Canik Rival S Guide Rod/Spring Updates

[BillGarlandJr]

On 8/20/2023 at 2:13 PM, Jeff O said:

Wolff or IMSI?

Wolff. It worked fine, but since I made that post, I’ve gone back to the stock recoil spring assembly. After putting a couple thousand rounds through the gun with it installed, the stock assembly has broken in nicely and I’m actually really pleased with how the gun shoots now.

[Jeff O]

8 hours ago, BillGarlandJr said:

Wolff. It worked fine, but since I made that post, I’ve gone back to the stock recoil spring assembly. After putting a couple thousand rounds through the gun with it installed, the stock assembly has broken in nicely and I’m actually really pleased with how the gun shoots now.

My thoughts as well.

[bigtimelarry]

On 8/23/2023 at 12:18 AM, BillGarlandJr said:

Wolff. It worked fine, but since I made that post, I’ve gone back to the stock recoil spring assembly. After putting a couple thousand rounds through the gun with it installed, the stock assembly has broken in nicely and I’m actually really pleased with how the gun shoots now.

 

What pound Spring comes with the Stock Polymer Canik Rival ? I know they have a Red & Blue but mine is Silver that came with the Gun.  Anybody know what pound it is, 16, 17 or 18 maybe ?

[BillGarlandJr]

44 minutes ago, bigtimelarry said:

 

What pound Spring comes with the Stock Polymer Canik Rival ? I know they have a Red & Blue but mine is Silver that came with the Gun.  Anybody know what pound it is, 16, 17 or 18 maybe ?

My guess is 16 or 17

[BradNC]

According to Galloway Precision, the stock Canik Recoil Spring Assembly (RSA) for the TP9 SFx is 19.1#. I just bought another stock RSA from Canik for my TP9 SFx and the box says it fits the TP9 SFx, the METE SFx, and the Rival SFx (among others too). So the answer might be 19.1#. The only unknown is probably whether Galloway measured a new Canik RSA or one that's been broken in. Maybe asking them would be helpful.

 

https://gallowayprecision.com/canik/tp9/stainless-steel-guide-rod-assembly-for-canik-tp9-tp9sft-tp9sfx-pistols

 

Hope this helps somewhat.

[Jeff O]

Galloway Precision only supports 20 lb and heavier recoil springs. WTH?

[BradNC]

I see on their ordering system that they provide lower power RSA springs, but they couple those with lower power striker springs. I see 15-24# supported by them?

[Jeff O]

1 hour ago, BradNC said:

I see on their ordering system that they provide lower power RSA springs, but they couple those with lower power striker springs. I see 15-24# supported by them?

In an email they told me they don't support less than a 20.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Jeff O

[partyboy424]

The Rival S is 17 pounds recoil spring.  Can’t remember where I first saw that answer, but I have everything from 14-18 pound springs and it performs exactly between the 16 and 18 pound springs.  It’s no where near a 19 pound. 

[BradNC]

Freaky because they have a drop-down ordering list that shows 15lb!!!  Mighty weird!

[Jeff O]

As a whole I'm not too impressed w Galloway.

[dsmarty386]

this setup has worked flawlessly for me:

 

1. glock 34 tungsten guide rod from glockstore

2. 12lb glock recoil spring from wolff (cut off small coil at end so it fits on guide rod)

3. 5.5lb glock striker spring.

 

nice return, no issues

[WxGuy]

Stock is 18.  I've gone back to it and my gun is more accurate with it. 

[BradNC]

Every time I've tried a lighter striker spring in my TP9SFx I've had chronic light primer strikes, so I'm back on the stock recoil spring to match the stock striker spring (I use a light/laser to weight the muzzle instead of the W74 and this works very well). I think my TP9SFx is a bit of an unfortunate freak. (Lighter recoil springs won't mate with the stock striker in my copy of the TP9SFx, I get poor battery reliability.) I guess the newer models (Rivals, METE) have more reliable tolerances than my TP9SFx.

[ChrisDeRouen]

58 minutes ago, BradNC said:

Every time I've tried a lighter striker spring in my TP9SFx I've had chronic light primer strikes, so I'm back on the stock recoil spring to match the stock striker spring (I use a light/laser to weight the muzzle instead of the W74 and this works very well). I think my TP9SFx is a bit of an unfortunate freak. (Lighter recoil springs won't mate with the stock striker in my copy of the TP9SFx, I get poor battery reliability.) I guess the newer models (Rivals, METE) have more reliable tolerances than my TP9SFx.

Not necessarily.... when I've changed my striker spring in combination with my recoil spring because I had issues returning to battery. 

[pumpedTSI]

UPDATE.....thought I already posted but anyways.....issue resolved!! It was the barrel......I decided to take a gamble on my hunch and sent my original barrel out to Patriot for reaming and throating.....around $60 or so and back in a week. Put it in and ran 350 flawless rounds thru it, no effect on accuracy......go figure....hope this helps somebody else

[Seanzky]

Does anyone else use the Sprinco RMS (recoil management system)? What is the guide rod made of? I thought it was polished stainless steel, but after maybe 700-800 rounds, it's scratched up and adds friction to the action. The performance is great, but I don't know if I'm confident that this will last long. What do y'all think about Rune Tactical? Anyone here use that combo (guide rod, lighter-than-stock recoil spring, firing pin spring)? I also have the Sprinco TSK (trigger spring kit) and I noticed Rune Tactical also have the same kit. Honestly, the Sprinco trigger spring kit and the Freedomsmith trigger as a combination is amazing. I was just wondering if anyone else here has experience with either Sprinco and Rune Tactical and can chime in.

Edited November 9, 2023 by Seanzky

[BradNC]

I just jumped onto the Sprinco RMS/RSA. I agree that it doesn't seem to be a really hard steel although they say it's stainless so it's probably hard. I'm getting scratches on the disc that mounts to the barrel lug(s). I really like the way it shoots (I use a light/laser for ballast on my TP9SFx) and would not swap back to a "normal" RSA (or tungsten for that matter). I'm gonna keep my Sprinco RSA oiled with the oil that Sprinco sent and see if that keeps it humming over time. Let's hope it's long lasting. It does have that lifetime warrantee.

[Seanzky]

1 hour ago, BradNC said:

I just jumped onto the Sprinco RMS/RSA. I agree that it doesn't seem to be a really hard steel although they say it's stainless so it's probably hard. I'm getting scratches on the disc that mounts to the barrel lug(s). I really like the way it shoots (I use a light/laser for ballast on my TP9SFx) and would not swap back to a "normal" RSA (or tungsten for that matter). I'm gonna keep my Sprinco RSA oiled with the oil that Sprinco sent and see if that keeps it humming over time. Let's hope it's long lasting. It does have that lifetime warrantee.

Oh! That's good to know. I didn't know about the lifetime warranty, but then again, I didn't get any oil with mine. Haha. Yeah, performance-wise it's fantastic. I shot snappy factory ammo and I was able to double-tap around .20 splits and keeping it within a 4-5" circle at 7 yards. I then shot some gamer loads and I couldn't help but chuckle.

 

The rough scratching I'm getting is the only thing I'm worried about. I am also getting scratches on the same disc. I don't remember anymore how tight the guide rod hole is on the TP9SFx slide, but in my Rival-S it's very close to the diameter of the Sprinco guide rod. I have less than 1k rounds through mine and it's already looking rough.

[BradNC]

I've got maybe 1mm all around the end of the guide rod to the slide hole inside diameter. The spring seems to keep it centered in the hole so I'm not seeing collision marks, but my Sprinco is pretty new so not many rounds yet. And yeah, it's really nice on snappy 115gr ammo! It made me smile too, like a secret weapon or something. Much nicer than other recoil spring setups (to me anyway). I was seeking a cure for snappy ammo and this does it.

[Weapon]

This may help someone…

 

Caniks cock on close (in the just last few millimeters of slide movement). If you are running a lighter RSA you often have to use a lighter striker spring. Failure of the slide to go into battery during those last few mm is due to the recoil spring having to fight several things at once - the round going into the chamber, upward pressure from the mag spring but especially the force required to compress the striker spring.
 

The first SFx pistols and other Caniks of that time were designed around 9mm NATO specs. The striker springs were ridiculously overpowered (they could likely launch a golf ball into low earth orbit). Their recoil springs were also very stout so that didn’t cause any problems especially if you were shooting them with 9mm NATO spec ammo (i.e. 124gr FMJ moving at around 1225fps out of an SFx). That’s 151.9 power factor for anyone still paying attention. NATO spec ammo often has harder primers so that recoil spring and striker spring combo made sense for the specs. However, it certainly isn’t ideal for production division or CO. 
 

A few years later, Canik lightened both springs but just slightly. Around the same time, the Sig P320 drop fire nonsense came up and people were all over YouTube whacking loaded guns on the back of the slide with a mallet to see if they could make them go off. Canik released the “severe duty upgrade” to make sure their guns were “whack with a mallet” safe. The part of this that’s worth noting is they changed the drop plunger spring — if you have a pretty blue coated drop plunger spring in your Canik, that’s a post-SDU spring. They are heavier and this is relevant as it can cause some drag issues on the striker if you start playing around with the other springs. It also adds a weird wall in the trigger pull on some Caniks.
 

So, if you want to go really low on the recoil spring, you will almost certainly have to change the striker spring (Sprinco, 6.5lb Ghost spring out of a Glock 17, etc). If you also have the SDU drop plunger spring, you likely want to replace that with one from Sprinco or a Ghost Glock RP Glock block plunger spring (this spring may require a slight stretch but it works…competition use  only obviously). 
 

With a mixture of the various springs above (I tried around 27 different combinations before I quit counting), I have been able to run ammo as low as 105pf in my Rival with no problems. I was using different bullets and powder and started at book recommended loads when I discovered this - they were hilarious to shoot due to the compete lack of recoil but they ran fine. The point being you can run a really light RSA if you swap out the other springs and get the right balance between them.

 

note: changing the striker spring and the drop plunger spring will also reduce the trigger pull. 
 

Another problem to watch out for on newer Caniks is the freebore/throat & leade. Someone at Canik had the brilliant idea to make the newer ones really short. This was not a problem on the original SFx ver. 1.0 as you could load really long with those - like >1.160” with coated bullet and have no problems. You are not going to get near that COAL in the the newer barrels. Loaded rounds that will easily pass a Dillon gauge will not work. The one in my Rival Dark Side was so short that I finally sent it off and had it reamed. It still won’t let me load as long as my original SFx but at least it gives me a little more room than the factory barrel.
 

For whatever the reason, a very short freebore/throat/leade seems to be the new thing with many manufacturers. Since I ran into this problem on my Rival, I have encountered the same with other barrels from other manufacturers where virtually none of my older 9mm pistols are like this. As such, I have gotten in the habit of doing a plunk and spin test with every new 9mm barrel I get to check it with every ammo I plan to use in it. That includes factory ammo as, to my amazement, I have now found some 9mm barrels that will not pass plunk and spin with slightly older production date factory ammo. The most recent was the concerning combination of a PSA dagger barrel and older Remington 115gr JHP +p. Despite being factory ammo, those had the bullet firmly in the rifling (just short of plunk, no where close to spin) and, as they are also +p, that could cause an impressive pressure spike. I didn’t test fire them as I like having all my fingers. 

[memery]

New to this forum. TP9SFx bought brand new  2/19/2024.  Went to sight and break in and got terrible FTE  and or stovepipe from the first shot.  Gun was  cleaned prior to loading. Outer part of the barrel had sticky stuff on it, cleaned with solvent inside and out. Lubed gun as per Canik handbook. Ammo was stock Remington 115 gr 9mm and Blazer 115 gr . Magazines were stock Canik 18 round loaded with 17 rounds.

 

It did this with both 18 shot magazines. Actually had difficulty getting some of the jams cleared.  On the very first fire the gun fired but the slide never worked back and forth?   I had to manually rack it and sure enough the spent round was still in there. Then I had to rack it again to get a new round in.

 

When it jammed for FTE, the spent round was on top of the new round coming in and jammed it as well as damaging the bullet head of the new round. It did this repeatedly for the rest of the session before i got black flagged on the range....

 

When it fired  the gun was very accurate at 15 Ft. Dead center so that was the upside along with the easy slide removal. ( I have owned a Glock 17 Gen 4 for 8 years and that is not so easy to get the slide off ) 

 

I have read how this could be a symptom of the RSA needing work or  replacing or that the ramp for the barrell needs work to have the right angle. I also read about using different barrells and optimizing the magazines ( not sure how to do that...) I also read that I should be shooting 124 gr FMJ Nato round x 350 to break this gun in.   IIRC There is nothing in the Canik hand book about break-in.

So I am asking what i should start to to solve this. I  emailed Canik but have heard nothing ( I gather from here and other forums their support is slow and weak. ) 

My plan...

1. attempt to shoot 2 box of 124 gr FMJ NATO thru the gun to see if it helps.

2. Wait to see what Canik says

3. Try different magazines

4. Get you guys recommend for the RSA if needed

5. buy  a better barrell  use some black sharpie marker to see where the bullet nose is landing.

 

LMK guys Please help !!!!!

 

PS i ran the damaged rounds thru my Glock 17 Gen 4 and every one worked flawlessly.. LOL

Edited February 26 by memery

[BradNC]

Lots of folks have had very similar experiences with stock TP9SFx's. The typical approach is to shoot higher power ammo for a while to "loosen" (break-in) the stock recoil spring. Mine worked OK after about 3-4 boxes of 124gr Norma or Sellier&Bellot (~380ft-lb)...generally the slightly higher power stuff than 115gr WWB, and certainly higher power than 115gr Blazer. (Which I won't buy because I don't like 335ft-lb ammo if I can use higher power stuff. I "warm up" using 335ft-lb stuff then use 360-400ft-lb for the main session, but that's just my preference.) So keep shooting it using more powerful ammo if possible. I bet it'll work fine pretty soon.

[BillGarlandJr]

I had gone back to the stock spring after messing around with other guide rod and spring combos, and that was mainly to get the gun to run reliably. Since then, I’ve put a few thousand rounds through the pistol, which has broken it in nicely. The stock spring is pretty heavy and I felt like I was fighting some muzzle dip, so I went back to the P320 guide rod with a 14# commander spring. It’s running great and the gun comes back down on target nicely. For many of these Rival S pistols, it could well be they need some breaking in before they really run they way we want them to.

[rondawes]

Has anyone tried the DPM recoil reduction system in their Canik? I have a Rival S and recently installed the DPM kit. It comes with 4 springs of varying length and 2 collars/cups that the front end of the spring are placed in before inserting into the front slide spring pocket. So that's 8 combinations to play with. I was hoping for some guidance from DPM but the documentation is very sparse. I'm using the 2nd shortest spring and the thinner cup and it seems to work OK. But I certainly don't know if it's the optimal combination. Any advice from other users?