RL550B powder drop issue

[njl]

I guess I'll be calling Dillon next week for help/parts.  I put everything back together and did an experiment, measuring the consistency of powder drops with Promo and a small bar vs the extra small bar.  The target was 3.3gr.  I did get better consistency and smaller standard deviation with the small bar.  So, I just loaded another 200 rounds of this load (using the small bar and a new "cube"), and the second to the last one, I noticed the powder level in station 3 looked low.  Dumped it out to weigh, and it was only 2.1gr.

 

I'm starting to wonder if it could be a static problem causing the powder to clump or stick.

[vluc]

Good to see you going through a process.  After all this, perhaps it is the powder that is ultimately the problem.  I'm surprised that other Alliant users haven't chimed in.  It's too bad that you have no other powder to try, might see if a fellow shooter in your area would be open to helping you see if it's a powder issue by cycling his/her powder through your machine and/or vice versa, see if yours has the same problem elsewhere.

[njl]

4 hours ago, vluc said:

Good to see you going through a process.  After all this, perhaps it is the powder that is ultimately the problem.  I'm surprised that other Alliant users haven't chimed in.  It's too bad that you have no other powder to try, might see if a fellow shooter in your area would be open to helping you see if it's a powder issue by cycling his/her powder through your machine and/or vice versa, see if yours has the same problem elsewhere.

 

I was doing some more googling last night, and came across a couple of posts from people saying you have to shake up Promo before putting it in a powder hopper.  IIRC, some were saying this was to break up any clumps, some because they claim Promo is a mix of different left over powders and you need to make the mix uniform.  I seriously doubt the latter of those explanations.

 

I do have other powders I could switch to, but I've got enough Promo, I will want to figure out this issue and at least be able to use up what I have.  Next thing I've decided to try is attaching a vibrating motor to to the powder hopper.

 

Another thing I've considered is, I recalled someone makes a pyrex replacement for the plastic powder hopper.  I wonder if that would reduce static issues...but I also wonder if there are safety reasons Dillon went with plastic, or if that's just an issue of cost and durability?

[njl]

I talked to Dillon support today (was amazed by the lack of hold time).  Their guess is my powder has picked up moisture from the air and I may be screwed.  I also talked to CCI/Alliant, and they really had nothing to add.  I'd always heard that smokeless powder keeps nearly indefinitely if not mistreated, so I'm kind of disappointed that 8 year old powder may have "gone bad".  To see if I can salvage this powder, I've ordered some silica gel pouches (one will be going into the jug) and a Dram Worx pyrex powder hopper.

[AHI]

Believe you said you had a couple of other powders.That you could use. Why not try one of them.As a test to see how consistent. One of them will meter.Belive you said you used the Xsmall powder bar. Try the standard bar. Some of the shotgun powders .Actually meter better when using the rifle bar.So going up one bar size could help.

[njl]

4 hours ago, AHI said:

Believe you said you had a couple of other powders.That you could use. Why not try one of them.As a test to see how consistent. One of them will meter.Belive you said you used the Xsmall powder bar. Try the standard bar. Some of the shotgun powders .Actually meter better when using the rifle bar.So going up one bar size could help.

Yeah...next loading session will be with Universal Clays.  I did order a bunch of stuff today though...Dram Worx glass hopper, desiccant packs to throw in this jug of Promo, and a glass funnel to replace the PET plastic one I've been using to make it easier to pour into the hopper and back into the jug.

[njl]

I loaded about 175 rounds with Universal last night without any powder drop issues.  I'm really hoping this Promo jug is being affected by static and not moisture, but the desiccant packs arrived yesterday, so I tossed two into the jug of Promo last night.  My glassware hasn't arrived yet.  I guess I won't be messing with the Promo again until I've upgraded the hopper and my new funnel has arrived.

[AHI]

I am going to say this one last time. As a custom ammo manufacture. I tried Promo powder.  I could not get it to meter consistently. Much below 4.0 grains. It started off great.Then it would very . Up to .8 per drop. Worked ok if I stayed at or above that 4.0gr. Most of that 1k pounds. Was sold off to shotgun shooters. There's a reason why Alliant only has Data for shotguns.

 

Edited March 18, 2022 by AHI

[Farmer]

On 3/13/2022 at 12:59 PM, njl said:

IIRC, some were saying this was to break up any clumps, some because they claim Promo is a mix of different left over powders and you need to make the mix uniform.  I seriously doubt the latter of those explanations.

Promo is Red Dot of different lot numbers. Loads the same just a little more variance than Red Dot nothing more, nothing less, no mystery’s. 

[njl]

6 hours ago, AHI said:

I am going to say this one last time. As a custom ammo manufacture. I tried Promo powder.  I could not get it to meter consistently. Much below 4.0 grains. It started off great.Then it would very . Up to .8 per drop. Worked ok if I stayed at or above that 4.0gr. Most of that 1k pounds. Was sold off to shotgun shooters. There's a reason why Alliant only has Data for shotguns.

 

You weren't quite that clear in your previous post about Promo's inconsistency as the charge weights get lower. Maybe I'll have to save the Promo for .38spl and .45acp...though given that I've loaded and shot thousands of rounds of mid to heavy weight 9mm with Promo over the past several years, I still think it's odd that suddenly I'm having this problem.
One other thing that may be worth mentioning is, about 4 years ago, I got the idea to cut the top off a 2L soda bottle and start using that as a funnel for pouring powder into the hopper and back into the jug.  Previous to that, I'd been using a large store bought plastic funnel, but I ended up needing that funnel elsewhere.  I don't know if this could be a source of static, or why it would take 4+ years for it to start causing problems, but I'd already decided to eliminate this from my setup.  My pyrex funnel arrived today.  Just waiting for the new hopper now.

[N7VY]

I’ve read of your problems and you’ve worked through must of your issues. I was going to suggest polishing internal powder drop parts (which you’ve done), look for damaged parts (again done), but I have two suggestions. I shake my powder prior to putting it into my hopper to break up any clumps that might be in there and I clean the moving parts when I see things get “glitchy”. I also use return springs on my powder drop which I believe help with the metering. 
Isn’t it fun working through our issues? 

[njl]

15 hours ago, N7VY said:

I’ve read of your problems and you’ve worked through must of your issues. I was going to suggest polishing internal powder drop parts (which you’ve done), look for damaged parts (again done), but I have two suggestions. I shake my powder prior to putting it into my hopper to break up any clumps that might be in there and I clean the moving parts when I see things get “glitchy”. I also use return springs on my powder drop which I believe help with the metering. 
Isn’t it fun working through our issues? 

 

I haven't previously done the shake before pouring into the measure, but I did recently try that and it didn't seem to help.  I actually have 2 powder systems...the one that came with my RL550B ~14 years ago when bought new is, AFAIK, the latest style.  I have an older one with the older single-piece crank which came with a return spring.  When I spoke to Dillon support the other day, I asked if it was worth trying the return spring on my current version powder measure, and the answer was "no, we find that makes the powder bar return too violent."

I guess if I can't resolve the issues with this jug of Promo, I can always try just dumping it out on a large foiled baking sheet, see if I can identify and dispose of any clumps, and try using the rest of it.  In normal times, it might not be worth so much effort to save this powder, but at the moment, most smokeless powder is kind of hard to find.

[njl]

Here's the new "trying to avoid static" setup.  My only initial complaint is that the aluminum sleeve (I assume it's aluminum) on the glass hopper was kind of a loose fit in the powder measure body.  I gave it a few wraps of blue painter's tape to snug it up.  I loaded it up from my open jug of Promo and did a bunch of individual throws.  Consistency looked good...so I loaded 200 rounds of 9mm and didn't have a single charge visibly light.  I've done/changed 3 things, so at this point, I can't say which, if any of them, solved the problem, or even if it is really solved, but 200 rounds is a pretty good start.