ, change and fit the disconnector (TF doesn't call it a "disconnector"). The Bolo from PD is the way to go.

Yes the trigger bar plunger needs to be polished as well as the channel it rides in. You can run a lighter spring in the plunger.

Replacing the sear and hammer with the extreme sear and Titan Hammer makes for a shorter and crisper SA release of the hammer.

 

14 hours ago, MatroskinT said:

Grips: OEM grips are useless, had to cut old CZ’s LokGrips as a temporary solution.

Get Lok grips made for the gun. I prefer the palm swell on both guns.

 

You can run a lighter 

14 hours ago, MatroskinT said:

Magazines: that is the area of concern, so far from 10ish Mec-Gar magazines I‘ve tried, 2-3 consistently binding and not ejecting, I don’t know if polishing magwell will fix it.. would like to hear the experiences and suggestions.

 

The magazines may be binding at the mag well. The problem is the base pads where they interact with the magwell. Trim the base pads, or get new ones, and bevel the magwell opening.

 

My TFs and CZs shoot very similar as far as accuracy goes. The CZs have a bit more velocity, without slugging the barrel my guess is the CZ barrels are slightly tighter.

 

You can run a lighter recoil spring on the TF to achieve lower muzzle rise than the CZ. But that is a tuning and personal preference issue.

 

 

Congrats! Enjoy the new blaster!

 

[MatroskinT]

Thanks for the detailed response HesedTech.

 

I was unable to shoot the match on Sunday but shoot a few more magazines.

+ 1 on BOLO disconnector, will be ordering that from PD.

 

Back to the magazines questions, these are probably two separate topics:

One is polishing and rounding breechface, I would like to know if there is any guidance on how much to material to remove between the face and the rail? I saw some posts on that topic, just wanted better instructions. Here is the damage on one of my CZ magazines.

 

The second is how much you normally need to shave off of the basepad and which one would you recommend for best results and compatibility with CZ.

 

Thank you again!!!

[HesedTech]

3 hours ago, MatroskinT said:

One is polishing and rounding breechface,

If you mean the breech on the bolt normally that is not a problem, just clean it up and polish with buffer on Dremel. 

 

The magazines:

use these followers: https://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/Browse-by-Manufacturer/Rune-Tactical/Rune-Tactical-RT-Series-Springs-Followers

 

The gun's magwell can be tapered to fit magazines, here is a link to a discussion on doing it:

 

The PD extended base pads will work. They have a beveled edge which fits into the magwell. I have some Taran Tactical base pads which also work great. Henning's don't have enough bevel/angle where it meets the SF magwell.

 

https://patriotdefense.com/patriot-defense-cz-75-base-pad-aluminum-extended/

 

All of this works perfect in the Shadow 2.

 

Hope this helps!