Flexmoney Posted November 16, 2001 Share Posted November 16, 2001 The question is often asked..."Can such and such gun get me to 'x' class?", or... "Do I need to spend $2,000 to compete?" I know of a couple of shooters (on this board) that have now made it to B class using a Glock. As one of them, I can tell you that if anything slows my progress toward A class...it won't be the Glock trigger or recoil. I feel that the most important aspects for me to think about while moving up will be: smoothness, movement, target transition, reloads and INDEX...and having the visual patience to let the shot loose when all is right. (OK...some strong/weak hand stuff too...damn standards) I might switch guns sometime (I like nice toys too), but I feel I need more work than my gun does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 16, 2001 Author Share Posted November 16, 2001 O.K., What I really am saying is this: For the shooter out there that thinks he/she has gone as far as they can go. That the only way they can move up is to "buy" their way up with better equipment... To that shooter I say this...keep thinking that way and you will be passed up. While you are waiting for your new gun to come in, some guy in Mississippi will be closing his eyes and indexing his gun on dots on the wall, another guy in Wyoming will be doing head shots while moving at 25 yards, somebody in West Virginia will be practicing his draw and reloads until his Berretta is nothing but bare metal. For every shooter that looks out the window and thinks it is to cloudy to shoot, there will be somebody in Arizona blasting away in the desert heat...another in Seattle shooting away in the rain. Me, I'll probably still be sitting at this stupid computer hits all the wrong keys...I think I'll go shoot. Have a nice weekend. Kyle F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted November 16, 2001 Share Posted November 16, 2001 Agreed. While I don't have any delusions of making GM with my G19 (hopefully I'll wear it out before then), it certainly in no way is an inhibiting factor right now. It's funny, when I'm "on," it's like the gun isn't there. I don't know quite how to explain it. I see the front sight, but the trigger, the grip and everything else just kind of vanishes somewhere into the background. That's why I stopped trying to "fix" the gun. If it's indiscernable while I'm shooting, what's the point? It's just spending money to spend money. I think I'm going to see how far this little puppy can take me... Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted November 16, 2001 Share Posted November 16, 2001 If you were to watch Chris (cpty1) shoot a Glock you would lose all doubt about the guns ability to take a person to master class. I'm not going to shoot mine in Limited but I plan on shooting it a bunch in Production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpty1 Posted November 16, 2001 Share Posted November 16, 2001 SS, I'm going to have to talk to your "much better half" about keeping you out of the sauce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Sharp Posted November 16, 2001 Share Posted November 16, 2001 Excellent post Chris, the second one brought "it" all together. This echoes a mantra my wrestling coach used to say, you'll pay the price one way or another, its better to pick how you'll pay than be told how you'll pay. He always said this in response to questions about how to get better. Simple answer, train. Not newer, better shoes, unheard of techniques..., just train. Funny how the fundamental work ethic found in all sports carries over to the shooting sports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skeeter Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 I know that glocks can do you just fine! I love my 24 and wouldn't give it up.( unless someone would pay to shoot something else) the only thing keeping me from A class or master is me. I just don't have the time or money or I'm not willing to send what I have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icer Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 I started shooting IPSC last July with my Glock 23. I switched to a Glock 35 in October '00. I classed B Limited last October with the 23 and made A Limited in five months with the 35. I shot my first major pistol match in July, the Area 1 in Marysville, and took second in A class. I also managed to win a stage. This was all done with a mildly modified Glock that has gotten me more grief from fellow shooters than I care to remember. This gun is more accurate than I am by a long shot and the only reason my splits aren't faster is because I don't practice them. I went into this game with a strong desire to beat my local competitors. I received advice from them to the effect that I should shoot slow and try to get good hits........I said screw it and went for speed. I wanted to know if I could run a stage as fast as the hot Open guys. When I proved to myself that I had the speed I throttled back a bit and went to work on the basics. Never once did the Glock fail or hold me back. Most every competitor in my local club that started about the time I did has switched to a more expensive gun. They have all slowed their progress by continually screwing with their equipment hoping to find a magical solution. It's not out there. My best advice for new shooters, and shooters who want to improve quickly, is to practice with the top shooters in your club. Pick their brains and copy their moves.......without bugging the crap out of them. Quit squadding with your regular shooting buddies every time and go hang out with the old guys who intimidated the hell out of you when you first joined "their" club. They usually drop pearls of wisdom all over the place. Become a big fish in your small pond and then go find the ocean. When I go to another club I find out who the hot shooters are and try to squad with them. That's how I got to know Erik Warren and some of the other fast Northern California shooters. Most of all forget about the equipment........a Glock won't hold you back........but an uncompetitive attitude will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted November 17, 2001 Share Posted November 17, 2001 I sticking with my G20 for now. Maybe an STI "EDGE" might prove to be a better tool to punch accurate holes in paper, but many of the dudes who drive these expensive guns end up below GlockJocks on the score sheet anyway. It's just so much darn fun getting the "equipment race" shooters in a tiff when the ugly Glock comes out on top. I'll bet most of us Glock shooters have always cheered for the under-dog. There's winning a match, then there's winning a match with a Glock! I love it! It's like a match within a match. Most shooters are NOT impressed when they see another shooter strap on his/her plastic gun. Then, after you smoke 'em on a couple stages they want to know all about your gun. As if you have a secret weapon......... ...maybe we do...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted November 18, 2001 Share Posted November 18, 2001 Nine years ago when I was a newbie newspaper photographer I decided to emulate my latest "Photo-Guru" by duplicatin his lens selection. So I marched off to the camera store, traded in all of my lenses and left with five new lenses. On the way to the office, I stopped and photographed a car accident. I spent the better part of an hour and about six rolls of film shooting the crash from all angles with all of my new lenses. When the film came out of the processor I asked my guru to have a look and to give me his opinion. "Looks like you used every lens in your bag and still didn't produce a good picture because you were to busy trying to figure out how to use all your new equipment," he said. I never forgot that! I've gone back to the Glock for limited and think I'll stick with it until it holds me back. When that occurs I'll have to do some soulsearching to see if it's the equipment or me..... and I suspect it'll be me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith24 Posted January 6, 2002 Share Posted January 6, 2002 Alvin York overcame 128 German soldiers with a Springfield 06 (copy of a Mauser) and a GI45. Guts, training, attitude, and desire. We Americans put too much faith in equipment and not ourselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 I really enjoyed this thread. Having first competed with my Glock 19 in an IPSC level 2 match not knowing standard div was where the 'tuned high-end 1911 guns are gonna be (But still ended no. 52 out of 90+ shooters, not bad for a first time, I guess ) Now knowing that one can be a winner with a G17 in a WorldShoot, I wonder if anything much would ever change to what everybody has posted here....hmmm. I guess a glock will be good enough if you can be good enough. (Edited by mcoliver at 12:35 am on Oct. 2, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRNinTX Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 My 13 yr old shoots a G34 in Production and can shoot with the GMs on speed shoots. He hasn't quite figured out the strategy part on field courses yet! At our last local match he had a .85 draw to A on one stage and at the Tri State a .95 draw from a sitting position. He dry fires every day and is now trying to save his money to build a plastic Open gun. Claims he wants to be the first to Jr GM shooting a Glock. I agree that its not the gun, but the dedication behind the triggger. Tiger Woods could beat 99% of the golfers with thier whiz bang, graphite shaft, extra long, no miss hit, $500/club golf clubs with an off the shelf set of clubs from K-Mart! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 Excellent, excellent, excellent!!! A junior Glock GM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 2, 2002 Author Share Posted October 2, 2002 Wow...I shot that match. I doubt I had anything close to those draws speeds...out of my Limited gear! Time to start working on getting in and out of shooting positions...reducing wasted motion and such. Hope he makes it. Let me know if I can help in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 We had a term for these kids in motorcycle racing... Pimple-Faced Rockets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 The great thing about kids starting any sport, is that they simply don't know that certain stuff can't be done. I think it's the absence of mental boundaries that really lets them excel. I had a great prof in college who used to say that if we truly want to learn, we need to allow ourselves to experience the world like children. Go get 'em!! E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B.J. Norris Posted October 2, 2002 Share Posted October 2, 2002 OK, here I am, looks like I got a few thank yous in line. Flex, Thanks, I take checks, cash, money orders, however no major credit cards unless you just wanna give me the whole card . Sorry we missed you at the Tri-state. Erik, I keep my face as clear as I can. Now, if I can jst talk dad into that $1500 Open gun.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted October 3, 2002 Share Posted October 3, 2002 You got it kid! Keep up the good blasting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 I think that if you want you can make M/GM with (shudder) a Glock. I do think you give up a little trigger quality and accuracy to a 1911 and if you need that 2% to get you over the top, then hello Mr Browning. It would take a lot of time to adjust to the new gun. As the wise man said "beware of the man who owns only one gun" The idea that you can buy a M card is a stupid one voiced by people who will probably never get one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 Sinse this idea of a "good enough" gun comes up so much, I have a question. (possibly rhetorical) How would one know if the gun was holding them back? For a gun to hold one back, I would think it would fit these guidelines: 1. It is unreliable 2. It is mechanically incapable of splits below .2 3. It is mechanically incapable of an A hit at 25 yds. 4. Its design severely handicaps holster choice in a given division. 5. It is overly ammo-sensitive. 6. It is too fragile to withstand hard practice. 7. It holds less rds than the division allows. 8. Its design limits reasonable accessory choices. 9. Just for fun, is it a revolver? Most of the guns we debate as being good or not good enough will pass this test with powder burns in all classes but open. Much as I love my docter beretta, I have no illusions about it being a serious open gun. It fails 7 and 8 of my rules. What do you think? SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 Nothing counts unless you have mastered the fundanmentals. You have to assume the guns both work, hit a 3 inch group and ammo and holster etc. is out of the equation. I can beat Robbie any day that his gun doesn't work. Now that you are a master of fundanmentals remember that one little glitch(hesitation, makeup shot, loosing a target, etc) will negate the speed and accuracy difference between a Glock and a $4000 Open gun,all other things being equal. Thats why BamBam talks about competition being so fierce in Open at high levels. The gun is for all intensive purposes out of the equation. Its the shooter. Back to, do you need a SV/STI/Para to make Master class Limited? No but I do. Its a comfort level as well as my "error or group" at 20 yards is half of a Glock/Beretta Etc. Don't forget accessories and Tung parts are more prevelant. Doesn't count for near as much though. That's enough for me to get one. I have yet to shoot to my or its potential. Its my Open training coming out. Any advantage, even very small, counts at high levels. Shooting it very well requires practice and we will see on that one. I can only have 1 mistress. You very right that its often a self limiting perception of "I need a S_I to win". I think there is validity in that perception in Limited class. The top GM's can shoot any gun they want. What do they shoot? Now they have mastered fundamentals. Most of us have NOT so the gun is not yet in the equation. Translation is If you practice with any type of gun you will get better. If you practice better and more then you will beat everybody reguardless of their or your equipment. The 2% difference doesn't mean a thing if you run past a target and return quickly. The best comps knock say .5 sec off a stage. You just blew 3 secs or more with any glitches. Even less time still adds up with 10 stages. Steve, Don't worry if I see you being held back by equipment, I will say something. Even if you are beating me. Hey guys got to dream huh? (Edited by BSeevers at 8:33 am on Oct. 4, 2002) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 Good stuff, we can't forget the psychological advantages and disadvantages of equip. choice, either. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 4, 2002 Author Share Posted October 4, 2002 I'd hope to be able to pipe in with some numbers...but my tests got rained out by the time I made it to the range today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted October 4, 2002 Share Posted October 4, 2002 Kyle Numbers? PS Get ready everybody. I think I need to buy a Glock. everybody need one don't they? "Burrrrr Its cold said Lucifer" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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