Slow250 Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 Report on the Henning pads: they work as described. No over-insertion. I had a couple failure to feeds, which look similar initially, but clear easily with a pull of the slide. When I had over insertion it was a much harder lock. I have an RA number, but based on the feedback of guys getting their guns back without issues fixed I'll probably just continue to work it on my own. Giving the gun back for a month or two for no resolution is sub-optimal. I have the reduced power spring/guide rod from Canik already. I'll probably have the barrel reamed by Patriot Defense. I'm hoping that will be the end of issues and I can just shoot the gun. If/when that happens I'll be looking forward to reading how Canik has fixed the issues and the next one just runs out of the gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
partyboy424 Posted August 8, 2023 Share Posted August 8, 2023 53 minutes ago, Slow250 said: Report on the Henning pads: they work as described. No over-insertion. I had a couple failure to feeds, which look similar initially, but clear easily with a pull of the slide. When I had over insertion it was a much harder lock. I have an RA number, but based on the feedback of guys getting their guns back without issues fixed I'll probably just continue to work it on my own. Giving the gun back for a month or two for no resolution is sub-optimal. I have the reduced power spring/guide rod from Canik already. I'll probably have the barrel reamed by Patriot Defense. I'm hoping that will be the end of issues and I can just shoot the gun. If/when that happens I'll be looking forward to reading how Canik has fixed the issues and the next one just runs out of the gate. May be sooner than you think. I have so many extra parts here and on order and am determined to make it 100 percent reliable. Figured I'd get a second one, so I can have one setup for Production and one setup for Carry Optics. Emailed my guy today and he responded "The Sku has been pulled from all my distributors and the rumor is that a refresh or new sku is incoming" Take that for what it's worth. Could be as simple as they're changing the sku to have 3 mags instead of two or something, but my hope is that they've milled the slide, fixture the over insertion, improved the extractor and lightened the striker spring... might be asking for a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0724_1030 Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 Received my Rival-S back from Century Arms this afternoon - 4 weeks including shipping both ways, which they covered. They replaced both sets of basepads and installed a new guide rod assembly. The new basepads are thicker and do not allow the magazine to be over inserted. Not sure what weight spring is on the new “H” guide rod but it’s definitely heavier. No significant change in the over insertion of magazines with extended basepads. I did not expect them to resolve this issue and do not fault them entirely. If I like the pistol and it proves reliable, I’ll pick up Hennings or TFs and carry on. The new plastic basepads have the same half moon cut out as the aluminum basepads below. New on the left, old on the right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeK1 Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 The problem is not the mags, and all the fixes are not fixing the root cause; they are just working around the problem. You don't need to grind or "tune" your mags, you don't need special mags base pads, or O-rings, or any other gimmicks. The problem is that the striker block plunger is too wide. the mag when pushed up is riding on the plunger. It is difficult to diagnose because the plunger is hardened chrome, and it is difficult to see that there is any interfering marks on it. All you have to do is remove the plunger and Dremel an angle on it - presto, totally fixed; all mags work, regardless of what base pads you use; with or without the magwell... You should remove the plunger to put the bevel on it. It is held in place by the extractor, which is held in place by a spring-loaded pin... Careful taking it apart; there are 3 small springs involved. Guarantee that this will fix all these problems... You're welcome... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpm2953 Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 4 hours ago, JoeK1 said: The problem is not the mags, and all the fixes are not fixing the root cause; they are just working around the problem. You don't need to grind or "tune" your mags, you don't need special mags base pads, or O-rings, or any other gimmicks. The problem is that the striker block plunger is too wide. the mag when pushed up is riding on the plunger. It is difficult to diagnose because the plunger is hardened chrome, and it is difficult to see that there is any interfering marks on it. All you have to do is remove the plunger and Dremel an angle on it - presto, totally fixed; all mags work, regardless of what base pads you use; with or without the magwell... You should remove the plunger to put the bevel on it. It is held in place by the extractor, which is held in place by a spring-loaded pin... Careful taking it apart; there are 3 small springs involved. Guarantee that this will fix all these problems... You're welcome... My gun doesn’t have that notch milled out in the slide. Yours must be a newer model? Basically right where your arrow is pointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeK1 Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 (edited) Yes, mine is a newer gun... Apparently Canik now mills out that area to try to prevent the problem. They also should have changed the design of the plunger. At first I tried "tuning" the mags by putting a slight angle on the right rear feed lip area. That improved the issue, but I could still get it to drag somewhat on the slide/plunger. Now with the bevel put on the plunger, all mag configurations work flawlessly, even brand new mags. Joe K1 Edited August 31, 2023 by JoeK1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermes_actual Posted August 31, 2023 Author Share Posted August 31, 2023 7 hours ago, JoeK1 said: The problem is not the mags, and all the fixes are not fixing the root cause; they are just working around the problem. You don't need to grind or "tune" your mags, you don't need special mags base pads, or O-rings, or any other gimmicks. The problem is that the striker block plunger is too wide. the mag when pushed up is riding on the plunger. It is difficult to diagnose because the plunger is hardened chrome, and it is difficult to see that there is any interfering marks on it. All you have to do is remove the plunger and Dremel an angle on it - presto, totally fixed; all mags work, regardless of what base pads you use; with or without the magwell... You should remove the plunger to put the bevel on it. It is held in place by the extractor, which is held in place by a spring-loaded pin... Careful taking it apart; there are 3 small springs involved. Guarantee that this will fix all these problems... You're welcome... Interesting. Thanks for posting this. Would you please post a photo of the plunger side view after grinding or a side view indicating what to remove? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisexv6 Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 48 minutes ago, hermes_actual said: Interesting. Thanks for posting this. Would you please post a photo of the plunger side view after grinding or a side view indicating what to remove? This. Im not sure if the need is to mill the "end" of the plunger as we see it, or the notch that is in the plunger. My slide has the milled "slot" that lines up with the plunger. The plunger on mine is no where near interfering with that slot, unless the slot needs to be deeper (maybe they are milling it out deeper on newer guns?). Label on the case of mine was 1/23/23, so January of this year. The over-insertion does hang the slide up, and when Ive re-created it, a small mark is left at the beginning of that milled slot that passes thru the plunger. So to me, it seems the front of that slot could/should be bevelled to help the mag clear...or if it can be milled slightly deeper without making extra holes in the slide, that would be a permanent fix as well. Someone did some measuring on Reddit and found its a matter of something like 0.2mm, so very very little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeK1 Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 (edited) I took about 30 thousanths off the plunger, at somewhat of an angle. To see if it the plunger on your gun that is causing the problem, just remove it completely and give it a try. If it solves the problem, bevel and reinstall; if not, just reinstall... Joe K Edited August 31, 2023 by JoeK1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SufferInSilence Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 1 hour ago, JoeK1 said: I took about 30 thousanths off the plunger, at somewhat of an angle. To see if it the plunger on your gun that is causing the problem, just remove it completely and give it a try. If it solves the problem, bevel and reinstall; if not, just reinstall... Joe K Does it absolutely have to be removed to dremel the area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob1230 Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 I just received a brand new Rival-S via warranty replacement for failure to feed which may very well have been this same issue. I cannot reproduce the issue on the new Rival-S, so it appears they have fixed the issue. Here's a side by side with another Rival-S on the left. The channel running across the plunger is definitely wider on the new Rival-S on the right. I cannot find any other discernable differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SufferInSilence Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 @Bob1230 Does it seem to be that they are just using a new style plunger, or they did some geometry on the inside of the gun also? It would be great if a new plunger is the all time fix. ‘Fingers crossed’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpm2953 Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 I was going to mill that slot in my slide but just modified my mags. Might still stick it in the lathe and try it. Mine has no slot at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisexv6 Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 13 minutes ago, SufferInSilence said: @Bob1230 Does it seem to be that they are just using a new style plunger, or they did some geometry on the inside of the gun also? It would be great if a new plunger is the all time fix. ‘Fingers crossed’. I dont think they changed the plunger because it looks like they widened the slot to the "barrel" side of the slide. Note the tiny sliver of material on the left side (looking at the pics) of the updated slot, versus the original. Its probably not that hard to match with a Dremel or maybe even a lot of hand filing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob1230 Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 1 hour ago, SufferInSilence said: @Bob1230 Does it seem to be that they are just using a new style plunger, or they did some geometry on the inside of the gun also? It would be great if a new plunger is the all time fix. ‘Fingers crossed’. I can't tell any difference in the plunger from the naked eye and I don't have any calipers handy to take measurements. Seems to be identical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermes_actual Posted August 31, 2023 Author Share Posted August 31, 2023 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Bob1230 said: I can't tell any difference in the plunger from the naked eye and I don't have any calipers handy to take measurements. Seems to be identical. The plunger is definitely different. Look closely. Unfortunately, the cutout for the plunger is different also. So doubt a simple plunger swap is possible. Edited August 31, 2023 by hermes_actual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob1230 Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 1 hour ago, hermes_actual said: The plunger is definitely different. Look closely. Unfortunately, the cutout for the plunger is different also. So doubt a simple plunger swap is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob1230 Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 1 hour ago, hermes_actual said: The plunger is definitely different. Look closely. Unfortunately, the cutout for the plunger is different also. So doubt a simple plunger swap is possible. I didn't have "plunger photo shoot" on my schedule for today, but here we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermes_actual Posted August 31, 2023 Author Share Posted August 31, 2023 Just now, Bob1230 said: I didn't have "plunger photo shoot" on my schedule for today, but here we are. Okay okay. Take it back. The first photo angle really makes them look very different. Thanks for the clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisexv6 Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 11 minutes ago, hermes_actual said: Okay okay. Take it back. The first photo angle really makes them look very different. Thanks for the clarification. That is good news, after all. People could, technically, make that channel a bit wider by themselves. Curious if Canik would offer a service for it, or just start swapping slides (or maybe even sending out a bare slide so people aren't missing their guns for weeks?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermes_actual Posted August 31, 2023 Author Share Posted August 31, 2023 1 minute ago, Chrisexv6 said: That is good news, after all. People could, technically, make that channel a bit wider by themselves. Curious if Canik would offer a service for it, or just start swapping slides (or maybe even sending out a bare slide so people aren't missing their guns for weeks?) Looks like a business opportunity for someone with a mill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob1230 Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 14 minutes ago, hermes_actual said: Okay okay. Take it back. The first photo angle really makes them look very different. Thanks for the clarification. All good! I know I'd want to see those side by side details if I didn't have another one available myself. This has been such a tricky issue with lots of ideas so want to share what I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisexv6 Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 41 minutes ago, hermes_actual said: Looks like a business opportunity for someone with a mill. I wonder if some of the places that provide chamber services could mill the slide, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeK1 Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 Canik should do a recall on all guns that have issues, and either mill the slide and install an improved plunger, or give them a new slide... basic customer service stuff... I don't want to say the product is defective; it does as it was designed... the design is poor and should be corrected... including all previously sold items... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisexv6 Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 8 minutes ago, JoeK1 said: Canik should do a recall on all guns that have issues, and either mill the slide and install an improved plunger, or give them a new slide... basic customer service stuff... I don't want to say the product is defective; it does as it was designed... the design is poor and should be corrected... including all previously sold items... This will be where the rubber meets the road in regards to Canik service. Though as of late it has not instilled much confidence. Not even sure if you contacted them today about the over-insertion issue, would they know a fix is even available? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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