Question About Rule Change and Reloading?

[OSP737]

I shot at one club that says due to the recent rule changes, we can now reload once our magazine is empty but we still have a round in the chamber.  We are dropping an empty magazine but we are not at slide lock.  Another club said, nope, you have to be at slide lock with the magazine empty before you can reload.  If the description of the scenario does not say "reload at slide lock, can we reload with a round in the chamber?  I didn't think there was much difference, but after reloading a few times with a round in the chamber I really like doing it that way, where the situation fits.  Opinions?

[Mike62]

You can reload with one in the chamber as long as you are behind cover.

[Jim Watson]

The slide lock reload is "preferred" but no longer mandatory.

I like the loaded chamber (empty magazine) reload, that is what Jeff Cooper said to do.

 

On the walkthrough, I look to see if the stage starts with five reasonably open targets to be hit twice.  If so, I will do a loaded chamber reload.  If there is a Popper or a tough shot that would call for an insurance shot, making for an odd number of rounds, I will go ahead and shoot dry.

I even have magazines marked, this one will seat easily under a closed slide, that one won't. 

[Racinready300ex]

The club saying you can't is doing it wrong.

[Thomas H]

8 hours ago, OSP737 said:

I shot at one club that says due to the recent rule changes, we can now reload once our magazine is empty but we still have a round in the chamber.  We are dropping an empty magazine but we are not at slide lock.  Another club said, nope, you have to be at slide lock with the magazine empty before you can reload.  If the description of the scenario does not say "reload at slide lock, can we reload with a round in the chamber?  I didn't think there was much difference, but after reloading a few times with a round in the chamber I really like doing it that way, where the situation fits.  Opinions?

 

As someone has already said, the club that is telling you that the gun has to be completely empty is wrong.

 

In addition, with respect to the comment in bold:  The WSB can't over-ride the rules.  They can't tell you that you can only reload the gun at slide-lock.  The rules say that the magazine must either be empty, or retained.  That's it. 

 

In addition, a WSB can't specifically require you to reload during a course of fire.

 

6.5.24 Reloads shall not be mandated in a Course of Fire. All mandated reloads, topping off, etc. must be performed off the clock.

 

The only way to make people reload at a certain point is to require them to start with a downloaded magazine.  And they can't tell you what kind of reload to perform when you do so.

[Jim Watson]

Right.  Our MD has often started the first warmup stage with 3 in the gun.

I think I was the first to catch on to the new ability to fire two, reload, and shoot the rest of the array with never a slide lock.  

[OSP737]

Well, I guess that pretty well answers my question, thanks guys!

[dwbethue]

On 4/27/2023 at 5:47 AM, Mike62 said:

You can reload with one in the chamber as long as you are behind cover.

*1) As long as you are behind cover or 2) if the stage has no cover positions it is also allowed at any time per 3.4.6, 3.5.7.1, and 3.5.11.2.

 

The no cover is an important distinction in the new rules as if there is no cover on a stage then any kind of reload may be performed at any time, even if you are exposed to unengaged targets. However if a single point of cover exists anywhere on the stage then ONLY emergency (empty chamber) reloads can be performed while exposed to targets without receiving a penalty. Vision barriers do not keep a shooter from being exposed to targets, so even "surprise" targets can create exposure under the new rules.

Edited May 8, 2023 by dwbethue
Clarification

[JWhit]

12 hours ago, dwbethue said:

*1) As long as you are behind cover or 2) if the stage has no cover positions it is also allowed at any time per 3.4.6, 3.5.7.1, and 3.5.11.2.

 

The no cover is an important distinction in the new rules as if there is no cover on a stage then any kind of reload may be performed at any time, even if you are exposed to unengaged targets. However if a single point of cover exists anywhere on the stage then ONLY emergency (empty chamber) reloads can be performed while exposed to targets without receiving a penalty. Vision barriers do not keep a shooter from being exposed to targets, so even "surprise" targets can create exposure under the new rules.

You can conduct a reload with one in the chamber while at a position of cover and engaging targets in tactical priority. Technically, you are exposed to unengaged targets while doing this, so it needs to be clarified.  

[Jim Watson]

1 hour ago, JWhit said:

Technically, you are exposed to unengaged targets while doing this,

 

No, you are in a position of COVER.  If you are "slicing the pie" properly, you are not "exposed" to the unengaged targets available from there.  

[JWhit]

1 minute ago, Jim Watson said:

 

No, you are in a position of COVER.  If you are "slicing the pie" properly, you are not "exposed" to the unengaged targets available from there.  

Ok I understand what you wrote now. Was just confused with how you described it.  What about if you encounter a position considered "in the open", such as shooting targets through a port less than 24" wide with no cover line? Would you have to slide lock then if a reload was necessary to complete the target engagements? 

[Jim Watson]

I would expect to have to shoot to slidelock through a narrow port without fault line.

 

Our MD likes to mess with us by putting up "vision barriers".

The dance people were doing Saturday to let them reload while moving to get a line of fire on targets behind a "vision barrier" was amusingly gamey.  

[ddc]

1 hour ago, Jim Watson said:

I would expect to have to shoot to slidelock through a narrow port without fault line.

 

 

 

I assumed you would not... lol...

 

I assumed that when shooting through the less than 24" port you were automatically in cover even though a fault line was not required. The rule doesn't make sense to me otherwise.

[Jim Watson]

Rule Zero:  Ask the SO what he wants you to do and then do it as fast as you can.

I like shooting IDPA but some of the whiners and bitchers are right, things are not as clear as they should be. 

[k80clay]

I always thought if you were in the open you had to go to slide lock. You could advance to cover with one chambered as long as you don’t expose yourself to targets. Rules may have changed. IDPA will tell you what’s added, but they don’t tell you what they took out. A simple rule change of “no bullets on the ground” would simplify things greatly while still keeping the spirit of the self defense ideals.