Range Officer direction during CoF- what is allowable?

[teachingazteca]

Please excuse the length of this post... I am new to shooting competitively, have shot in 4 competitions of different types so far, and I am not sure what to make of this last competition.

 

As some background, I have been shooting for a few years and have been to many trainings and have several certifications (Active shooter, Conceal-carry, defensive pistol, hunter's ed, RSO). I am very comfortable handling a pistol, and pretty comfortable handling a shotgun and rifle- I do stop and think things through the first time I fire rifle/shotgun at competition, as they are not as instinctive to me as pistol is.

 

I wanted to share this because I participated in a 3-gun competition, and the RO treated me significantly different throughout every CoF.

 

This was my 2nd event there. I did have a new rifle and the scope was not quite sighted in, and I ended up using my BUS to participate.

 

He would not let me put a mag in the pistol unless it was holstered (and I had always done admin reloads out of the holsters before that, in every class, every certification, and it felt very strange to me).

 

He also would not let me touch my unloaded and clear-bore-indicated guns while in the racks. I had wanted to put a sling on my rifle, and I left it alone when he directed me not to touch it.

 

When we were running the CoF, he would give me direction and tell me not to do this or that, and in one case he completely reversed what he said about a particular shooting position from one CoF to the next.

 

All other competitors were freely doing the things he told me not to do, such as making decisions about shooting their CoF, picking up unloaded guns to show each other different parts/features, or to simply get them ready for their CoF (such as managing optics or preparing to use another competitor's gun for their CoF), etc...

 

Is there a point when the RO can hinder actions without there being a safety issue or  violation, DQ, etc... and how should I address these concerns in the future? I feel like in the least, I was not given the opportunity to participate without interference, but I do not want to be disrespectful RO.

 

Any advice? Thank you!

Edited October 15, 2023 by teachingazteca
typo

[Joe4d]

different organizations will have different rule books and some matches are just local outlaws that make up their own rules, sometimes on the fly.. Which is why many folks wont shoot a match that isnt sanctioned by a national org

[teachingazteca]

Edit- I forgot to say thank you for replying!

 

This is a local match, so that applies, but the nearest alternative is 100's of miles away. I don't mind different rules, but the RO was changing them on me, including during the CoF... he would just say things as I was shooting, and it was not rule-based.

 

For example, there was a shotgun portion with 3 targets, then another 3 targets a bit away from them. I was able to shoot all 6 from one position, but he told me I was supposed to move before shooting the 4th target. Comptetitors other than me shot the 6 targets in various combinations, but none were told what I was told. 

 

Then, when we ran the CoF again, as I started moving as he directed me, he stopped me and told me I was supposed to stay at that initial position and shoot the 4th target. This seemed like an obvious misdirection, and it rattled me, but I continued. I ended up doing poorly that run compared to my 1st run.

 

I want to be able to participate without this happening, unless there is a good reason for it that I can't see. I guess I'm asking for a way to diplomatically handle it?

Edited October 15, 2023 by teachingazteca

[Zachjet]

Did he know you were fairly new to this style of match?  Maybe he’s a little bit of an “overly-helpful” attitude kinda of person.

[teachingazteca]

I can understand that if it's help, but I feel like I was hindered by him.

 

He never asked about my experience or saw me handle the guns, he was giving me these directions and prohibitions before I stepped foot on the course.

 

I hit pretty much every shot the first CoF, missing some of the rifle shots because of the sights, so I don't understand why he kept giving me these "new rules".

 

Also, there were others who had malfunctions during the CoF that were not then followed as I was. 

 

[RJH]

This is one of the issues you will run into time to time at 3 gun matches. Read the ruleset for the match you are at and act accordingly. But READ THE RULES 

[warpspeed]

A lot of unknowns here so please take these suggestions accordingly.

 

I'd tell him thank you but to be quite unless it's a safety issue but that's just me.

 

Is the RO assigned to squad or stage ?   if squad, ask for a different squad. 

 

Ask another shooter who appears to know what's going on their opinion and maybe intervene for you.

 

And you can always talk to the Match Director and ask them.  

[teachingazteca]

It's only one stage, one squad, 5-8 people. We run it twice, and there are 1-2 RO's there to go with each person.

 

They don't publish a "ruleset" beyond a few paragraphs on the club website, it seems like it's locals that have been doing it for sometime together, along with people from towns nearby who come in every once in awhile. It's very informal.

 

I have done IDPA and USPSA at a large range with 5-6 stages, and this type of thing would not happen there, at least based on my experience and reading the rulesets for them.

 

Maybe a better example is in that he did not use the typical range commands with me, but everyone else he would go with onthe CoF got them and little else.

 

Instead, he would tell me what to do, explain it, and he would seem to anticipate what I might do and correct it before I even did anything. 

 

I ALMOST jokingly asked a few of the gents there if he always treated noobs like he was treating me, but I didn't want to ruffle feathers. No one said anything, either, so I really didn't know why he was acting like that.

Edited October 15, 2023 by teachingazteca

[teachingazteca]

I think you're right about asking for a different RO, though- I plan to go the next one, and if that's possible, I will ask. At the least, if a 2nd RO does the same, maybe it is me.

 

But I will say, the 1st time I shot with them, I did have different RO, and he treated me like everyone else, unless I asked something.

[Muricanwerewolf]

So there's two possibilities here. It sounds like you have found my favorite kind of person at a match, the s#!t sandwich who has found that knowing the rules of the game (or at least thinking he does) and being willing to hold the timer has made him a god. The easiest way to handle this is to note his name, and next sign up make sure you're not on that squad. I've seen entire squads shift over to avoid "that guy". They're out there and they can chase new shooters away like no one's business.

 

The second possibility is that you're pretty shaky with a weapon by competition standards and this guy was trying to keep you from doing something dangerous.

 

I don't think anybody on this forum could possibly know for sure. So moving forward If I were you I'd try another match with a different RO and see if your experience is any different, while being open to any input if it is in the interest of safety.

[Part_time_redneck]

It’s tough for anyone to really understand precisely what happened as we didn’t witness the events unfold in real time. One extreme could be the RO had a God complex. The other could be he was simply trying to be helpful but wound up going overboard. Either one is not good. 
 

For example. You said in one position you had a mandatory 3 targets to engage but could also see 3 more. It’s not always best to shoot everything you can see. The RO may have been trying to advise you to move through the stage further before engaging the next 3. Just speculation here. And he may have just been being a thing. 
 

If it were me and I was limited on options meaning I was going to be shooting matches here for a bit, I would straighten it out. Simply arrive early, find the guy, and politely have a conversation with him. Explain yourself and get it worked out before it gets worse. You don’t know what you don’t know. Perhaps he doesn’t understand how his actions are being interpreted. 
 

If he says he was just trying to be helpful, thank him but ask him to please not be so helpful while your shooting the stage. If he gets upset, simply ask for another RO. Either way the healing can begin 

-PTR

[davsco]

4 hours ago, Part_time_redneck said:

If it were me and I was limited on options meaning I was going to be shooting matches here for a bit, I would straighten it out. Simply arrive early, find the guy, and politely have a conversation with him. Explain yourself and get it worked out before it gets worse. You don’t know what you don’t know. Perhaps he doesn’t understand how his actions are being interpreted. 
 

If he says he was just trying to be helpful, thank him but ask him to please not be so helpful while your shooting the stage. If he gets upset, simply ask for another RO. Either way the healing can begin 

this

[shred]

Yeah, you will run into this guy again if you shoot in the area, so best try to sort it out amicably.  

[davsco]

11 hours ago, shred said:

Yeah, you will run into this guy again if you shoot in the area, so best try to sort it out amicably.  

that, or since this is a shooting sport, a duel at high noon?