S&W 625-8 Firing pin bushing - normal?

[bigdog02]

Hey guys, 

 

I ran my 625-8 (JM) at a big IDPA match this past weekend.  About 200 rounds or so fired.
Got home and cleaned it up like normal and wanted to get input from the more seasoned S&W guys here.
I never noticed this when cleaning or shooting it previously.  Maybe it was there to start with and I just never saw it?

I only shoot factory 45acp, no reloads or anything - this match was all PMC Bronze.

Only oddity in the match was 1 light primer strike but it smacked the primer pretty hard and it did not go so could be just bad luck and a lighter primer hit.

Here is what it looks like - seems like it is sitting low in the pocket - like sagging.  It is flush with the frame and is not sticking up at all.

 

For reference here is my 625PC.

Edited February 28, 2023 by bigdog02

[Toolguy]

Looks fine to me. Probably (maybe?) the primer wasn't seated all the way in on that one round. The main thing is how far does the firing pin stick out when the hammer is all the way down? It should be about the thickness of a dime.

[bigdog02]

Ask and ye shall receive.

 

 

"Light" strike on the left.  All 199ish pieces of other brass on right.

 

In my first post - that dark spot right beside the firing pin hole at about the 11 o clock position is a tiny nick in the metal.

 

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by bigdog02

[Toolguy]

That firing pin might be a bit short. I would take it out and measure it. A lot of factory firing pins are too short. You want a minimum of .495. I like mine in the .505 range.  You might try the misfire one another time or two and see if it goes off.

[Carmoney]

Bushing looks normal to me also.  (If not, they can be easily punched out and replaced.)

[radny97]

Just grab a pack of extended firing pins from TK Custom. I dry fire enough that they break every 5000 rounds on me so I keep a spare in the range bag. 

[bigdog02]

Much appreciated guys - thank you!  I am going to assume it was like this before the match and I just did not notice it.  Odd that it looks different than the 625PC, but the gun runs well.

The gun ran lights out on a hard match and it obviously was working fine since I finished third behind a couple Master REV guys lol.

FYI firing pin when in the fired position is exactly the width of a dime.  The very tip of the rounded point of the firing pin is flush with the edge of the dime.  Next time I have the gun open, I will do an actual measurement.  I have Apex extended firing pins here and some factory firing pins floating around here too.

 

[Carmoney]

1 minute ago, radny97 said:

Just grab a pack of extended firing pins from TK Custom. I dry fire enough that they break every 5000 rounds on me so I keep a spare in the range bag. 

Anything that breaks so frequently has no place in my competition set-up!

[radny97]

Well 5000 rounds equates to probably 120,000 dry fire trigger pulls, or more. Dry fire a Glock that many times and see what happens. Something will break. My factory OEM pins broke several times too before I switched over to TK custom because they last longer. 

[MWP]

11 hours ago, radny97 said:

Well 5000 rounds equates to probably 120,000 dry fire trigger pulls, or more. Dry fire a Glock that many times and see what happens. Something will break. My factory OEM pins broke several times too before I switched over to TK custom because they last longer. 

No I don’t think that’s right. 

[gargoil66]

15 hours ago, bigdog02 said:

Ask and ye shall receive.

 

 

"Light" strike on the left.  All 199ish pieces of other brass on right.

 

In my first post - that dark spot right beside the firing pin hole at about the 11 o clock position is a tiny nick in the metal.

 

 

BD2:

 

I think you just had a factory load whose primer was not seated deeply enough.  It appears the firing pin struck and bent the primer into a very shallow cone shape.  I would not sweat it but would not be happy to have it happen in a match.  

 

BITD PMC was known for some really hard primers too.  They would also crimp the primer into the case which appears to be your situation.  Didn't even know they made .45 ACP.

 

Excellent pictures too!  

 

GG

Edited February 28, 2023 by gargoil66

[pskys2]

1 hour ago, MWP said:

No I don’t think that’s right. 

I'd think 5,000 dry fires equals multiples of live fire, say 3 to 1?  So 5,000 dry fires would equal 15,000 live fires IMHO.

[MWP]

4 hours ago, pskys2 said:

I'd think 5,000 dry fires equals multiples of live fire, say 3 to 1?  So 5,000 dry fires would equal 15,000 live fires IMHO.

I just don’t think a Glock should break after 5k live and 120k dry.

 

I don’t really shoot anything but revolvers, but the g34 I don’t shoot is probably over 120k live and 2-4 times that dry.
 

I’ve been beating on the same 929 for a lot longer that that, and other than breaking something completely unrelated to live and dry fire, it’s fine. 

[CtYankee]

The headspace on a revolver (with the cylinder held all the way forward) should be between .008"-.012", and the firing pin protrusion .025".  When a round fires the primer backs out of the pocket all the way to the recoil shield and then the case comes back and reseats it. To put this in context of a "light" strike, when a round goes off, the dent the firing pin makes in the primer is the full length of it's protusion -.025"; when the primer doesn't go off the firing pin dent is .017" - .013". So the dent in your misfire looks just fine to me. Blame the ammo not the gun.

 

[testosterone]

On 2/28/2023 at 1:10 AM, radny97 said:

Well 5000 rounds equates to probably 120,000 dry fire trigger pulls, or more

I think, counterintuitively maybe, dry firing a revolver is more abusive the firing pin than live ammo is.

I gotta alot of work to do to get to mwp numbers, but experience is similar, the only difference being i have broken c&s pins, two of them.

My apex comp pins(the pointy one they dont make anymore) nor any factory pin have ever broken.

They will now of course, but so far so good.

And if you break a glock dry firing it before the heat death of the universe, it was a lemon and not representative of them in general...

[Makicjf]

I bent a C&S pin.  I think the spring was to light and retraction was slow.  

I'm fearful of saying it, but all of my revo's have Apex extended pins and , as of Pendulum dry fire last night, have never been a problem.

*I'll now go order a few spares and stow them in my range bag*

Jason

[gargoil66]

46 minutes ago, Makicjf said:

I bent a C&S pin.  I think the spring was to light and retraction was slow.  

I'm fearful of saying it, but all of my revo's have Apex extended pins and , as of Pendulum dry fire last night, have never been a problem.

*I'll now go order a few spares and stow them in my range bag*

Jason

J:

 

Now you went and done it!  Will probably break the firing pin in the next ten shots.

 

The 627-5 I ended up sending to TK used to break firing pins every 500 rounds live or so.  Have broken every brand of extended firing pin with that revolver.

 

Sent it to TK, got it fixed and have shot about 700 rounds live -- probably 2500 dry -- with no problems.  They said they did something to the firing pin hole.  Also got the firing pin spring back in a little bag of parts they removed so they changed it.  

 

Has me thinking why the extended firing pins are so prone to breaking.

 

BTW -- this 627 is a very early model and the firing pin retention pin goes downwards from the back of the top strap and under the rear sight.  To remove it means taking off the rear sight, invert the revolver, depress the firing pin a tiny bit, and tap the bottom of the trigger guard with a mallet until that pin protrudes enough to grab it with a wrench and pull it out.  I have to put it in a vice to hold it so I can depress the firing pin and tap at the same time.  Can not fathom the genius who thought that was a good design.

 

What every TK did to it, it is working way better than I expected.  

 

GG

[testosterone]

36 minutes ago, gargoil66 said:

Has me thinking why the extended firing pins are so prone to breaking.

the spring you mean? 

 

Seemingly and anecdotally at least, they only break when they fall on a empty cylinder,  my working theory on why the C&S pins break is that spring provided is so light it does not provide enough dampening when its falling on nothing.

 

carmony has posted here countless times that aftermarket pins are the problem, the factory pin is the best and if the gun won't go off with the factory pin but will with an aftermarket, there is something else wrong, its not the pin.   he's probably right.

 

I am not aware of anyone breaking a factory pin, you indicate you have though?  that would be a first.

[GeorgeD]

I can’t speak to the bushing, fp or your gun…

But since my dept has switched to pmc for training ammo, we have seen a huge increase in light strikes . Pmc bronze 45 out of our g21s.
We are seeing multiple light strikes in every training block , almost all of them will ignite with a second strike.

 

FWIW

 

[gargoil66]

2 hours ago, testosterone said:

the spring you mean? 

 

Seemingly and anecdotally at least, they only break when they fall on a empty cylinder,  my working theory on why the C&S pins break is that spring provided is so light it does not provide enough dampening when its falling on nothing.

 

carmony has posted here countless times that aftermarket pins are the problem, the factory pin is the best and if the gun won't go off with the factory pin but will with an aftermarket, there is something else wrong, its not the pin.   he's probably right.

 

I am not aware of anyone breaking a factory pin, you indicate you have though?  that would be a first.

TT:

 

Negative.  Have not broken a factory firing pin in a revolver.  All were after market extended pins.

 

I believe you are correct about the firing pin return spring.  Not strong enough and the pin will take a beating like dry firing on an empty chamber.

 

GG

[bigdog02]

6 hours ago, GeorgeD said:

I can’t speak to the bushing, fp or your gun…

But since my dept has switched to pmc for training ammo, we have seen a huge increase in light strikes . Pmc bronze 45 out of our g21s.
We are seeing multiple light strikes in every training block , almost all of them will ignite with a second strike.

 

FWIW

 

Excellent info.  
Knowing a big match was coming, I had a bunch of PMC to practice with and to take to the match, so that is what it was.  Right now it seems S&B and Blazer are cheaper and more available so for the rest of the season for any big matches it will be one of those I think.

 

I love this forum so much - so much experience floating around to help out all revolver shooters.  Much appreciated!