New RL1100 High Primers

[xxratchetxx]

I just set up my new RL1100 and attempted to tune each stage for 9mm. I ran about 50 test loads and they looked great. The primers were just below flush. Then, i felt some odd resistance at the bottom of the downstroke and from that point forward all the primers were above flush. The shell plate appears to be tight enough. Any tighter and it will not rotate for indexing. Adjusting the primer depth screw just makes the brass get pushed and wedged into the shell plate. 

 

Any ideas for someone new to Dillon gear?

Edited August 13, 2023 by xxratchetxx
Adding 9mm detail

[IVC]

Check for the broken decapping pin on station 2. Looks like you're jamming new primers over old ones. That's the only explanation that would be consistent with all of your symptoms. A remote second would be that the white tab that holds the brass in place isn't set up correctly, so the primers are not lined up with the pockets. But this would result in squished primers, not merely sticking out. 

[Jmo2011]

Check the bolt that holds the rocker arm to the frame. If it loosens up you will get inconsistent results and seating depth will not change, no matter the adjustment. 

[midatlantic]

That’s happened to me too. It was tough to figure out an exact cause. It may be the bolt, so I check all parts of the primer system. What I have ended up doing is taking off the rocker arm etc cleaning everything w alcohol and then reassembling.  There are some other threads on this issue. 

[midatlantic]

 

[xxratchetxx]

Thanks all for the responses!

 

IVC, coming from other types of presses has me attentive to the depriming and im 100% certain that stacking primers isnt the issue. Im getting positive spent primer ejection and the swaging rod isnt crunching the old primer into the brass. I just double checked all the tabs this morning and they appear good to go though. 

 

JMO - i checked that bolt this morning and it was snug. To be sure, i loosened it and resnugged it to see if it was just torqued odd from the factory. No change on the primer depth. 

 

Midatlantic - i think thats the next step. Completely disassemble, clean, regrease, and reassemble the primer assembly

[ddc]

10 minutes ago, xxratchetxx said:

Midatlantic - i think thats the next step. Completely disassemble, clean, regrease, and reassemble the primer assembly

 

My 1100 problems typically go away after I disassemble, clean, grease, etc.

However on a new machine I was hesitant to suggest that.

When things start going wonky I usually just do a complete tear down of the top half of the machine.

[xxratchetxx]

I was hesitant with the new machine too. 

 

What things are known to affect primer seating depth on the machine? I have checked:

1) shell plate nut

2) rocker bolt

3) set screw in the toolhead. Turning tighter just causes the brass to get forced into the shellplate. 

 

Again, a complete teardown of the primer assembly is all i can think of at this point but I'm not fluent enough on the machine. Im going to read the thread midatlantic posted before I do anything on the press thougb

[SnipTheDog]

Swaging will also determine how a primer can get inserted into a case.  Use a gauge to determine if you are swaging enough or too much.

Edited August 13, 2023 by SnipTheDog

[xxratchetxx]

Snip - that is interesting since my old Hornady did not have a swaging feature and the only brass that caused problems was crimped brass. Im sure the swaging rod can cause its own issues but am still learning how it should be used/adjusted. I tried finding some videos on youtube that explain the feature but not many gave a good idea. What gauge would you recommend?

 

 

Also, i am loading 9mm and forgot to include that in the initial topic. 

[ddc]

One thing you could try is sorting out some brass that is known to be easy to work with and not require swaging.

Blazer Brass would be one possibility.

[Sarge]

Nothing wrong with sitting down in front of the press and calling Dillon. They will get it figured out

[SnipTheDog]

@xxratchetxx Try Ballistic Tools swage gauge:  SwageGauge  You can get the tools in large primer or small primer.

 

These tools help me understand if I'm swaging the primer pockets enough to allow a primer to sit flush.

 

There's a screw between the decapper/sizer (Pos 1) and the swage hold down (Pos 2) that will determine how deep the primer will be inserted. 

Edited August 13, 2023 by SnipTheDog

[IVC]

Let's be analytical about this - it's a mechanical system with several moving parts and we need to eliminate potential problems, one at a time. 

 

Here's the link to the 1100 manual, page 67 shows primer feeding system less the push rod which is installed in the toolhead. So, starting from the push rod side, here are the steps:

 

- Is the push rod secure and undamaged?

- Is push rod contacting the rocker?

- Is rocker free but snug?

- Is primer punch damaged?

- Is primer punch free to move?

- Is primer bushing tight, allowing punch to protrude the amount it's adjusted to?

 

This can be checked by simply observing the assembly as the arm is lowered. It's a mechanical set of "pulleys" so it either works or doesn't. The primer punch must be going up and down and must be able to change depth as the push rod is adjusted. It's easy to see and play with it with the toolhead lowered. 

 

Once you confirm that the punch is doing its job, that part of the debugging is done - the primer is being pushed up and it's being pushed up the correct amount. 

 

Next is to confirm the primer station itself. The brass must be centered, but if it's not the symptom is NOT that brass sits high, the symptom is that the primer is partially damaged. Looks like the brass is centered, but it doesn't hurt to confirm (I believe this is where 1100 is different from my 1050, there is no plastic tab on 1100). If there are no problems with damaged primers, use a clean and inspected brass to test seating. If it works on this brass, but not on all brass, the problem is in primer pocket preparation, a.k.a., swaging station. 

 

There is nothing in the OP to suggest problems with feeding primers, but there is one aspect that should be checked - that the area is clean and that there is no debris caught in the primer slide. Any foreign material can make the primer sit slightly higher, although it would cause it to be pushed deeper, not shallower. 

[IVC]

Rebuilding the press might solve the problem, but it's not a good way to do it. What good is it if the press starts working but you have no idea what caused the problem, so you don't know the next time where to look or what to adjust? 

[ddc]

19 minutes ago, IVC said:

Rebuilding the press might solve the problem, but it's not a good way to do it. What good is it if the press starts working but you have no idea what caused the problem, so you don't know the next time where to look or what to adjust? 

 

I agree 100%. 

I should have made it clear that my suggestion is more along the lines of "if all else fails...".

[xxratchetxx]

Thanks again

 

IVC - thats exactly the breakdown i needed and typically how I think. I tore it down and saw how everything interacted but couldnt find anything that looked amiss. 

 

What i did find is the Lyman Pro 9MM resizing die may be the source of the problem. The decapping rod is very long and is overinserting through the flash hole. This is deforming and pushing the primer pocket out to prevent a new primer from being fully inserted. This explains why a hand primer cannot insert the primer to below flush either (probably a risky mistake to try in hindsight). I determined the issue when i processed brass on my hornady press and transferred them into station 3. Worked like a charm and had me looking at station 2 pretty intently

 

The decapping rod doesnt appear yo be adjustable like my rcbs or hornady variants; however, I really like the spring. I loosened the cap at the top and took the die out 1/8 turn and that appears to have fixed the issue. I'm about to try a run of 100 cartridges to see. 

[ddc]

Nice debugging! Very interesting as I had not run into that before nor would I have ever suspected that.

Learn something new...

 

I'm surprised that the decapping pin can't be adjusted for depth but I'm not familiar with that particular die.

[xxratchetxx]

Yeah, I'm not sure I would have found it if I didnt have the other press set up next to it and attempt to compare station-station. 

 

It doesn't much in the way of depth adjustment. Very very little. I added a large o-ring to the cap to create some extra space. Still get good forceful primer ejection without the brass damage. 

[HesedTech]

6 hours ago, xxratchetxx said:

What i did find is the Lyman Pro 9MM resizing die may be the source of the problem

First time I’ve heard of the decapping rod damaging the brass. Learn something new every day. 
 

You spent a lot of money on the press, spend a little more for a die more appropriate for high speed operation. If you are going to single pass load use the Dillon die. If you decide to process in two passes, use a dedicated decapping die. I recommend the FW Arms self centering one. Then use the Lyman die sans the decapping pin. 

[xxratchetxx]

4 minutes ago, HesedTech said:

You spent a lot of money on the press, spend a little more for a die more appropriate for high speed operation. If you are going to single pass load use the Dillon die. If you decide to process in two passes, use a dedicated decapping die. I recommend the FW Arms self centering one. Then use the Lyman die sans the decapping pin. 

 

I thought thats what i was doing when i bought the $250 Lyman die set. I would have bought the dillon dies if they were available. Have you seen how backordered they are and what the secondary market is on Dillon dies? These Lyman dies are supposed to be top-notch and, aside from this odd style for depriming die, appear to be just that. 

Edited August 14, 2023 by xxratchetxx

[ddc]

14 minutes ago, xxratchetxx said:

 

I thought thats what i was doing when i bought the $250 Lyman die set. I would have bought the dillon dies if they were available. Have you seen how backordered they are and what the secondary market is on Dillon dies? These Lyman dies are supposed to be top-notch and, aside from this odd style for depriming die, appear to be just that. 

 

I've been using the Lee sizing/decapping die for quite a while now. I have no complaints.

It does allow for setting the decapping pin to whatever depth you desire.

 

[xxratchetxx]

Gotcha. I think I have one of those squirreled away somewhere. Do you have any issues with primers being sucked back into the pocket? I had that issue with the RCBS and Hornady dies on my other press

 

[ddc]

11 hours ago, xxratchetxx said:

Gotcha. I think I have one of those squirreled away somewhere. Do you have any issues with primers being sucked back into the pocket? I had that issue with the RCBS and Hornady dies on my other press

 

 

Very seldom. I know that it can be an issue for some but I usually don't have a problem.

[IVC]

20 hours ago, xxratchetxx said:

The decapping rod doesnt appear yo be adjustable like my rcbs or hornady variants; however, I really like the spring. I loosened the cap at the top and took the die out 1/8 turn and that appears to have fixed the issue.

Don't do this, it's not just a decapping die, it's a sizing die. While 1/8 turn is normally acceptable, you should set the sizing die correctly for sizing or you're looking at other potential problems down the road. 

 

With Lyman spring loaded die, what can happen (and happened to me) is that the threads where the decapping pin is screwed into the head were damaged and the pin couldn't screw all the way in. I actually recently ordered a bunch of spare pins and caps for their universal decapping die (same principle, but doesn't do sizing) because I couldn't thread it correctly all the way in.

 

So, check that the pin is screwed in tightly and check the amount of thread that is exposed. It might be the problem.