.38 Super ?

[jpfishmaster]

I know may shoot a .38 Super but what types. My research has showed me that the sky is the limit , all based on how much $$$$ you want to spend. But what about production models, like the Kimber Team Match II or Tatget Match in .38 super. I also have been looking at the different requirements for competition shooting with the .38 Super and am somewhat confused. All info greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[MVZ]

Shooting 38 super in anything but open will cause you to be scored "minor". Major power factor for Limited L-10 etc. req. minimum of 40 S&W

[Merlin Orr]

Paul

Have you decided what sport you are interested in? USPSA or IDPA or?? Different sports and classes have different requirements and therefore different answers to your questions.

What areas interest you?

[jpfishmaster]

Actually, I'm undecided. I'm just getting interested in competition shooting and looking at all options. Let's see, kinda like a kid at Christmas!!!!!

[Merlin Orr]

It would take a book - or several - to answer this broad of a question. Way too many options to give a good answer. Go to a few matches - of whatever kind - look and then narrow it down a little.

[Scout454]

If you're seriously looking for a single stack .38 Super, I just listed one in Classifieds.

[ipscron2000]

jpfishmaster - I'm with Merlin. Go to several types of matches that your interested in shooting and see what people are shooting. Talk to those people and try out their guns after the match. Most wont mind to show off their blaster.

In USPSA there are 5, fixin to be 6 divisions. And certain divisions have their gun/caliber advantages.

Open - 38 super, or 9mm Major pretty much dominates

Limited - .40 cal with high caps

Limited 10 - .40 or .45 with 10 round mags

Production - .40 if you reload, 9mm if you don't

Revolver - .45/.40

And the new division SS - Single Stack, I think it can be .40/.45 with 8 round mags

And that's just USPSA

You will need an IDPA guy to tell you how IDPA works. I shoot the game, I just don't know much about the divisions.

I hope this helps.

[AlamoShooter]

could be missinformed but I don't think Kimber makes a 38 supper. I think thay are kind of proud of just doing it in 45 cal

I do think the 38 supper is a grate round, it can be loaded up or down. I shoot a steel load that is a 95 grain Zero bullet at about 1,400 fps. It makes the comp work and shoots flat.

If you don't plan to hand load the 38S does not make since.

If you are just starting out and going to get a off the rack gun, you would probly be the most happy with a 9mm. Guns hold resale fairly good for the amount of use you get out of them. Not like buying a Golf clubs or Snoe skis.

Do you plan to add optics to the gun? or shoot Iron sights? Comped or non comped.

By the time you know what questions to ask you wont need ot ask them.

Find the game you wont to play and make shurr you llike the group playing it. Who you play the game with has plenty to do with how much you will like it.

[Carmoney]

jp, by coincidence I just traded into a Kimber Team Match II in .38 Super at a gun show in Des Moines recently. Actually, I'm very impressed with the gun...I changed out the springs, sighted it in, and shot a USPSA match with it the very next day and finished 2nd in L-10 at 93.44% of our club's best L-10 shooter. Very accurate and reliable so far. (The pistol Scout454 has for sale looks very nice, by the way.)

I bought this particular gun to use occasionally in the new provisional Single Stack 1911 division in USPSA, although I expect to shoot my .45 1911s more frequently this year. In Single Stack, the 10-round mags that are available for .38 Super give it a distinct advantage over the 9-rounders available for 9mm. For ESP in IDPA the 9mm would probably be a better choice.

.38 Super is definitely only practical for those who reload, but it's a nice easy cartridge to work with...Cabela's has new Remington brass for $80/thousand right now online.

I'm not trying to push the .38 Super 1911 concept, by the way, and agree that you should look around and check out what kind of matches are available in your area..... Then again, sometimes I've been known to buy guns on impulse, and if you decide you want a gun like this, be assured there are several fun games you can play with it! It's also really a nice comfortable gun to shoot, with mild (minor power factor) loads.

Good luck,

Mike

Edited December 6, 2005 by Carmoney

[Genghis]

I just bought a .38 Super to shoot in USPSA Open class. I looked for commercial ammo to get me by until I can get set up to reload that caliber. I only found two types of ammo (Corbon and Georgia Arms) that make Major power factor. Most comes in around 130 - 160 PF.

Any Open shooter will tell you that you'd be a fool to shoot Minor power factor in Open. I'm a fool because I did it recently.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...l=super+factory

Of course the published data may be with a shorter barrel. A longer barrel might push you over the minimum.

[Scout454]

Alamo,

I have Kimber's in .45, .40, and .38 Super. The .45 came first, then the .40 (1998?), the Super came along in 2000 or 2001 and the 9mm was last (2003-2004). Kimber still makes .45, .40 and the Super.

could be missinformed but I don't think Kimber makes a 38 supper. I think thay are kind of proud of just doing it in 45 cal

I do think the 38 supper is a grate round, it can be loaded up or down. I shoot a steel load that is a 95 grain Zero bullet at about 1,400 fps. It makes the comp work and shoots flat.

If you don't plan to hand load the 38S does not make since.

If you are just starting out and going to get a off the rack gun, you would probly be the most happy with a 9mm. Guns hold resale fairly good for the amount of use you get out of them. Not like buying a Golf clubs or Snoe skis.

Do you plan to add optics to the gun? or shoot Iron sights? Comped or non comped.

By the time you know what questions to ask you wont need ot ask them.

Find the game you wont to play and make shurr you llike the group playing it. Who you play the game with has plenty to do with how much you will like it.

[AlamoShooter]

Alamo,

I have Kimber's in .45, .40, and .38 Super. The .45 came first, then the .40 (1998?), the Super came along in 2000 or 2001 and the 9mm was last (2003-2004). Kimber still makes .45, .40 and the Super.

could be missinformed but I don't think Kimber makes a 38 supper. I think thay are kind of proud of just doing it in 45 cal

I do think the 38 supper is a grate round, it can be loaded up or down. I shoot a steel load that is a 95 grain Zero bullet at about 1,400 fps. It makes the comp work and shoots flat.

If you don't plan to hand load the 38S does not make since.

If you are just starting out and going to get a off the rack gun, you would probly be the most happy with a 9mm. Guns hold resale fairly good for the amount of use you get out of them. Not like buying a Golf clubs or Snoe skis.

Do you plan to add optics to the gun? or shoot Iron sights? Comped or non comped.

By the time you know what questions to ask you wont need ot ask them.

Find the game you wont to play and make shurr you llike the group playing it. Who you play the game with has plenty to do with how much you will like it.

Thanks for the information, I remember a friend telling me indignatly that Kimber only makes 45s. But that must have ben a wile back

[jpfishmaster]

Great input guys. Being an avid gunner, non-competiting as of yet, I'm sure I'll end up with both a .40 and eventually a .38 super. I'm looking forward to meeting someone locally with a super so I can shoot it just to see what it compares to. I take it the .38 super is of lighter recoil since it is used in speed matches. Is this correct ? Thanks again and keep it coming. And oh yes, I will be reloading. I'm sure I'll be inquiring on progressive reloaders later

[ima45dv8]

I'm sure I'll be inquiring on progressive reloaders later

Well all righty, then! Let's just cut to the chase and give you the 2 pieces of information you'll need:

1) A Dillon press

2) from Brian Enos

(a great combination)

[SRT Driver]

38 Super is arguably the most versitile cartridge around. I have several 1911's in 38 Super.

It shoots 1.5" and under at 50 Yards through several of my guns. And the same load works in all of them except the USPSA Open gun.

You can shoot steel, L10 (minor), Metallic sight Action Pistol, PPC, IDPA all with the same gun.

It can go fast or slow. Everyone makes mags that work.

Kimber makes a fine Super. I like my Rock River but I had a Kimber until the Rock River was ready.

You could do far worse!!

[jpfishmaster]

THANKS GUYS!! Yes, a Dillon press for sure. And SRT, you da man ! It does seem the 38 super could be used in a number of different formats. Now I have seen some info posted on the PF of minor and major, you listed shooting yours in L 10 minor. Exactly how is PF measured? Can the 38 super be loaded for major ? Thanks.

[Genghis]

Exactly how is PF measured? Can the 38 super be loaded for major ? Thanks.

PF is [bULLET WEIGHT IN GRAINS] X [VELOCITY IN FPS] / 1,000. So a 180 grain bullet at 1,000 fps is 180 PF.

You can load the .38 Super for Major, but you have to exceed the max loads from the manual. I'm loading Major loads for Open class, using 121 grain JHP's. The minimun for Major PF is 165, so I need at least 1364 fps (165,000 / 121). The max velocity in the manuals is about 1,200 fps. Of course this gun was built to handle those loads.

[mda]

JP

As mentioned in an early post 38 super can only be loaded and shot major in open ! The reason for this is that there are no loads for 38 super that make major with out exceding SAMMI pressure specifications. THe 38 super is a very high pressure, loaded to major, round and should be only used in handguns designed for this load. The 38 super, loaded to major, also not the place to start learning to reload.

All other divisions have a minimum of .40 cal as the smallest size that can be loaded to major. Limited 10 and production have a round limit of 10 in the mag so there is no advantage in using 38 super in anything other than open.

The main reason 38 super is used in open division is that you can load more rounds in the magazine, Thus less reloading.

PF = (bullet weight(grains) x velocity(fps))/1000

majof PF = 165 minimun

[Flexmoney]

I 38 Super is more of a niche gun. I can't think of suggesting it as an entry gun into our games.

You will get tons more mileage from a double stack 40...like the Para that you seem to lean towards.

[SRT Driver]

I 38 Super is more of a niche gun. I can't think of suggesting it as an entry gun into our games.

You will get tons more mileage from a double stack 40...like the Para that you seem to lean towards.

Flex,

I don't know about that.

For USPSA, a .40 is a better choice.

But for all of the other sports, NRA Action, PPC, IDPA, Steel, and even bullseye, 38 Super is a far better choice than .40. 40 just doesn't shoot as well as a good Super, IMHO.

A 40 can be used in all of these sports but Super is more adaptable and probably one of the most under rated rounds in history.

[Flexmoney]

- NRA Action

- IDPA

- Steel Challenge

- USPSA

- Bowling Pins

- Other

....category is..."Things I've won with a 40 caliber Glock"

I like to shoot all of the different matches, but the reality is that USPSA/IPSC or IDPA are the formats that most shooters are going to find near them. I think we have one Steel Challenge match in the whole state of Ohio. One NRA Action match as well. That seems to be about the norm for the surrounding states as well.

[AikiDale]

What? No Glock matches????

[jpfishmaster]

Thanks guys, good points.