RL550B powder drop issue

[njl]

I was just loading some more of the same load I've been shooting in IDPA for the past few years...3.3gr Promo under 135gr (really 137gr) coated lead, and thanks to my home made LED press lighting system, I noticed the case in station 3 looked awfully lightly charged.  I pulled it off the press and weighed the powder.  It was only 2.1gr.  This was the 23rd round of of the session. 

 

I never leave powder in the hopper between sessions, so each session starts with me pouring powder into the hopper using a funnel.  I then tap the funnel against the inside of the mouth of the hopper both to knock any residue from the funnel into the hopper and to help settle the powder in the hopper.  I then load the primer magazine if it was empty (which is typical, as I usually end a session by stopping when the primers run out).  Before I load any rounds, I use one of several dedicated "powder measure cases" to run some powder through the powder drop...usually about 10 times (fill the case, dump it back in to the hopper, repeat).  Then I drop powder into 5 dedicated powder measure cases, dump them all into a pan, weigh, and divide by 5 to see what my avg powder drop is.  If it's what I'm expecting, I start loading ammo.

 

I can see how the first powder drop might be light (which is why I've always charged about 15 cases that don't get loaded before doing any loading...but I'm at a loss as to how I could load 22 good rounds, and then have one come out more than a grain light.  At a match I shot yesterday, we had a new guy / new reloader have multiple squibs.  Not wanting to be "that guy", I figured out of an abundance of caution, I should pull all the previous rounds from this session, just in case I missed a prior light one.  All were properly charged.

 

I know Promo isn't exactly known for great metering, and shortly after I started using it, I bought an XS powder bar, which I always use when loading with Promo.

 

My press was bought new (through Brian) about 14 years ago, so it's got the newer style powder measure with the failsafe rod.  I load and store all my components indoors...so it's climate controlled and doesn't get uncomfortably cold or hot.  I'm well into my second jug of Promo (which only comes in 8lb jugs), so I'm not exactly new to using it and have never seen this before.

[vluc]

How often do you take the powder assembly apart and clean it?

[Sarge]

Might have dropped a bullet in the hopper. Or a bug might have dropped in there.

empty the hopper completely and clean as needed and see what happens.

[AHI]

check the bellcrank bolt  while you are cleaning etc. You should not need the xs powder bar by the way.

[njl]

7 hours ago, vluc said:

How often do you take the powder assembly apart and clean it?

I'm supposed to do that?  The closest I get to taking it apart is swapping out the powder bar (I have several extras so I can load my current load in several calibers without having to adjust the powder bar), but I haven't even done that for probably a few thousand rounds, as all I've been shooting lately is 9mm.

[HesedTech]

14 minutes ago, njl said:

I'm supposed to do that?

I’ve run 10s of thousands of rounds without “cleaning” the Dillon powder measure. Of course when it was new I polished and smoothed everything out, in the funnel, bar and such. I’ve even had parts break, but it has always reliably drop the desired amount. 
 

I don’t know what powder you use, as you probably already know (speaking to the choir) some powders drop better than others. In rifle loading Varget and anything with a similar shape, stick, doesn’t meter as well. I found WST also doesn’t drop as consistent.

 

Anytime there’s an anomaly I recommend pulling the powder measure, make sure the funnel area is free and clear and the mechanism/actuator functions correctly. Other than that there’s not much else to do. It’s not really a super refined piece of machinery, it just works or it doesn’t.

[njl]

35 minutes ago, HesedTech said:

I’ve run 10s of thousands of rounds without “cleaning” the Dillon powder measure. Of course when it was new I polished and smoothed everything out, in the funnel, bar and such. I’ve even had parts break, but it has always reliably drop the desired amount. 
 

I don’t know what powder you use, as you probably already know (speaking to the choir) some powders drop better than others. In rifle loading Varget and anything with a similar shape, stick, doesn’t meter as well. I found WST also doesn’t drop as consistent.

 

Anytime there’s an anomaly I recommend pulling the powder measure, make sure the funnel area is free and clear and the mechanism/actuator functions correctly. Other than that there’s not much else to do. It’s not really a super refined piece of machinery, it just works or it doesn’t.

 

I mentioned "Promo" in the initial post.  That's Alliant Promo, huge round flat flakes...known to not meter well.  I initially bought it for loading .380 during a prior powder shortage when it was about the only powder I could find that had published .380 load data (well...data published for Red Dot, with which Promo is supposed to be equivalent by weight).  In .380, the charges were sub-3gr, and I'd read that the different shape of the XS powder bar helped prevent bridging with Promo, so that's why I bought one and why I always use that bar for Promo loads.  It turns out to be pretty good for 9mm, .38spl, and .45acp, and it is (or at least used to be...who knows now) about the cheapest powder out there, so I started using it in all my pistol loads.

[HesedTech]

2 hours ago, njl said:

That's Alliant Promo, huge round flat flakes...known to not meter well.

Never used it. Based on what you wrote I did a quick search and yes it seems it also can "pack" and cause measure issues.

I guess the only answer is to make sure it stay as sry as possible and you need to unload the powder measure after every loading session. Maybe even shake or "fluff" it up some how? 

 

For difficult powders I use an automatic powder trickler, but that's way too slow for any sort of volume loading.

[njl]

I was just playing around with it empty, and noticed it seems like something inside the powder measure is binding.  It's not doing this every time, but pretty frequently.  Is the click and shudder half way through this video "normal"?

 

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AnxwqI_RMuWFgdpWaLWT8E_DrTLSlw

Edited March 8, 2022 by njl

[Sarge]

14 minutes ago, njl said:

I was just playing around with it empty, and noticed it seems like something inside the powder measure is binding.  It's not doing this every time, but pretty frequently.  Is the click and shudder half way through this video "normal"?

 

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AnxwqI_RMuWFgdpWaLWT8E_DrTLSlw

Tear it completely apart and check 

[HesedTech]

1 hour ago, njl said:

Is the click and shudder half way through this video "normal"?

Hard to tell from video. One problem I had was the powder bar developed a gall between the bar and side.  It caused the bar to hang up and not fully slide and deformed the brass. The measure body isn’t made of the finest metal. It’s pretty soft.

 

galling

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galling

[AHI]

First you still need to take the powder measure appart and inspect/ clean /tighten. You appear to be fighting doing this. Not sure why. Its not that hard. 

Next     I have loaded lots of promo in the past. Your on the edge of where it will meter consistently. The Xsmall bar make things worse. Standard pisto bar would meter +/-  .1gr.   Xsmall would be .3+/-.      3.5 seamed to be the "brake" point. The more you go below that . The more inconsistent. The more above it became more consistent. As you stated  Promo is a large "flake' powder. It needs a large hole to fall into.

[vluc]

It's kind of like when the pc or phone gets buggy, restart.  Same with the press.  None of it is hard to take apart, and a visual inspection of everything now and again is a good thing.

 

Hope you get it resolved.

[njl]

I'm not fighting taking it apart.  Worst case, I have 1 spare powder measure (an older style one that came with some dies I bought second-hand) that I can use if I totally screw up the one the press came with.  Back when I got started (about 14 years ago) I'd read about polishing the inside of the powder measure, and was interested in doing that, but I found after removing the screws holding the hopper to the measure, the hopper still wouldn't come off.  Was Dillon using both screws and glue to hold them together at any point?

I guess I can also try going back to the standard small powder bar for Promo.  I've been resisting/putting this off, but I think one of the best things I could probably do for Promo is rig up some kind of "vibrator" to the hopper.  Maybe I can find/figure something out that can run off the 12vDC the LEDs run on.

[HesedTech]

2 minutes ago, njl said:

I could probably do for Promo is rig up some kind of "vibrator" to the hopper. 

I made two of these for rifle loading on my 550:

 

https://github.com/stro/powdershaker#:~:text=PowderShaker is a small add-on device for Dillon,provide the housing for components and the mount.

 

Works great. But you need a 3D printer to make the plastic parts.

[njl]

1 hour ago, HesedTech said:

I made two of these for rifle loading on my 550:

 

https://github.com/stro/powdershaker#:~:text=PowderShaker is a small add-on device for Dillon,provide the housing for components and the mount.

 

Works great. But you need a 3D printer to make the plastic parts.

Looks cool, but I don't have a 3D printer.  I've seen pics of people just strapping an old electric toothbrush to the powder hopper.  I was thinking maybe I could do that with an eccentric wheel motor and just wire it into the same supply as my LED lighting.  That way, if the press lights are on, the motor is on.

[njl]

Ok...so I've got it fully disassembled.  The only notable things I noticed are:
My bell crank cube is "broken" on one side and the center hole has enlarged.  I have a spare from the spare parts kit I bought from Dillon years ago.

There's some gouging in powder measure body from letting the lock link assembly slap the body when the failsafe rod has been removed (likely while emptying the powder at the end of a session).  I don't think that's an issue. The gouged area doesn't come into contact with anything during normal operation.

The hole in the body for the bell crank bolt appears out of round on the right side and was pretty jagged.  I used a file to smooth the side of the body there.

The bell crank bolt was filthy...caked in black grunge...not sure if this was powder dust, powder + grease, or what.  I got it much cleaner with some 91% isopropyl.

The body collar seemed like it'd been greased on the tracks that come into contact with the powder measure body.  Should it be, or should it be reassembled clean and dry?

 

I've seen at least one video from a guy recommending tossing the body and body collar housing in a vibratory [brass] tumbler as an easy way to polish them.  What's the thinking here on doing that?  As long as I have it fully apart, I would like to at least polish the inside of the body.

Edited March 9, 2022 by njl

[vluc]

Or you can contact Dillon and get a new assembly. No bs warranty and my press was about 20 years old. 

[AHI]

the bell crank cube beng broken and the bolt beng dirty are most likely your  issue. Are you now seeing why you should clean the powder measure ?

Every so often.  

Edited March 9, 2022 by AHI

[Youngeyes]

Short stroke? All the other loads were good.

[njl]

4 hours ago, Youngeyes said:

Short stroke? All the other loads were good.

I really didn't think so, but I'm not sure I can totally rule that out.

[shred]

One of mine the bellcrank loosens up over time and the white cube will pop out of the groove in the powder bar as it drives forward which leads to low powder drops and a 'snap' sound as it retracts and pretends like nothing happened.

[njl]

15 minutes ago, shred said:

One of mine the bellcrank loosens up over time and the white cube will pop out of the groove in the powder bar as it drives forward which leads to low powder drops and a 'snap' sound as it retracts and pretends like nothing happened.

I don't think that's happening, but one other thing I did notice looking at the manual is that I don't think the bell crank screw has been as tight as it's supposed to be.  I noticed the manual says to loosen that screw when replacing the powder bar.  Mine's been loose enough for as long as I can remember, that if I half cycle the bell crank (so the "cube" is roughly in the middle of its travel), I can flex the bell crank just enough to get it out of the cube, releasing its hold on the powder bar.  Maybe I loosened it at some point years ago when replacing the powder bar, and forgot to tighten it?

[AHI]

You have found your issue. Now accept it.

[njl]

I hand polished the inside of the powder measure body last night.  I assume it's aluminum.  I realized in watching a video that the tube through which the powder drops is steel and a separate part.  Is this just friction fit into the body?