CO vs EDC?

[rpm8300]

FWIW - I'm in law enforcement and most engagement are 7 yds and in, and quite a few are in lower light situations; for anything personal defense I would train on night sights; having the dot is good but in high stress situations, you can bring a gun up and not see a dot; it will take you a second to hunt and find it.

[Bowman]

I shoot CO in USPSA but carry an iron sighted Glock.  I feel more confidence in iron sights for EDC, as I have had dots suddenly go out a couple of times in practice.  I do shoot some other matches using iron sights so I still get practice shooting that way.

[SGT_Schultz]

On 5/31/2021 at 5:05 PM, rpm8300 said:

 I would train on night sights; having the dot is good but in high stress situations, you can bring a gun up and not see a dot; it will take you a second to hunt and find it.

 

If your index is so bad that a dot won't be in the FOV in the dark, night sights won't help either because you won't see the glowing dot from them.

 

So the answer is to train harder on the system that is much more visible once in your FOV: the red dot.

[Tango]

On 5/29/2021 at 3:41 PM, SGT_Schultz said:

 

My experience, and that of most who I know, doesn't track with his.

 

Same here. I think the dot is better and easier for a beginner, for intermediate shooter, and for an advanced shooter. But, it is particularly better/preferable for a beginner. Which is exactly the opposite of what he says.

[Tango]

21 hours ago, Bowman said:

I shoot CO in USPSA but carry an iron sighted Glock.  I feel more confidence in iron sights for EDC, as I have had dots suddenly go out a couple of times in practice.  I do shoot some other matches using iron sights so I still get practice shooting that way.

Same here. I am a dot shooter in competition but have seen many dots that fail and broke so I prefer irons for serious use, for now. When they become very robust and easier to install (and when my eye sight deteriorates), I will switch.

[Tango]

On 5/31/2021 at 4:05 PM, rpm8300 said:

FWIW - I'm in law enforcement and most engagement are 7 yds and in, and quite a few are in lower light situations; for anything personal defense I would train on night sights; having the dot is good but in high stress situations, you can bring a gun up and not see a dot; it will take you a second to hunt and find it.

At those distances you can pretty much point it and press the trigger, or use the window of the dot as a reference, and you will hit. I still struggle from time to time finding the dot when I am at awkward positions, but it is never a full second delay. When I lose the dot it is always high, so it just requires a quick downward adjustment.

[tbarker13]

I've gone both ways. I have a few different carry guns - one of which is a Hellcat with a Shield RMSc optic that's co-witnessed. I generally assume that a self-defense situation would most likely be point-and-shoot. But that optic is not hard to conceal. So I can see very little downside in having it on there.

[lgh]

49 minutes ago, tbarker13 said:

I generally assume that a self-defense situation would most likely be point-and-shoot.

Some of my PD training has been with a SF (Ranger sniper) with lots of real combat experience. Been shot 3 times, bayoneted, etc. He pointed out to me that, opposed to rifle distances, when in a deadly situation at handgun distances your eyes will develop tunnel vision. You will not be able to look at the sights or anything but the threat. The most you can hope for is a flash picture of the front sight or dot. I knew this already from physiology class but it was nice hearing it from him.

 

With that in mind, I had irons on my EDC. Lately, I tried dry firing with my every day bifocals and without my glasses at all. The idea was to see if I got a flash picture equally with a RDS or irons. RDS won out. YMMV, especiaily if you have great vision without glasses. I would agree that the most important thing is that your gun always come up to where your eyes are looking. That's a training/practice issue.

[tbarker13]

4 hours ago, lgh said:

That's a training/practice issue.

 

No doubt about that. I'm sure most people who train and practice heavily for USPSA (and other action shooting games) develop quite a bit of muscle memory. With enough practice, I suspect you don't really need sights to hit center mass on a human-sized target at 7 yards.

[Stafford]

OK, I'll throw in a little something here. Due to various reasons, I didn't shoot or dry fire from January until this month (June). Prior to the end of January, I was shooting and competing with a dot regularly. Meaning 3-4 competitions per month, plus dry fire with a dot, and 3-4 range sessions per month with both dot and irons. For the most part, the dot had become instinctive, however, I would always lose the dot on one or two arrays per match. 

 

I recently shot my first match since January and I could tell the layoff from the dot and competition had really hurt my reaction time. I never lost the dot, but I was a tad slow to trust it and let the shot go down range. What that tells me is that if you do use a dot on a carry pistol, you better train with it regularly, meaning shooting at the range, dry fire, and competition or regular training. Otherwise, you may be slow to trust what your eyes and mind are telling you. 

 

On another note, one of the shooters at the competition is a law enforcement officer. He was joking around with one of the PCC guys about running a dot on his carry pistol. Basically, he told him that the dot was good for competition but could get you shot in a combat situation. And that was why you need to run irons on your carry pistol. It sounded like a continuation of an ongoing conversation and the two were kidding each other. 

[SGT_Schultz]

15 hours ago, Stafford said:

What that tells me is that if you do use a dot on a carry pistol, you better train with it regularly, meaning shooting at the range, dry fire, and competition or regular training. Otherwise, you may be slow to trust what your eyes and mind are telling you.

 

I disagree.  To me it just means your index needs work and you're still focusing on the dot.

 

Once one learns how to use a pistol mounted RDS, it's literally like riding a bicycle.