Looking for a proxy for 124gr Gold Dot.

[SteveJewels]

I have factory Gold Dots for carry and looking for a bullet that has similar feed characteristics for practice.

 

124gr, jacketed, relatively inexpensive.

 

A TC bullet with the end diameter like the GD and a similar ogive would be great.

 

Not really looking for a HP but that might have to do.

 

RMR 124gr TC Matchwinners look like a possibility but I can't really get a good feel for the shape from the pic.

 

The RMR MPR Nukes look pretty close to the GD but I 'm not sure I want to run HP's for practice...

 

Thanks!

Edited June 10, 2023 by SteveJewels
Typo

[RangerTrace]

I think truncated cones are close.  

[RangerTrace]

1 minute ago, RangerTrace said:

I think truncated cones are close.  

The RMR 124 TC Matchwinners are what I'm running  right now.  Exceptional accuracy and they feed like butter in my P320s.

[Farmer]

4 hours ago, SteveJewels said:

I have factory Gold Dots for carry and looking for a bullet that has similar feed characteristics for practice.

 

124gr, jacketed, relatively inexpensive.

 

A TC bullet with the end diameter like the GD and a similar ogive would be great.

 

Not really looking for a HP but that might have to do.

 

RMR 124gr TC Matchwinners look like a possibility but I can't really get a good feel for the shape from the pic.

 

The RMR MPR Nukes look pretty close to the GD but I 'm not sure I want to run HP's for practice...

 

Thanks!

I bought Speer some TMJ when I bought my Gold Dots. Very close to the GD for load work up. FWIW 6.0 grains of Silhouette with the 124 makes a good SD load. 

[SteveJewels]

@Farmer

 

Thanks for the info on Silhouette. I have some for this.

 

Those look like the bullets loaded in Speer Lawman which they load as a practice round for GD's. Yes, they are an excellent match load wise.

 

I am looking for something that might be somewhat problematic feed wise.

 

When I was shooting 45, any gun would feed ball. Most would feed HP's, depending on how large the opening was and the shape of the ogive. More than a few had problems feeding SWC's like the H&G 68's.

 

When I say "proxy for GD's", what I am really looking for is a 124gr that is a proxy feed wise for the GD's.

 

I will be shooting a Commander sized 1911.

 

Thanks!

 

 

[Cfish]

Sometimes American reloading has 124gr GD pulls quite cheap.

[Farmer]

@SteveJewels
Ok, now the lights came on!  You want the Worst feeding bullet. The RMR nukes are more rounded with a smaller HP. I can’t think of any right off hand as it seems that most manufacturers are paying attention to nose profiles for good feeding. The Berry’s 124 FN might be a choice. I guess you could get some cheapies and just load them backwards. 

Edited June 10, 2023 by Farmer

[HesedTech]

22 hours ago, SteveJewels said:

I have factory Gold Dots for carry and looking for a bullet that has similar feed characteristics for practice.

 

124gr, jacketed, relatively inexpensive.

You want a reload that runs like factory, correct?

Just about any FP (not wad cutter) should be close to the HP, but you need the same recoil response to match your factory carry ammo.

 

Personally getting Everglades Ammo bullets is probably the best and closest for the price (10.9 cents each, GD about 30 cents each).

 

124 grain HP Plated:  https://www.evergladesammo.com/bullets/handgun-bullets/9mm-124gr-hp-plated-bullets.html

 

Unless you have feeding issues (understand it's a 1911) replicate recoil for practice, if that's what you're doing. 

This will take a chrono to match velocity with factory assuming you are loading your own.

 

Edited June 10, 2023 by HesedTech

[SteveJewels]

27 minutes ago, Farmer said:

@SteveJewels
Ok, now the lights came on!  You want the Worst feeding bullet. The RMR nukes are more rounded with a smaller HP. I can’t think of any right off hand as it seems that most manufacturers are paying attention to nose profiles for good feeding. The Berry’s 124 FN might be a choice. I guess you could get some cheapies and just load them backwards. 

Not 'worst', but similar to GD's, yes.

 

I was looking at the RMR Nukes. Can't tell definitavely from the pix what the HP size and ogive are like so thanks.

 

Perhaps the RMR TC's? I prefer jacketed to plated.

[Farmer]

9 minutes ago, SteveJewels said:

Not 'worst', but similar to GD's, yes.

 

I was looking at the RMR Nukes. Can't tell definitavely from the pix what the HP size and ogive are like so thanks.

 

Perhaps the RMR TC's? I prefer jacketed to plated.

BTW, Gold Dots are plated. When I get home I’ll take some pics of GD, MW, Nuke and whatever else I have together. 

Edited June 11, 2023 by Farmer

[SteveJewels]

The Speer Gold Dots I have are bonded so couldn't be plated.

 

Do you have any Truncated Cones? Looking for 124gr.

 

Thanks!

[SteveJewels]

1 hour ago, HesedTech said:

You want a reload that runs like factory, correct?

Just about any FP (not wad cutter) should be close to the HP, but you need the same recoil response to match your factory carry ammo.

 

Personally getting Everglades Ammo bullets is probably the best and closest for the price (10.9 cents each, GD about 30 cents each).

 

124 grain HP Plated:  https://www.evergladesammo.com/bullets/handgun-bullets/9mm-124gr-hp-plated-bullets.html

 

Unless you have feeding issues (understand it's a 1911) replicate recoil for practice, if that's what you're doing. 

This will take a chrono to match velocity with factory assuming you are loading your own.

 

I want to match Speer God Dot factory as that is what I carry. I want to match it for (potential) feed difficulty as well as recoil.

 

FP = TC?

 

I can match recoil impulse with powder speed and quantity.

[HOGRIDER]

Irrelevant..

 

 

Edited June 11, 2023 by HOGRIDER
update

[HOGRIDER]

Doubled..........

 

 

Edited June 11, 2023 by HOGRIDER
To correct description!

[HOGRIDER]

That RMR MPR Nuke definitely has a very similar profile!  

 

IMO, you may need to load a JHP to get the terminal velocity close to the Gold Dot's performance.....

 

Good luck!

[HesedTech]

1 hour ago, SteveJewels said:

I want to match Speer God Dot factory as that is what I carry. I want to match it for (potential) feed difficulty as well as recoil.

 

FP = TC?

 

I can match recoil impulse with powder speed and quantity.

Why would you want ammo that feed poorly?
If this is a carry gun failure should not be an option. 
 

No FP is not TC different ogives.

https://www.snscasting.com/9mm-125-grain-flat-point-red-coated-500ct/

https://thebluebullets.com/product-category/9mm-38-super-355/125-gr-truncated-cone/

 

For practice plated vs FMJ makes no difference. I would put money that if the recoil impulse are the same you couldn’t tell which was which. 
 

 

 

[HesedTech]

2 hours ago, SteveJewels said:

The Speer Gold Dots I have are bonded so couldn't be plated.

I’m pretty sure GD are typical HP FMJ, carried them for years in 40.

[SteveJewels]

9 hours ago, HesedTech said:

Why would you want ammo that feed poorly?
If this is a carry gun failure should not be an option. 
 

No FP is not TC different ogives.

https://www.snscasting.com/9mm-125-grain-flat-point-red-coated-500ct/

https://thebluebullets.com/product-category/9mm-38-super-355/125-gr-truncated-cone/

 

For practice plated vs FMJ makes no difference. I would put money that if the recoil impulse are the same you couldn’t tell which was which. 
 

 

 

You make the gun shoot what you want to shoot. HP's, expecially those with lage openings, tend to have feed problems. I want to have that worked out.

 

Looked at the two bullets you linked to. Ogive looks the same to me. Both flat. That is why I asked the question.

 

RNFP would be different.

 

 

Edited June 11, 2023 by SteveJewels

[Farmer]

5 hours ago, SteveJewels said:

You make the gun shoot what you want to shoot. HP's, expecially those with lage openings, tend to have feed problems. I want to have that worked out.

 

Looked at the two bullets you linked to. Ogive looks the same to me. Both flat. That is why I asked the question.

 

RNFP would be different.

 

 

Sorry for the delay on this. This is what I could dig up so far all 124g.  
1- PD JHP style #1

2- Speer Gold Dot

3- RMR JHP Nuke

4- RMR Match Winner FN

You can call it what you want but the GD is a plated bullet. Speer just does a much better job at the manufacturing process. I’ve noticed they have changed their wording about how they’re made but it’s the same as the rest. It used to be “We electro chemically plate the lead core”. Now it’s “We electro chemically bond the core”. I think beings early “plated” bullets got a bad rap they re-worded it. The old “bonded” bullets were a traditional cup core jacketed that pretty much had the jacket soldered to the lead core. Expensive and slow process. Either way the GD bullets have always been accurate and performed well for me and I don’t care how they make them, as long as they keep makin them! 
Here’s from a Speer factory tour. 

Speer has a completely different take on bonding. They plate their bullets, using a proprietary Uni-Cor method. This creates a bond at the molecular level, making it impossible for the lead core to separate from the jacket. Speer actually acquires bulk led alloy to their specification, then extrudes it into a wire that allows them to precisely control the weight of the lead core.

Edited June 11, 2023 by Farmer

[SteveJewels]

@Farmer

 

Thanks for the pix. Very helpful. Exactly what I needed. The MW probably comes closest.

 

As far as Gold Dots being plated, not buying it. LOL

 

The copper jacket slows the expansion of the lead. A copper plated HP would expand as fast and as much as if it had no copper plating. Copper plating has no strength.

 

This is from the Speer website, "Our original Gold Dot line remains a benchmark for both self-defense and duty use, and it’s earned the trust of law enforcement world-wide. It features a pressure-formed lead core that’s bonded to an extremely uniform jacket"

 

Handy link to 9mm, 124gr Gold Dots on Speer website

[Sarge]

16 minutes ago, SteveJewels said:

@Farmer

 

As far as Gold Dots being plated, not buying it. LOL

Last I knew they are definitely plated.

[Farmer]

https://www.speer.com/performance/gold-dot-performance.html 

The hardness of the lead, thickness of the plating and depth of the cavity is how they control expansion. Berrys makes some but they don’t have the combo figured out quite right. I tried some 230 45’s and they had to be pushed over 900 fps to expand and even then it was iffy. 

Edited June 11, 2023 by Farmer

[stick]

Try Everglades Ammo.  They have 124gr HP's that look like they might work.

https://www.evergladesammo.com/bullets/handgun-bullets.html?caliber=43&grain_weight=180

[SteveJewels]

1 hour ago, Farmer said:

https://www.speer.com/performance/gold-dot-performance.html 

The hardness of the lead, thickness of the plating and depth of the cavity is how they control expansion. Berrys makes some but they don’t have the combo figured out quite right. I tried some 230 45’s and they had to be pushed over 900 fps to expand and even then it was iffy. 

 

 

You do not find what Speer has posted on their website to be persuasive? 

Edited June 11, 2023 by SteveJewels
Typo

[HesedTech]

12 hours ago, SteveJewels said:

 

Looked at the two bullets you linked to. Ogive looks the same to me. Both flat. That is why I asked the question.

Steve

 

loaded over 100k including, FMJ HP, plated and multiple coated ogives in 9mm, 40 and 45 (not including other calibers and rifle), and you missed the ogive in the pics. Normally RNFP don’t come in 124 so I tried to find you an example in 124.  And HP are essential a RNFP.

 

I have a couple of 1911 commanders with old style feed ramps and yes they can be picky. But, your quest is to load practice ammo with a similar feel to factory carry ammo.

 

You’ve been given a bunch of great options for bullets so go and do it. Report back what worked best for you, the powder, velocity and bullets you used. 

Edited June 12, 2023 by HesedTech