Grip

[Oldgrey]

Howdy,

I enjoy shooting my Colt revolver at the monthly Speed Steel matches at the local gun club. After shooting for only a year, I have noticed that most newer shooters use rubber-type grips like Pachys. The guys that have been shooting for a few years are what I find interesting. A lot of them use hard wood grips instead of rubber ones, and the other bunch use grip- or skateboard-tape. One guy that was in my squad had a plastic gun and the grip was completely grip-taped. Sometimes in the summer, I see guys breaking out the M14 HighPower Glove Glue and putting it in their hands.

What do you guys like? Smooth Jerry grips so you can squinch your grip around, or grabby grips that demand a correct grip on the draw? Wasn't there a blurb in one of the two gun magazines about how Jerry likes the smooth grip he endorses, so he can correct a bad grip on the draw by squiching around a little as he come up to eye level?

I ground down some junk grips I had left over and covered them in grip tape to see what would happen next time I shoot.

y'all be cool

Grey

...don't own it, shoot the thing!

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

What do you guys like? Smooth Jerry grips so you can squinch your grip around, or grabby grips that demand a correct grip on the draw?

Grey

...don't own it, shoot the thing!

I am not much of an indicator, but I have tried the Jerry grips and really don't like them. (They will probably end up in the classified section in the not too distant future)

I have a set of Hogue fingergroove checkered grips that I always return to. My hands don't have a lot of feeling left so I need something that really cuts into them.

My flat guns use Grip tape from Eric Wesselman. No as course as I would like but they do the trick. I told Eric he must have "Girly hands"

http://www.ericwesselman.com/

regards,

[spook]

Keep in mind that Jerry's grips are so slick because he has to throw the gun around a lot when he reloads. If you reload "the other way" you don't need a slick grip.

With that in mind, I think it all depends on if you have sweaty hands or not. I use a lot of grip tape.

Some other things to consider:

1) The size of "the inside of your hand". Jerry's hands are big, but they're also "thick" making the available size inside his hand when he grips something very small. That is why the grips are too small for some people.

2) The space between your hand and the grip. Normally, if your grip is stock from the factory, you will find there's a lot of "air" between your hand and the grip. Filling this void makes your grip much stronger. Combined with grip tape, it's incredible.

3) Trigger reach. I have very long fingers and like to put almost an extra 1/2" of material on the backstrap of the gun, to make the trigger reach longer.

[R112mercer]

I guess I'm a "squincher". I like to be able to shift my grip on the gun as necessary. All my guns wear the same grips for consistency's sake. I use Eagle's "Classic" grips. They're smooth and feature a palm swell that helps to force a nice high grip.

[pskys2]

I've tried about everything.

I currently use the Miculek grips with Skateboard Tape on the sides, 2/3 way up the weak side and 1/2 up on the strong side. If I don't use grip tape, I seem to notice the gun torques a bit more than I like, but it could all be in my head, I've always liked "Sticky" grips, the checkering on my 1911's always were razor sharp.

The bad thing about Miculek grips is they bang my thumb joint after a lot of shooting, I've been left bleeding at the end of a long practice session.

I've tried the rubber Hogues, with and without the finger grooves and "Reshaped" to my hand, and they are much easier on the hand and "Stickier" in recoil, but Jerry's point about shifting the gun is valid. The grip you get is the one you will use.

I settled on the Miculeks with tape as a compromise. I do like the way they handle under recoil (with tape) and reload (I usually switch hands) and I'm just trying to get a good hard callus at my thumb.

If you don't use the switch hand reload consistenly then the Hogues may be best, IF you can teach yourself to get a "Good" grip before you draw. I don't think either reload technique is faster and I do train with both. If you do reload by switching the gun to your weak hand, then you will be best served with Miculek type grips.

I think in the end it's what you like and practice with.

Dave

[D.carden]

I use Hogues hardwood grips non-fingered grooved.

Like Spook said, there are "gaps to fill", sometimes with all grips.

The finger grooves are out of position where i grip the gun, therefore i need the adjustment capability without the obstructions of the grooves.

I will also re-shape the grip if necessary to custumize it.

[shred]

+1 on what Spook said. I took a revolver class from Jerry once and he say he specifically likes a slick grip in order to shift it around as needed during the COF.. he'll even rub some cornmeal on his hands on the line to make sure. Also remember as somebody said 'shake hands with Jerry and you'll know why the gun doesn't dare move when he shoots'.

[pskys2]

Talking of Reloading a Revolver, I have a copy of the last WS DVD by Saul Kirsch. It's very well put together and quite entertaining and educational.

I timed Jerry Miculek's switch hand reloads against Bjorn Dietrich's same hand reloads during the shoot-offs and guess what, they came out the same (give or take a few thousands).

They both flubbed a couple and each had 1 "Good" Reload of about 2.3 seconds.

The same hand "Looks" faster, the switch hand "Looks" smoother (to me) but they both time out about the same.

At least in my perception.

Ideally we should learn to use both and let the course decide which to use so we don't get close to the 180. Our local club set up an imitation of the Double Tap course where you were handcuffed around a pole. I used the same hand reload technique with no problems, and it felt real natural. But, I usually use the switch hand reload in a course, it just seems more natural.

Dave

[R112mercer]

Talking of Reloading a Revolver,

Ideally we should learn to use both and let the course decide which to use so we don't get close to the 180.

+1 on the uses of the different reloads. I use the same hand technique, but use the switch hands technique when using speedloaders.

I remember shooting the classifier "Mini-mart" and thinking afterward if I had switched hands (and grabbed the moon from the drawer with my right hand) that my run would have been a bit faster, or at least smoother.

Spook, I think you just received one hell of a complement! For somebody to say your reloads were as fast as Jerry's is certainly saying something! Good for you, and I think your performance at the World Shoot backs that up!

[spook]

The same hand "Looks" faster, the switch hand "Looks" smoother (to me) but they both time out about the same.

Dave, I think that accurately describes the difference. The switch hands way gives you more time to do every move you have to do. The same hands way is more critical in the way that you can really mess it up if you make a small mistake.

The reason I chose the same hands way is that it's sometimes better to use in difficult positions and it's hands down better if you have to do it when shooting strong hand only. Also, when just going for all out speed, the same hands way is faster (I think). Anybody know Jerry's or Ricardo's fastest reload ever?

The switch hands way seems way better on the run.

Cool that you can choose which one to do. I can just do one way

Thanks Ron!

Yeah, it's definately a compliment. Jerry is one hell of a shooter. When I saw him shoot the first rounds of the shoot-off I seriously thought I could have him (still want to time our first runs). But he kind of "warmed up" during the shoot-off and in the last rounds I screwed up, but even if I wouldn't have, he was just so much faster. Great guy, great shooter

[pskys2]

Spook,

I think the "Official Record" for Jerry was a 1.48? in a string of 12 rounds. What he's done in practice I don't know. Didn't you say you had a 1.2 last year, that's plain blazing, heck I think it takes longer for a moonclip to "Fall" to the ground!

Looks like the difference between you and Jerry in the shoot offs was the different ways you two shot the plates. I've noticed that Jerry goes full auto (I think that term applies even to a Revolver when shot at that speed) even on plates, misses some but still makes it up. You looked like you were shooting a fast controlled squeeze, like we all try to teach ourselves. Maybe that spicy Cajun food does something for faaaaaaaast twitch muscle fibers!

You need to get the DVD (especially since your in it several times), it is good. Speaking of fast the Open guys Reloads were consistently faster sub 1 second than the standard guys (fastest just over 1.1 seconds). Virtually the same guns (as far as reloads) so why the difference?

[Carmoney]

I used rubber Hogues back when I was big into shooting pins, and so they've always felt "right" to me. When I starting shooting IPSC Revo early last year, I initially had trouble getting a good grip on the draw, and when re-acquiring the grip after the "switch-hands" reload. So I went to the Jerry wood grips for awhile, but found they hurt my thumb joint when shooting major loads. Switched back to rubber Hogues, changed to a "same hand" reload style early this year, tuned up my draw, and it all sorta fell into place. I agree that either reloading style can work very effectively in competition.

I've noticed that Jerry goes full auto (I think that term applies even to a Revolver when shot at that speed) even on plates, misses some but still makes it up.

Back in the day, Jerry shot blazing fast all the time. All the time. (He also "blew out" sometimes and could be beaten sometimes because of it.)

Now he keeps that tremendous speed in reserve most of the time, and pulls it out only when he knows he needs it. The Jerry I saw this past July was much smoother and more controlled than the Jerry I saw at the pin shoots 15 years ago. Which is why he's even tougher to beat now than ever. Put a little pressure on him, though, and he'll show you how he's different than everybody else in the game.

[revchuck]

Grey - I use Craig Spegel Boot Plus grips, mostly smooth and without finger groove. These are kinda like the Miculek grips without the oval shape, more like Skelton style, and they only come about 5/16" below the grip frame. I use speedloaders and switch hands for reloading.

[Headshot45]

I use the nylon Hogues, grind down the finger grooves, build up the right side for a little extra palm swell and wrap it in tennis guaze tape...tactical black, of course....when my hand sweats the tennis tape actually gets sticky.....

Frank

[AlamoShooter]

The grip has got to fit your hand, or close to it to get any speed.

I use a smoth wood grip somthing Like a houge without finger groves.

But mayby I don't know nothing

Edited December 22, 2005 by AlamoShooter

[The Duck]

Hello everyone just started reading this forum. I use the finger grip made by hogue, but I believe that most of your control is from the grip of your weak hand, so if you can get some of the heel of your weak hand on the grip I get better control and accuracy. Dick Thompson builds some nice grips that are longer and he will make them to any size you need. I believe Mike and Dan saw these grips at Area 2. He will be replying to this I am sure, that if he can get away from his shooting sponsor Golden Corral! Hope to see you real gun shooters soon.

Duck

Edited December 22, 2005 by The Duck

[spook]

Spook,

I think the "Official Record" for Jerry was a 1.48? in a string of 12 rounds. What he's done in practice I don't know. Didn't you say you had a 1.2 last year, that's plain blazing, heck I think it takes longer for a moonclip to "Fall" to the ground!

Looks like the difference between you and Jerry in the shoot offs was the different ways you two shot the plates. I've noticed that Jerry goes full auto (I think that term applies even to a Revolver when shot at that speed) even on plates, misses some but still makes it up. You looked like you were shooting a fast controlled squeeze, like we all try to teach ourselves. Maybe that spicy Cajun food does something for faaaaaaaast twitch muscle fibers!

You need to get the DVD (especially since your in it several times), it is good. Speaking of fast the Open guys Reloads were consistently faster sub 1 second than the standard guys (fastest just over 1.1 seconds). Virtually the same guns (as far as reloads) so why the difference?

Yeah I hit a 1.23 some time ago, but no way I can do that on demand

Jerry's strenght is indeed that he can turn his speed up a notch. Also he won the first run against me, but changed his tactics in the 2nd run. He started hosing the big poppers first which totally threw me off, while I was trying to hit the small plate first. This guys doesn't just know how to shoot, but also how to win.

The difference in reload times between the Open guys and the Standard guys could be the difference in target acquisition (dot vs front sight) instead of actual reload time. Also, the funnels on open guns in IPSC are larger than standard class funnels (box rule).

Sorry for the tread drift

[pskys2]

Now Bjorn, you shouldn't even notice what Jerry did until someone raps you on the head, or you finish the round and he's still shooting. Heck, when I'm having a good run I get so tunnel visioned I can't even see my own hands! But, it's easier said than done.

I did notice on the 2nd run that you seemed to hesitate, I wondered if you hadn't peeked.

Still a pretty impressive WS performance.

Have to ask Mike Carmoney what he used to do to block out the others at 2nd chance. They'd have 20 or more, I think, tables going at one time and he made "Master Blaster" status.

The thread drift is my fault, but the open guys were always faster on the reload not necessarily the first shot respectively (seemed to me) but both of your points are valid and do cover it.

I hit a 1.8 reload at 10yds. w/A-C's in practice and I felt like it was flying, then I totally flubbed the rest of the day (trying too hard, no doubt). Heck if I get under 2 sec at any point I'm thrilled. My best on demand is something around 2.2+ sec, though. I do all my reload drills at 10 yards, some even at 15.

Spook, you said you use a lot of grip tape so are we to assume you use wood grips. If so, what type? I have short fingers and an average sized palm, Jerry's grips fit pretty good. II never have had to worry about too much finger in the trigger, even with a 1911.

Dave

[spook]

Have to ask Mike Carmoney what he used to do to block out the others at 2nd chance. They'd have 20 or more, I think, tables going at one time and he made "Master Blaster" status.

The thread drift is my fault, but the open guys were always faster on the reload not necessarily the first shot respectively (seemed to me) but both of your points are valid and do cover it.

I hit a 1.8 reload at 10yds. w/A-C's in practice and I felt like it was flying, then I totally flubbed the rest of the day (trying too hard, no doubt). Heck if I get under 2 sec at any point I'm thrilled. My best on demand is something around 2.2+ sec, though. I do all my reload drills at 10 yards, some even at 15.

Spook, you said you use a lot of grip tape so are we to assume you use wood grips. If so, what type? I have short fingers and an average sized palm, Jerry's grips fit pretty good. II never have had to worry about too much finger in the trigger, even with a 1911.

Dave

Thanks for the kind words Dave . Yeah, I listened to Jerry's hits on the last run But it was only because they were so friggin' fast I couldn't help but listen...

A 1.8s reload is very good! I remember I got a lot faster after I first hit my sub 2 second reload. Kind of a mental thing I guess. I also like to practice my reload drills at a distance. It keeps you focussed on both the relaod AND the shot after the reload.

I use a lot of grip tape, but my grip is not made of wood. My grip started as a factory Pachmayr. I cut the grooves off and trimmed the whole grip with a dremel. I shot that for some time until Saul Kirsch gave me the tip to match my grip to my hand. I then used two-composite epoxy putty to build my grip over the Pachmayr. I slowly added material and the grip works fine. It looks like crap, but it works

I secure the grip tape with superglue.

This is what it looks like:

You're blessed with smaller hands I think. Makes "customizing" your grip so much easier

Edited December 22, 2005 by spook

[Carmoney]

Bjorn, I'm sitting here laughing my ass off at that ugly grip!!

(Consider that a compliment--I've noticed over the years that the best shooters tend to care nothing about keeping their guns looking pretty, and they don't hesitate for a second to cut, grind, and glue on whatever it takes to make the thing work--it's all about function.)

[D.carden]

Spook !!!

That grip looks like the soles off an old pair of my Converse gym shoes!!!

[oldtrooper]

The old black cloth electrical tape is really good. It's getting hard to find because the newer stuff, slick plastic, is the more common. If you can find any give it a try. It is actually a little too stickey at first but with a little use it get jus right.

[spook]

Bjorn, I'm sitting here laughing my ass off at that ugly grip!!

(Consider that a compliment--I've noticed over the years that the best shooters tend to care nothing about keeping their guns looking pretty, and they don't hesitate for a second to cut, grind, and glue on whatever it takes to make the thing work--it's all about function.)

LOL, thanks

Yeah, I guess I don't really care, but I'm still glad I can take them off though

Spook !!!

That grip looks like the soles off an old pair of my Converse gym shoes!!!

The old black cloth electrical tape is really good. It's getting hard to find because the newer stuff, slick plastic, is the more common. If you can find any give it a try. It is actually a little too stickey at first but with a little use it get jus right.

Yeah, one of the problems I had was finding good tape. I got this from a fellow shooter of mine. The stuff is probably 10 years old (or maybe even more). I tried some new kinds of tape. They're usually more adhesive, but tear more easily.

The tape is there because the epoxy part on the back strap broke. The grip is now 3 pieces held together by the tape

[SIX SHOT]

You guys haven't seen ugly until you've seen Rich Bitow's gun, looks like it was forged out of Prince Albert cans & then tastfully gripped with roofing paper. It would take first & second in an ugly contest! It's been ground on, welded on, stepped on & drug behind his Cadillac. The cylinder release is just a little sharper than a razor blade & about the size of a small nail head, but you know what, can he EVER shoot that thing! Oh ya, forgot to mention it does have a small amount of bluing on it...........somewhere!

Dick