Spotting Scope

[outerlimits]

looking at buying a spotting scope. what power would be best for looking at .223 holes at 200 yds?

[Rob Boudrie]

From what I've seem, Winchester makes some nice tabletop spotting scopes in the $100 - $150 range complete with case, and the gold standard from quality scopes seems to be the Kowa's at $800 or so. The high end scopes have interchangeable eyepieces, various objective lens sizes, and a choice of straight vs. angled eyepieces. Hi power shooters tend to use these on poles with small bases - less stable than a tripod, but easy to use everywhere from prone to standing ... and the angled objective lens is nice at prone.

My guess is that most USPSA shooters interested in using a scope for sighting in purposes would be well served with one of the $100is Winchester scopes. (which I will be getting soon). The Kowas are really nice, but I find it hard to justify the price of a gun for a scope when I could spend the money for glass which sits on top of my rifle instead on next to it.

[jm951]

Check CDNN. I've seen some pretty good deals on spotting scopes that sell for twice as much elsewhere.

As for power, 40-50x seems to be the norm. It depends on how far you're planning to ever shoot. If you set up for 200yds, the same scope won't see the holes at 1000.

[milanuk]

Best? Well, a Leica Televid APO 77mm w/ a 32x WA eyepiece does a pretty fair job... but it's about $1600+, or a Swarovski or Zeiss model does just as good or better, but then you're looking $2k+

Assuming that wasn't quite what you had in mind...

It isn't strictly a function of magnification... what kind of target are you looking at (white sheet of paper vs. a black NRA SR target bull) is a big factor, as is the lighting at the range you shoot at predominantly. I've had people tell me they can see bullet holes of a given size at 500 or 600yds (in the white) when I've looked thru some pretty high end scopes at 300yds and not been able bullet holes consistently, if at all (black SR-3 bull). The angle of the lighting at the range (how the light falls on the target face) makes a difference; at my local range the light almost casts a shadow on the target face from the east at certain times of day, making it *very* hard to see bullet holes at all at distance.

The lighting issue aside, the basics are this: in ideal conditions, i.e. bright, moderately sunny, not too warm, little to no mirage, shooting on a white target face... damn near anything more advanced than a paper towel tube w/ wax paper for lenses will show bullet holes @ 100-200yds. When the conditions start going down hill... i.e. overcast, hazy, hot as heck w/ lots of mirage, and/or black target face... thats when the high dollar glass starts earning its keep, and even then you might not be able to throw enough money at the problem to ensure perfect visibility every time. Not trying to be overly negative, just trying to point out why different people's version of 'good/best' varies considerably.

That said, for me when I bought my most recent scope, primary use being NRA Highpower competition, I went with a Kowa TSN-661 w/ the 25X WA/LER eyepiece (31mm of eye relief is *very* nice when shooting w/ eye protection). Good clarity, good field of view, shows the mirage (wind) fairly well, small/light enough that if I want to use it for something else (hunting, tactical matches) it won't require a pack mule to tote along... so for $700 I probably got about the lowest end of the 'good' scopes... and from there the price increases rapidly w/ objective size and lense coatings. One nice thing about scopes such as this (and most scopes at this price point and above) is that I can get other eye pieces such as a 20-60X variable zoom if I want, and just detach this one and plug in the new one in about 10 seconds tops.

Well, probably massive overkill, but I hope it helps a little.

Monte

[bgary]

I went with a Kowa TSN-661 w/ the 25X WA/LER eyepiece (31mm of eye relief is *very* nice when shooting w/ eye protection). Good clarity, good field of view, shows the mirage (wind) fairly well, small/light enough that if I want to use it for something else (hunting, tactical matches) it won't require a pack mule to tote along... so for $700 I probably got about the lowest end of the 'good' scopes...

I went with the 60mm version of the same scope - TSN-601 with the 25x LER [long eye relief] eyepiece. Got out the door for less than $500, and love it. More than adequate for spotting .22-cal holes at 200+ yards.

Bruce

[AlamoShooter]

last year I geared up for long range Prair Dogs 500 + to 700. Shight in and test amo went throgh four difernent spotting scopes + several that friends tryed.

best friend ended up with a Swaski $1,500 model (Nice) with The video gear for it. Also one ended up with Nikon $400 and the $800 gear with video.

I went the = less $$$ the 15 -50 Burris and of that size is not as nice as what I kept was =

"THE Burris 20-60 80mm long eye relief=. " best one for the $ it does not have the rubber coat and be found on Ebay at $200 = or - The scope is near the $800 one I compaired it to in the field, Detail at 400yards and over is good. If you plan to shoot over 200 yards a good scope will help you "dope" the wind by seeing extra detail and reading the Marage.

I picked up and sold two other scopes in teh 45 power range and was not happy with the image quality. A scope like the Winchester may say 60 Power but = and it is but =Cheep is as Cheep does.

If i was going to spend more I would go for the Kiowa several discounters sell for less, just search for Teliscope sales and you will find them at up to 1/2 what you may see in Cabelas.

Edited November 18, 2005 by AlamoShooter

[chp5]

I got a cheapo Russian spotting scope that's 20-50x.

I can see holes at 100 with no problem. At 200, I use the Shoot-n-see targets and I can then see holes with no problem. Without the Shoot-n-see targets at 200, I would not be able to see .223 holes.

It's NOT quality glass, but it works for how I use it.

[milanuk]

Cy,

Good point... a Shoot-N-C or Dirty Bird target makes life a *lot* easier when it comes to spotting bullet holes... entirely possible to get a 'okay' spotting scope and just use the Shoot-N-C's either at longer ranges or on the days the haze gets bad enough that you can't see the holes otherwise.

The quality of the glass and the coatings used does make a difference, though it may be hard to see it... it affects how well you can resolve small details. Middle of the day, fairly bright out... you may never see the difference.

Good luck w/ the search.

For Kowa... Jim Owens @ Jarheadtop.com is a good guy, supports junior rifle teams w/ the proceeds. Bear Basin and Eagle Optics are also good places to shop in general. Eagle Optics has a 'house brand' clone of the previous generation of Kowa (TSN-1) called the 'Raven' for about $400 w/ a 20-60x zoom... even takes Kowa eye pieces for 60/66mm scopes. Sportsman's Guide sells a Chiwanese clone called 'C-Star' that is about $200 w/ a 20-60X zoom... from the people I've talked to, if your scope isn't going to be taking a beating getting hauled in and out of a car trunk, and toted along btwn yard lines (NRA Highpower thing), you might like one of these. Supposedly replacing the eyepiece w/ a real Kowa part(sometimes you can find one on e-Bay) does *wonders* for the image on these.

HTH,

Monte

[Paule]

I have an 82mm Kowa w/27x LER eyepiece. Love it, and can see .223 holes consistently at 300. Beyond that is not a sure thing. I have compared to quite a few, and the best I have seen was a Zeiss, but at over 2k + eyepiece it wasn't that much better for me. The bigger objective do pull a lot more light though, so if you can deal with the larger size I'd always recommend bigger. I had a 60mm Kowa before this one and it was good, but the 82 is way better in poor light conditions. I also have the 20-60x zoom eyepiece, never use it for targets. The 27xLER is sooo much better. Full field of view with shooting glasses on and the mirage is usually too much for any more magnification anyway.

[tewlman]

I am not a high power shooter, but i do think a lot of those guys use the Kowa brand Paule mentioned. I have heard good things about them, but they are pricey.

[Dan Sierpina]

I'm another Kowa 821 user, with the 27 LER eyepiece. I do shoot highpower now and then.

[tightloop]

I have a Leica Televid and it is incredible...Got it when I shot some long distance stuff and also had Leica binocs...All superior stuff and IMO worth the money, but Kowa is ok...

I can see stuff with my scope that others cannot even in good light conditions...Used to have a Redfield with the angled eye piece and up to 48x but it was like using a glue stick when you really needed super glue..sold it at the gun show and bought the Leica..I looked at the Zeiss and there was no appreciable difference in that and mine to warrant any additional money....

Like my Granddad used to say, "buy the best you can and never look back"

[Stumpnav]

+1 on Jim Owens. I got a used Kowa from him and couldn't be happier. I can see 223 holes at 200 yds as long as conditions aren't too far in the crapper. I've heard the 27x LER eyepiece is an outstanding addition.

For a look at Jim's Kowas: Jim Owens Kowa Scopes

+1 on Jim Owens. I got a used Kowa from him and couldn't be happier. I can see 223 holes at 200 yds as long as conditions aren't too far in the crapper. I've heard the 27x LER eyepiece is an outstanding addition.

For a look at Jim's Kowas: Jim Owens Kowa Scopes

[George]

I also love my old Kowa TSN-1 but really wish I had a new TSN-821M

Definitely go for the LER eyepiece, but make sure you get plenty-o-power as 20x ain't really enough to see .223 at 200+ easily. Do like Paule says and get the 82mm 27x fixed, it's nice and bright and sharp.

OK Weber handles Kowa too:

http://www.okweber.com/order.asp?catid=4