Best / Most Popular Upper For Tactical Class 3 Gun?

[Fullauto_Shooter]

Later this week, I will be getting a RRA lower with NM 2 Stage Trigger to serve as my dedicated 3 Gun Rifle platform.

My question is simple - which upper is the best / most popular for Tactical 3 Gun competition?

Up til now, I've been shooting a Registered Receiver Sendra M16 with 14.5 inch barrel for all my rifle needs, but I feel that the short barrel length, collapsible stock, and overall light weight may be a bit of a handicap.

Which barrel length is optimum for this sport (16" or 20"). Do I really need a NM stainless barrel, or is a standard barrel competitive enough?

Which optic is best (I've been using an EOTECH with very good results but have never had to make any shots over 100 meters).

Also, I assume that a fixed stock (A2 type) is more stable / better than the collapsible stock I've been using.

I welcome any and all opinions.

[sfinney]

I'm DEFINTELY not a 3-Gun expert, but: I like the plain jane mil-spec barrels (non-bull), HBAR or govt profile in a 16" or 18" length depending on if you like the weigtht, 1:7 or 1:9 twist. Fixed stocks, free float tube, and some kind of muzzle brake. Top it off with an EOTECH for close hosing, or a cheap Simmons Pro-Diamond 1.5-5 x 20 scope (Benny Hill's favorite) for medium and longer work. Key though is a good trigger - JP or the drop in McCormick unit. If you like two stage triggers, then the RRA trigger can be cleaned up pretty well.... it'll do. I prefer 1 stage trigger for IPSC, but that's just me.

Edited November 8, 2005 by sfinney

[kurtm]

I,ve got a nice all colt 16" M-4 upper with a long free float tube and a trijicon reflex sitting on it. It's a 1X7 barrel w/ a Smith brake; bolt and carrier included. If anyone is interested P.M. me KURT

[kellyn]

Get an 18 or 20 in upper from JP or Triangle Shooting Sports or Accuracy Speaks and be done with it. I'd keep it at 18 inches unless you're going to use iron sights (then I'd get a 20 for sight radius).

Standard barrels are fine. Match grade is nice but not mandatory. But all the uppers that I've recommended usually come with match grade barrels. I'm sure Triangle Shooting Sports or Accuracy Speaks would make you one with a stock barrel. Accuracy Speaks has done so for me twice - with a stock HBAR barrels Derrick found on the floor in his shop. One shoots 1 MOA all day long, the other 2/3 MOA after being turned down!

Which optic is Best? There are plenty o' threads about this topic being debated right now.

Stocks? A2 is fine, A1 is fine. I don't like collapsible stocks (except VLTOR, ACE and Magpul) because they grab my goatee. You won't win because you have fancy stock.

[Bronco]

If you end up with anything other than a mil-spec barrel be aware of chamber dimensions, as the match barrels can have really tight chambers and cause feeding or extraction problems. You will want to get the barrel warm after breaking it in to check for problems with to tight a chamber. Keith

[George]

I agree with Kelly about the JP or Benny Hill upper and about the 20' for iron sights, 18" for scope. Get it in 1:9 twist. Call each one to ask about their options. JP makes several types of upper receiver, CTR-02 and JP-15.

Personally, I would have put a single stage JP trigger group in rather than a RRA NM 2 stage one. Wait until you get a chance to try a JP trigger, you will know why then ;-)

A solid stock is better for the sport. You won't be parachuting,or rapelling into a stage.

If you want to save some big bux in the long run by not buying two expensive scopes (2nd one after you decide you don't really like the first one), just get a low powered variable Simmonds Pro Diamond shotgun scope. Benny Hill recommends them and they are cheap enough to be a real good starter choice.

--

Regards,

[tewlman]

you might also check with Paule here on this forum with MSTN. He sells some good stuff and some of the top guys are running his rifles.

as far as barrel length, optics, etc, etc, it has everything to do with personnal preference and what works for me might not do the trick for you.

optics....wow has that one been covered but you can spend as little or as much as you would like on optics. Buy the best glass that fits your budget and forget what everyone else is using.

[Still Praying]

For what it's worth here's my 2 cents.

I've just gotten my new upper from Henry Avant at Saw Custom and love it. I shot it this past weekend at the Area 6-3 Gun for the first time at a match. The rifle made the match for me. It's a 16 in, 1 in 9, fluted, floating barrel, flat top Rock River, Short forarm, Henrys very own comp and of all things a Tasco 30mm 3 min dot. The gun is great for those close places where you have to get in and out of tight spots, like some ports that you have to get into. The 100 yard head shots we had, no trouble at all. I got all 4 hits . He also put a Jard trigger in it, 2pounds. Man that is sweet. I think I've found the right combination for me in this part of the country as we don't normally have shots over 200 yards on a match. If we are I will put a 3x9 on it also. Most of our long shots are 80 to 100 yards. I'm not accustom to having a rifle shoot that flat, It just don't move much at all. I found myself waiting for the dot to get back on the target, but it was already there . As far as accuracy, I think I could shoot a flea of a rats nose at 200 yards, or at least hit the rat in the head . The price was very good too. Good luck in your quest, I hope I've been able to help.

Ronnie

Saw Custom(478)986-4156 or 952-3660

sawcustom@msn.com

Edited November 9, 2005 by Still Praying

[kellyn]

Another vote for MSTN. Sorry, I left them out of my orig. response.

I would get a 1 in 8 or 1 in 7 twist so I could shoot heavier bullets (75/77 grs.) If you don't want to shoot the heavies, a 1 in 9 is fine.

[lucas]

ME to.Just sighted in my MSTN 18" Krieger 1/7.7 SS competition contour w/black-kote.

[AK74]

Well I just put together a new top end for my IPSC AR.

I had been shooting a flattop with an old A1 barrel, really light, handled great.

The matches are all short range around here (Central Florida), 75 yards is a long shot, but even so you are shooting minor so shooting A's is important.

So my new upper is a DPMS low-pro upper, a 20" SS HBAR barrel, flat top gas block, Meclek(SP?) brake. The EO tech is a great sight unless your shooting +200 yards.

With my old light upper I was tracking the dot up and down, with the HBAR barrel and Brake now it just wiggles, like shooting an open pistol.

I have never shot a course of fire where a carbine length barrel would have been an advantage, so I would not go shorter then 18 inches.

I am also using a RRA trigger and an M4 stock, I am vary happy with both, but most guys do prefer a single stage trigger, as for the stock it works well for me, I find the A2 stock too long unless shooting prone, I did add a rubber pad to keep it from sliding off my shoulder.

Edited November 10, 2005 by AK74

[Fullauto_Shooter]

Thanks for all the replies guy - I'm getting some really good ideas. Starting to wonder if a JP type single stage trigger might be better than a 2 stage (I've never tried a good single stage, so I don't know what I'm missing).

Does anybody have any negative experiences with RRA lowers - I've heard nothing but good about them so that's why I chose one. Would I be better off with DPMS, bushmaster, etc?

Sounds like the consensus is an 18 inch barrel for optics. I might call Benny or JP to see what they recommend for my needs.

Optics?? Man, there are too many choices. I love my EOTECH but fear the day I go to a match with 200+ yard shots. Still have to mull this one over.

[George]

The RRA lower is just as good as any standard product from the standard players like Bushy, DPMS, Sabre, etc... It is however, not the same as a JP CTR series lower though, they are one of a kind and if you see one, you will see why ;-)

A lot of shooters believe in choosing a supplier that supports the sport by sponsoring matches. DPMS and JP do this heavily, RRA does not. Your choice here, the product is no different (except for the high end JP stuff of course).

The RRA lower with a JP drop in or a full build in JP system would be the hot setup. If JP does the upper, send them the lower and have them stick the full on trigger group in. If the upper comes from somewhere else, get a JP drop in modular trigger. Benny Hill uses the full install JP triggers so that says something.

The cheap Simmonds low powered variable scope Benny Hill recommends is so cheap that it makes good sense as a starter. It can become an optional optic if you move on to something else and you aren't out big bux. IIRC, it can be had for under a hunnert' if you look around. Because it goes to 5x, it will rock on the long stuff and at 1x it will rock the house too. Good starter value.

--

Regards,

[RAZZ]

I just picked up a new 3-gun AR a few weeks ago. Its an RRA that I picked up from RB Precision in Illinois. It started off as a standard HBAR 20 inch with an A-3 flat top. I ordered it with a weaver rail gas block, free-floated bbl w/ aluminum handguard and the stainless barrel upgrade. Then sent it off to Dreadnaught industries and had them turn the bbl down to .750 under the handguard and take 2 inches off the end, as well as install their comp. I put in a JP trigger and mounted a Simmons pro-diamond on it...I couldnt be happier. Very happy with the quality on the RRA rifle and would not hessitate to get another.

[SinistralRifleman]

Most popular upper?

No two 3 Gun Rifles I have seen have ever been identical...they're as different as the people shooting them, and tailored to their personal tastes.

[blkbrd]

18" midweight JP with Cooley comp.

Light weight stainless JP carrier.

JP single stage trigger, not the drop in.

[Dave Marques]

I'll chime in as well:

I HAVE a 16" Bushy w/Smith Brake, Hogue Freefloat dissapater flattop. Its nice and light and pointable and BLASTY and moves too much for me when I pull the trigger.

Switch to a 20" JP I had sitting around collecting dust-I 'couldn't bring myself to knock it around in a 3-gun match (tactical not IPSC-style).

One day I came to my senses.......

Bottom line-the 20" is ROCK SOLID. It shoots nice too! Been doing a lot better with it than the 16".

NOTE:I shoot irons.

Haven't tried an 18" -it might be a good compromise.

If you can-ask somebody at a local match if you can try theirs-I'm sure they will let you try theirs!!!!!!!

[Fullauto_Shooter]

Thanks for all the feedback. Well, I picked up my new lowers (actually got several of them in a trade deal). I have 3 x RRAs with 2 stage NM triggers in each (each has very sweet second stage, but are just a bit creepy on the 1st stage). Also got 1 x DPMS with what must be the most horrendous trigger I've ever pulled in my life.

I'm thinking about putting a single stage JP trigger into one of the lowers (probably the DPMS since is has a really crappy trigger) and using this as my lower receiver platform. Would I be better off getting a new JP trigger or looking for a bargain-priced used one - do these JP triggers go bad with use & time? What would be reasonable price to pay for both new and used?

I'm still leaning toward an 18 inch barreled upper from probably JP or maybe Benny (still have to call these guys). I have both an F2 Comp (from Wakal) and a Mickulek Comp and am trying to decide which (if either) to use on my future upper. I know there are a million opinions on comps, but which do you consider the best tactical-legal comp for an 18 inch barrel? I've heard a lot of good stuff on the Cooley comp also. Damn it, almost too many choices.

Is there any real advantage to a stainless or low mass bolt carrier group?

Realize there are about a dozen questions in here, but I really want to make the right decision on this and I value everyones input.

Thanks

[George]

No such thing as a used trigger ;-)

There are two options for the JP. The full on trigger group which requires a smith level install, or the modular drop-in one piece system. The first type should never be moved from gun to gun, the second type, even though it can be moved from gun to gun, should be bought new just on general principle. These are metal parts that take a beating and they do wear. Probably 8-10k minimum. Would I buy a used trigger group? No way!

[Larry White]

Personaly I would call Benny Hill at 361-241-1091 Tell him what you have and what you want to do. Listen to what he has to say. Then send him that DPMS lower and get back a 3 gun AR that will do exactly what you need. Get the carbon fiber tube, stainless barrel, 18 or 20in, you choose, I dont feel enough diffrence to care. Use Bennys Rolling Thunder comp and you will be happy. Optics? The Simmons has a lot going for it for the money or step up to the new Meopta if you can.------Larry

Edited November 13, 2005 by lkytx

[TMC]

+1 on blkbrd's set up. That's exactly what I shoot and I love it.

[Sterling White]

Get an 18 or 20 in upper from JP

excellent choice in a med wt with BC comp. Can verify this with by the results in 05 and the number of rounds fired thru the gun in competition.

The investment up front is a little more but it will pay over the long haul.

Edited November 16, 2005 by gmw2b