rowdyb Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 Two thoughts, change the "match bump" rules to advance people more easily based on l2 and higher match performance. Second, if there was gambling on uspsa (I mean there is even gambling on pro pickleball games) then sure as heck there'd be a ranking system of high confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 (edited) 17 minutes ago, rowdyb said: Two thoughts, change the "match bump" rules to advance people more easily based on l2 and higher match performance. Second, if there was gambling on uspsa (I mean there is even gambling on pro pickleball games) then sure as heck there'd be a ranking system of high confidence. I think we could dump the 50 shooter requirement for match bump TBH. I don't really see what that accomplishes, maybe someone can fill me in. My thinking is does it matter how many average joes are in the match? No, what matters is what's 100%. So if we keep the 3 GM's finishing above 90% I don't see a need for a set number of non GM's in the match. Unless they win a stage they don't effect the outcome or your % anyway. Just don't become IDPA where everyone is a Master. I know several C class IDPA Masters who have zero chance of winning their division in IDPA as a Master. Edited March 7 by Racinready300ex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akarhi Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 2 hours ago, Racinready300ex said: Imagine setting up a drill and practicing to get better. It's so unfair. Guys who don't train and are stuck in some lower class are quick to talk about paper this or that and needing to make things fair. I mean youre literally just practicing for a classifier when you could do other drills to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akarhi Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 58 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: I think we could dump the 50 shooter requirement for match bump TBH. I don't really see what that accomplishes, maybe someone can fill me in. It does accomplish something. It prevent easy bump ups. I agree that 50 is too much. I think 25 is more reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishbreath Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 1 hour ago, Racinready300ex said: No, what matters is what's 100%. So if we keep the 3 GM's finishing above 90% I don't see a need for a set number of non GM's in the match. 3 over 90% has its own issues—it penalizes you when one really good shooter shows up. There was a C-class guy at Area 2 in 2023 who finished 65.4% of Sailer, which is deserving of a bump to B if any C-class finish is, but he missed out because Sailer put 6.5% on Eddins and 10.2% on Joon Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 12 minutes ago, Fishbreath said: 3 over 90% has its own issues—it penalizes you when one really good shooter shows up. There was a C-class guy at Area 2 in 2023 who finished 65.4% of Sailer, which is deserving of a bump to B if any C-class finish is, but he missed out because Sailer put 6.5% on Eddins and 10.2% on Joon Kim. But if you don't have some number of G's required you risk soft bumps. Remove the 3 over 90 and one guy shows up in a division and just coasts because he can't loose and people get bumps. If there isn't a chase for the top then everyone's finish is suspect. I think it's better to have a few match bumps not happen because someone blows everyone away vs everyone getting bumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 49 minutes ago, akarhi said: It does accomplish something. It prevent easy bump ups. I agree that 50 is too much. I think 25 is more reasonable. Can you explain to me how it makes bumps easier? If 10 people shoot L10 and Sailer shows up and wins the division and you shoot 75% of him. No bump. If 1,000 people show up and shoot L10 and Sailer shows up, shoots the exact same score and you finish 75% of him you bump to A. You didn't shoot any better but you got a bump. How is the second match harder to get a bump? How many people you beat doesn't effect your bump, and neither does how many beat you. The only thing that matters is your % of the winner. The thing that does effect you is if there are enough G's in contention pushing each other to win. Without that you'll get easy bumps. Which is why I don't think having 50 B and C class shooters matters. How many guys in contention to win is all that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 56 minutes ago, akarhi said: I mean youre literally just practicing for a classifier when you could do other drills to improve. So like if I shot El prez a bunch that's essentially gaming the system. But if I train my turn and draw on it's own and my reloads and my transitions and run drills that require all that but never shoot el prez that's some how different when El Prez is the classifier? IMO it's dumb not to use classifiers in practice. You can go set one up as a drill and run it and immediately know if you did well or not. How do you know if you're shooting a M or G pace in practice if you've never done it? Running a known drill with data on M's and G's is a good way to figure out the pace. Then you just need to figure out how to always shoot at that pace. At the end of the day that guy that practices classifiers and gets good at them is going to do better then most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akarhi Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 3 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: So like if I shot El prez a bunch that's essentially gaming the system. But if I train my turn and draw on it's own and my reloads and my transitions and run drills that require all that but never shoot el prez that's some how different when El Prez is the classifier? IMO it's dumb not to use classifiers in practice. You can go set one up as a drill and run it and immediately know if you did well or not. How do you know if you're shooting a M or G pace in practice if you've never done it? Running a known drill with data on M's and G's is a good way to figure out the pace. Then you just need to figure out how to always shoot at that pace. Thats a fair point. I am saying majority of the classifiers arnt really helpful for practicing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akarhi Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 14 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: Can you explain to me how it makes bumps easier? If 10 people shoot L10 and Sailer shows up and wins the division and you shoot 75% of him. No bump. If 1,000 people show up and shoot L10 and Sailer shows up, shoots the exact same score and you finish 75% of him you bump to A. You didn't shoot any better but you got a bump. How is the second match harder to get a bump? How many people you beat doesn't effect your bump, and neither does how many beat you. The only thing that matters is your % of the winner. The thing that does effect you is if there are enough G's in contention pushing each other to win. Without that you'll get easy bumps. Which is why I don't think having 50 B and C class shooters matters. How many guys in contention to win is all that matters. That an outlier. There are a very few major matches (I been and seen) where there arnt a lot of participate in the division and people who did better than usually. The fewer the participate in the division the easier it gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 6 minutes ago, akarhi said: That an outlier. There are a very few major matches (I been and seen) where there arnt a lot of participate in the division and people who did better than usually. The fewer the participate in the division the easier it gets. Can you explain how they do better? Do you mean they finish a higher % of the winner then they normally do? And if so how would the number of participants change the % they shot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 12 minutes ago, akarhi said: Thats a fair point. I am saying majority of the classifiers arnt really helpful for practicing. I would disagree. To do well on classifiers you need to be able to draw the gun fast, reload it fast and shoot A's fast. That stuff is pretty important in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 I got my first GM card by winning a Level 2 match with enough GMs there. First 100% score I ever got. Nothing lower would have put me over 95%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llamasabound Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 6 hours ago, shred said: I got my first GM card by winning a Level 2 match with enough GMs there. First 100% score I ever got. Nothing lower would have put me over 95%. Interestingly enough, I believe that’s also true for @Racinready300ex, although I may have my timing mixed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 11 hours ago, llamasabound said: Interestingly enough, I believe that’s also true for @Racinready300ex, although I may have my timing mixed up. Pretty accurate, I got my 2nd G card via winning a level 2 and getting a bump which I didn't know was a thing at the time. I've never hit 95% in that division. But I also stopped shooting irons about then too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddc Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 On 3/7/2024 at 9:15 AM, Racinready300ex said: I think it's better to have a few match bumps not happen because someone blows everyone away vs everyone getting bumps. Agree. Otherwise it's IDPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 On 3/8/2024 at 10:28 PM, ddc said: Agree. Otherwise it's IDPA. Exactly, IDPA attempted to fix their match bump system. I think they were probably hoping to make it so the smaller less popular divisions could still get bumps. The result is now Master is close to the biggest classification in Carry Optics. With 4 or 5 new Masters being made at every level 2+ match in the country. It used to be people would say B class = IDPA Master. Now it's C Class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now