SIX SHOT

I shot a 610 for many years & it worked great, I cast my own round nose slugs using a Ballasticast mould, one was a 165 RN, the other & the one I used most was a 205 RN, it loaded very fast, I never felt handicapped using the 40 as opposed to the 45. Dick

Bud Bond was a great guy, always worked harder than anyone else, setting up stages, running matches, loaning guns to new shooters, just a real class act. His first shot from the draw was something special. I remember a couple of years ago at a steel match in Dubois, Wyoming, Bud showed up & entered the open class division with his 8 shot revolver. He went up against a very good group of semi-auto race gun shooters & mowed them down by a very good margin, didn't seem possible, unless you knew the man. He will be dearly missed! Dick

Why can't I bring up the national results? I'm going to the USPSA web site, clicking on the members, then on major matches, nothing! Its showing the single stack results, also the L10 & open nationals, nothing on revolver, production or limited. Need a little help here!! Thanks, Dick

Try using 38 special cases with either primer & 5.2 grs. of W231 with your 358311 slug, this is my everyday plinking load, works great. Dick

There you have it! I've heard the 3 amigos like to talk some smack when the match is running but when its all over they congratulate each other. Seems like Mike has been getting most of the congratulations lately. Good job Mike! Just goes to show you how much the classifiers really mean, you still have to go out there and win. Both Dan & Cliff are GM's and rightfully so & Mike is a little ole Master class shooter & takes no prisoners when the bell sounds. Now if you would just unlimber that 610, think what you could do. Think GM!!!! Also, nice job Sam, looks like the apple didn't fall very far from the tree! Still shooting lead in that 25-2? Dick

Keeper, if this is your primary competition gun & you are serious about branching out & shooting some other matches then have someone work on your gun that will insure that its 100% reliable, you don't want to have your gun down half the time when you could be enjoying a match somewhere. Those mentioned above are very good but bogged down with too much work, you don't want your gun tied up in someone's shop for 6 months. Mike Carmoney is very knowledgeable on the S&W revolvers & the turn around time will be much better than some of those that do it for a living, Mike has a side job so its not like revolvers are his livelehood. You wouldn't be disappointed. Dick

Hi Pat I have an older 6.5 inch 610 hammer mounted firing pin I also believe after talking to JM that it is a broach pulled barrel I have a modern 6.5 inch 610 with the frame mounted firing pin and the barrel is EDM rifled. $600 older gun $500 modern gun Gary Good shooting with you talk to you soon Hello Gary, I'll take the other one if its still for sale. Thanks, Dick

Anyone needing an Ed Brown thumb latch, I have a few left, I did send some to Mike Carmoney. They are $30 each, shipped. These are new, stainless latches. Dick

Well, I predicted 2 out of 3, thats not bad! Mike I had you in 3rd, behind Jerry & I had John instead of that new gunslinger, missed that one. Congratulations to the 3 Amigos & all the revolver shooters & especially to my buddy Kal, he's coming on boys! Looks like friends Kevin & Steve from Colorado also did well. Dick

Magma Engineering in Queen Creek (crick) Arizona makes a wonderful 40 RN mould. From my alloy, wheel weights they fall out at 205 grs, are very accurate with a small amound of WST powder. These were available a while back from Chey-Cast in Cheyenne, Wyoming, don't know if they are still in business though. They recoil very soft. My buddy Mike says they load slow so beware! Also, I'm picking Mike (one of the 3 Amigos) to finish top 3 at nationals. Dick

Mike, I'm going to try and do nationals next year if things work out. I had the heart surgery earlier this year & have since retired, not because of health though. Trying to get my weight down so I'm walking 5-6 miles a day. I plan on another trip to Africa next year, I'm still mad at a 60" Kudu! At the very least some of us Soda Springs boys plan on an Area match back your way, hope to see you then, along with the remainder of the 3 Amigos. Dick

Anyone of the 3 Amigos is capable of that "coveted" runner up spot, I haven't seen Cliff shoot but his experience around the country & out of it (world shoot) could make a difference. Also, I've said before that John Burkholder & Tom Kettells are as good as any, Tom has beaten Rich Bitow several times & if any of you have seen Rich shoot, you will know that is never an easy thing to do. I've seen Dan & Mike shoot & I"m sure they've only gotten better. Young, smart, atheletic, aggressive, confident.............seems like there was something else they wanted me to tell you! Just kidding! Both are really nice guys. So, my prediction, if he is entered, is, John Burkholder in 2nd place. Dick

I have never heard a revolver shooter say anything good about revolver neutral or revolver friendly stages, that isn't why we shoot revolvers. I would rather listen to chess on the radio than go to a match with 6-6-6-6 shot stages! Make it crazy, make it wild, thats why we shoot revolvers & some people never seem to grasp that. Time after time all of us have watched a limited shooter start out with 20-21 rounds in his gun & run it empty on a 15-16 round stage at 12 yds, guess what boys, that ain't shootin'!!!! When a shooter needs 4-5-6 extra rounds to complete a stage, anybody guess what he's doing? Last week at a local match one of the stages was 51 rounds & everybody loved it, thats what makes it fun. Dick

If Sam Keen is for real, then there must be 4 Amigos! Great, but don't leave out Tom Kettells or my buddy John Burkholder, both are the real deal. Wonder what would happen if 3 of the Amigos, plus Jerry, east of the Mississippi shot against 4 from west of the Mississippi, that would be Dan Carden, Tom Kettells, Rich Bitow & John Burkholder! Now boys, that would be a major shootout! Fun to speckulate!!! Rich Bitow is aging & has gimpy knees but when he's hot, he can really run that 25-2 & it is one beautiful gun! Not!!!!!! Dick

The last of the 3 Amigo's just made master! Good job Mike. Without the distraction of school, girls, sports, girls, homework, girls, summerjobs, girls you could end up the first family in the country with 2 revolver masters if young Sam stays focused! Dick

Go with the 625 with the 5" barrel, much easier to load than the 610 & the shorter barrel handles easier in the tight spots, plus the 610's are discontinued at this time and very expensive to buy when you find one. None of the good shooters are using 610's, just too much of a handicap. Dick wear your seat belt, that way you won't have to walk back to the wreck!

I should have know better than trying to argue with a trail lawyer! Yup, Mike you are right about the gun handling qualities when going at warp speed down a hallway, around a barricade,etc. but when you are in your 60's, weigh 280 and your eyes can't see a grasshopper at 50 yds. you will see the 610 has many advantages over the shorter, lighter 625. Again, I would like to see you, Dan or Cliff give one an honest try for a couple of months and you would see for yourself. I also mentioned Tom Kettels in my earlier post but forgot to mention John Burkholder, believe me, he is the real deal, if he goes to nationals it will really be a shootout. One last thing and I'll shut up. It's very important to get as much cylinder chamfer as you possibly can with the 610 & still be safe & reliable. My oldest son is a world class gunsmith, he doesn't do a lot of handgun work, focusing more or high end rifles (money) but he is a very accomplished pistolsmith also. At one time he was the youngest member of the gunmakers guild in the USA. This isn't a plug for my son, he's busier than he wants to be but he did all the work on my 3 610's and those of my shooting buddies and believe me, reloading them isn't a problem. Good luck at nationals, remember what I said about Burkholder. Dick

OK, a couple questions: (1) Who told you your gun is not USPSA legal? Lots of people have opinions on things, but that doesn't mean those opinions are correct. (2) The picture is pretty fuzzy--do those holes in the barrel actually penetrate through to the bore? If so, it's pretty obvious they would be considered porting, and porting has never been allowed in Revo division. If not, I don't see any problem with them. Now, to act as devil's advocate here, and at the risk of frustrating you further, why did you bother doing that to your gun in the first place? One ounce can't possibly make any meaningful difference in the handling of the thing. I can see where taking off the whole underlug would change the dynamics some, but even then all you guys are accomplishing with all this effort is to approximate the handling of a 5" 610 or 625 or a 6.5" 25-2. I know that 5" 610s have become godawful expensive, so I understand the effort to avoid that cost. But are you really that married to the idea of shooting .40/10mm? I mean, it's kinda cool to be different, I suppose, but other than that can anybody articulate one single reason to insist on shooting a 10mm revo in USPSA when the .45 ACP can do everything just as well (and some things better), and you can find the guns for $500 or less all day long? Haven't been able to log on for quite a while, finally got it worked out so I could reply to Mike's comment about the 610's not being competitive with the 625's. I couldn't disagree more. They made a whole lot more 625's than 610's, but the 610 is probably the best kept secret in the revolver division. Those that say different haven't shot them much, if at all. I will concede that its easier to miss an occasional reload with the 610, but 99% of the time the 610 is extremely close to the 625. A few advantages the 610 has over the 625 are: the 610 is more accurate, put them side by side, upside down or weak hand, doesn't matter, the 610 will outshoot the 625. Longer sight radius, this is a huge edge, if you don't agree, shoot a 4" 625 against a 5" 625 and see for yourself, the gun with the longer sight radius will win everytime. Faster recovery from shot to shot. A 4" 610 weighs more than a 5" 625 & the 6 1/2" gun is even heavier, helping to dampen recoil and allow for faster recovery, this is like dropping 3-4 power factor, maybe more. The best way to find out who is the best revolver shooter in a match, regardless of classification is to shoot against other top shooters head to head, the best way to find out which gun/caliber combinination is best, or at least as good, is classifiers. You must shoot accurate & you must reload fast, if you can't then you have no chance of moving up. Ron Ankney of Wyoming is currently ranked 3rd or 4th master with a revolver, guess what caliber he shot all his classifiers with. It was a 4" 610. Besides myself, there are 4 others in our local area that have switched to the 6" 610 & every single one has shot better in the last 2 months than they've ever shot. Kal Kirby had been averaging in the mid 60% for a long time, he switched to the 610 2 months ago & has 2 classifiers in the mid 80%, with several other good ones, if the gun was handicapping him you would have a hard time convincing anyone who's watched him shoot/reload. One of the interesting things about the 40 cal. in revolver is the lack of good, round nose bullets. Thats changed. Magma makes a great 200 gr. RN, actually 205 when I cast it from wheel weights. When I was using a 160 gr. RN I fueled it with 5.1 grs. of WST, when I started using the 205 gr. RN I went all the way down to 3.7 grs. of WST. This load crono'ed 170.6 at Area II last november. The reason is the long bearing surface of this cast slug, its surperbly accurate and in the muzzle heavy 610, as soft as any load you can shoot & still make major. It would be very interesting to see one of the 3 Amigos, Dan, Cliff or Mike, who are probably the TRUE best shooters behind Jerry, although you would have to add Tom Kettels, after 3-4 matches shooting a 6" 610, none of them would go back to the 5" 625, too many disadvantages! Dick

Mike, I'm going to guess Bud Bond. He is an amazing shooter, his first shot out of the holster will humble almost anyone but Jerry. Having said that, I watched Mike Carmoney beat Bud Bond in a sudden death shoot-off at the Rocky Mountain Regional Championships last year, and it wasn't a fluke. I was thumbing through an old Handgunner magazine from 1991 and I saw someone that looked familiar, at first I thought I had seen their picture hanging in the post office down town, but nope, it was Mike Carmoney! He had written an article on shooting bowling pins, very well done. Dick

I think people assume I'm older because I possess wisdom beyond my years and always project a quiet air of mature dignity. Mature, yea that's what that sour smell was. What livestock do you raise? Wait a minute I thought you said "project of quiet manure". Need to put my bifocals on. Forty! I can remember being 40...... I think! Yes, I do, it was 21 years ago! Feels longer than that. I just had heart surgery last week, maybe its time to lose some weight. Happy Birthday Mike, maybe see you in Colorado. Dick

Chey-Cast in Cheyenne, Wyoming makes a wonderful 200 gr. RN using a Magma mould, I have the same mould & they come out 205 grs. using wheel weights. My load in 40 S&W cases is, 3.7 grs. of WST & of course Federal primers, this loads clocks 171 PF out of my 6 1/2" 610 S&W. Dick Wear your seat belt, that way you wouldn't have to walk back to the wreck!

I'm one of those exceptions I guess when it comes to the 610 versus 625. I love my long sight radius 6 1/2" 610 and its always done its part in IPSC competition, although my showing at Area II last november wouldn't turn any heads! I've shot 2 really bad matches in my 3 years competing & that was one of them, but, it wasn't the guns fault. My reloads are very consistent with the 205 gr. RN that I make. You can buy them from Chey-Cast.com in Wyoming, great bullet! Talking to Jerry at Area II, he was very interested in trying a 610 with the 6 1/2" barrel, said they were much more accurate than the 625 and the added weight of the 610 is a plus in recoil control. A 4" 610 weighs more than a 5" 625, the 6 1/2" 610 really tames things down. He said the 625 was starting to wear on him a little. We had 7 revolver shooters at our last match, 6 of the 7 used the 610. I think we will have 9 revolvers this week at Logan, Utah. Who says no one shoots revolvers! Dick

You guys haven't seen ugly until you've seen Rich Bitow's gun, looks like it was forged out of Prince Albert cans & then tastfully gripped with roofing paper. It would take first & second in an ugly contest! It's been ground on, welded on, stepped on & drug behind his Cadillac. The cylinder release is just a little sharper than a razor blade & about the size of a small nail head, but you know what, can he EVER shoot that thing! Oh ya, forgot to mention it does have a small amount of bluing on it...........somewhere! Dick

Two of the things you mentioned! grip & girlfriend, that always effects a person's shooting! Dick